2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 2, 260k

[Son of Amsterhammer]

Re:

Great ride by Gilbert but little doubt he was going to be caught when the crash happened. He wouldn't have held off Naesen, GVA and Sagan. I have no idea why Gilbert's team mate starting doing turns with GVA with only a 50 second gap between them.

I think it would have been really close. The finale would have been spectacular.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Does anyone have a video of Boonen crossing the line btw?

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

I dont know if they would catch him but I am really pi***d we would never know. The fact is the half minute before the crash Sagan started pulling really strong and start droping people from his wheel. I am not even sure Nasen would hold at the top of Kwaremont with Sagan and GVA. GVA lost 10-12 second because of crash itself a lot of seconds because he has lower speed up the Kwaremont since then. Van Baarle was 5-6 seconds ahead of GVA at the top of Paterberg. He lost wheels before that crash already. He would be ton of seconds behind GVA and Sagan would they speed up Kwaremont like they did before the crash, sharing pulls before Paterberg and flyied up the Paterberg. I think GVA (with Sagan) would be there at least 20-25 seconds earlier than GVA was there. I cant say if they would catch him but they were fully commited to that short before that crash. Anyway. Great deserved winner and great Ronde. But without crash would be finale hell of a more dramatic.

These were my sentiments. Crashes are part of bike racing. Still it is always unfortunate for the drama of the race, when favorites go down (and for such a wacky reason) at perhaps the defining moment. Since one likes to see the real undertakings, whether successfull or not, but never see them extinguished because of a fall.

Agreed, the drama was lost at the moment of the crash; and I'm convinced he would have been caught.
The race was poised for a fabulous final act, a work of tragic theatre; Gilbert the plucky, idealistic hero awaiting his dramatic metaphorical death in all it's brutal glory. What we got instead was like a schmaltzy Americanised romantic slapstick rewrite replete with sunsets and high-fives. I want my money back.

I feel bad for Boonen. His final time riding this race and his team make a complete shambles of the mechanical help needed. Very dignified the way he handled it I thought.

The Boonen debacle is another reason I opened with what a "wacky race." It would have been interesting to see what he could have done otherwise. He looked quite good, causing the split on the Muur, easing back when Gilbert agreed with him and Trentin to "put preasure" on the Kwaremount, etc. His job would have been to mark Sagan and GVA at that point and then not work with them in the chase, to go for a record fourth win.

Again the moment Sagan and GVA were caught too far back on the Muur, the race was played right into the hands of QS, already the best equiped team for these sort of events.

Agreed about the "slapstick rewrite" when Sagan took himself (and GVA) down :surprised: How many races has the guy lost because of his own mistakes? He seems to create his own downfalls all too frequently.

 

[IndianCyclist]

The first classics "hard man" after a long time(after Bartoli) with a win in at least one of the cobbles and the hilly monuments in this era of specialization. This should have happended long time ago though and now BMC has to eat crow. QS almost managed not to win it when Terpstra dragged GVA to Van Baarle and they made a cooperating 2 man group in a headwind
Sagan has become overconfident and arrogant this year. 2 back to back WCs can do that to u. The body check and the kingmaker statement and the Terpstra incident all highlight this. He wastes too much energy. He has to know that it will be increasingly difficult to win without a team and a last man like Devolder did for Cance and Boonen. Onto PR.
QS tactics would have definitely failed if not for the crash and Gilbert would have come 4th with a podium similar to E3. However without Gilbert they donot even have a tactic, with Terpstra & Stybar and Boonen is at the end of his career.
Sad for Boonen but he was already out of it but that time but PR awaits
Stuyven disappoints but Felline and Naesen are encouraging

 

[SafeBet]

Wonderful race once again. It seems like 2017 really can't let me down.

Nobody will probably care but I find encouraging to see 6 italian riders in the top20. After many dark years we're finally back to relevance in cobble races, with a core of young riders who can still improve.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

Yes. One of the reasons I like bike racing. There is such an element of luck. Equipment has to work perfectly, even for Boonen.

There's no way to know what a 2nd group with Sagan would have done. He was absolutely destroying his group before the crash.

Yes, he was. No doubt in my mind the second group would have caught PG within the last 4k, with Sagan's help but without it they were toast.

No way Sagan could have helped close 30+ seconds in the situation that would have developed. He would have basically just taken the place of Van Baarle, who was dropped at the point of the crash - as was Terpstra. Naessen, had he somehow managed to hang on the Paterberg, probably could have only contributed as much as Teprstra. So Sagan would have had to close 30 seconds more than Van Baarle managed to; possibly with GVA also holding a little more back than he did? No chance.

Come on, Sagan was clearly putting the hurt on the others. Surely he had more in the tank than Van Baarle. There was a chance.

OK, I concede there was a small chance. But Gilbert was still huge favourite. There are too many unknowns in the chase. Would Sagan, GVA and Naesen all get over the Paterberg together? Probably not - Sagan would probably have dropped the other two. Would they co-operate well? Would they all bury themselves to close the gap? Would they start playing games with 2-3km to go? Would Gilbert have dug a bit deeper if he knew the gap was coming down?

Just ridiculous to have 'no doubt' that Gilbert would have been caught. I'd be interested to see live odds from the bookies at the time of the crash - but I imagine Gilbert was a massive favouite. He had about 50 seconds advantage with one 400m climb remaining.

Bet365 had him at around 1.50 at the time.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

Wonderful race once again. It seems like 2017 really can't let me down.

Nobody will probably care but I find encouraging to see 6 italian riders in the top20. After many dark years we're finally back to relevance in cobble races, with a core of young riders who can still improve.

Yes, Italy is back in the game at the cobbles races (quite surprised to see Modolo also doing well in RVV btw, thought that would be too hard for hime). You lack that major contender though. Felline's an amazing rider, but I wonder if he should specialise a bit more - but in what?

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

Wonderful race once again. It seems like 2017 really can't let me down.

Nobody will probably care but I find encouraging to see 6 italian riders in the top20. After many dark years we're finally back to relevance in cobble races, with a core of young riders who can still improve.

Yes, Italy is back in the game at the cobbles races (quite surprised to see Modolo also doing well in RVV btw, thought that would be too hard for hime). You lack that major contender though. Felline's an amazing rider, but I wonder if he should specialise a bit more - but in what?

In versatility.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

Wonderful race once again. It seems like 2017 really can't let me down.

Nobody will probably care but I find encouraging to see 6 italian riders in the top20. After many dark years we're finally back to relevance in cobble races, with a core of young riders who can still improve.

Yes, Italy is back in the game at the cobbles races (quite surprised to see Modolo also doing well in RVV btw, thought that would be too hard for hime). You lack that major contender though. Felline's an amazing rider, but I wonder if he should specialise a bit more - but in what?

No contender at the moment, that's true.
It's sad that both Felline and Colbrelli never had the chance to ride cobbles before this year (they're both 27). Experience matters, so we might see some better results in the coming years. I like Felline for what he is, a true all-arounder, but I've never seen him as active as he's been in these cobble races. If he's got to specialise, perhaps this is his thing.

Anyway the biggest surprise for me was Bettiol.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Anyone know what happened to Benoot ? (DNF)

 

[May0maniac]

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Anyone know what happened to Benoot ? (DNF)

Already had a mechanical and was chasing with 100km to go, the guy just seems to have a ton of bad luck.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re: Re:

Anyone know what happened to Benoot ? (DNF)

Already had a mechanical and was chasing with 100km to go, the guy just seems to have a ton of bad luck.

I thought that he was back in the peloton about 15 km before the Muur and on the Muur I thought I saw him ahead of Sagan not far from the top. Maybe he made a big effort to get into that Gilbert group and exploded but normally he seems to be the sort of rider that keeps grinding away and gets better the longer the race goes on

 

[MagnusMagnussen]

Re: Re:

Anyone know what happened to Benoot ? (DNF)

Already had a mechanical and was chasing with 100km to go, the guy just seems to have a ton of bad luck.

I thought that he was back in the peloton about 15 km before the Muur and on the Muur I thought I saw him ahead of Sagan not far from the top. Maybe he made a big effort to get into that Gilbert group and exploded but normally he seems to be the sort of rider that keeps grinding away and gets better the longer the race goes on

Suffering with his stomach.
Only 2 Lotto riders finished the race. (Gallopin (17th) and Greipel (2Oth))

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re: Re:

Anyone know what happened to Benoot ? (DNF)

Already had a mechanical and was chasing with 100km to go, the guy just seems to have a ton of bad luck.

I thought that he was back in the peloton about 15 km before the Muur and on the Muur I thought I saw him ahead of Sagan not far from the top. Maybe he made a big effort to get into that Gilbert group and exploded but normally he seems to be the sort of rider that keeps grinding away and gets better the longer the race goes on

Suffering with his stomach.
Only 2 Lotto riders finished the race. (Gallopin (17th) and Greipel (2Oth))

Thanks. Seems to be quite a bit of sickness hanging around the peloton in recent weeks

 

[saganist]

crash debunked

https://twitter.com/Peter_SagFan/status/848827738194673664

 

[Volderke]

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crash debunked

https://twitter.com/Peter_SagFan/status/848827738194673664

great info, thanks.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

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crash debunked

https://twitter.com/Peter_SagFan/status/848827738194673664

Not debunked, just another blinkered opinion.

Slightly further down that twitter page, the frame by frame showing that in drifting from the grass back to the cobbles he may have hit the side of a higher than typical cobble looks to be the more likely explanation.

 

[Keram]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YJAP4QeV-Y From this video you could time gaps perfectly at the place of that crash. Gilbert 0:09, Sagan/GVA 1:04, Trentin 1:15, Terpstra at 1:37. He was down the road 33 sec behind GVA and he was with him at the Paterberg. GVA lost half a minute because of crash. Would be thriller at the end. By the way gps was right at 4km banner. It was 35 sec.

 

[Hellyea]

Re: Re:

crash debunked

https://twitter.com/Peter_SagFan/status/848827738194673664

Not debunked, just another blinkered opinion.

Slightly further down that twitter page, the frame by frame showing that in drifting from the grass back to the cobbles he may have hit the side of a higher than typical cobble looks to be the more likely explanation.

https://www.facebook.com/PeterSagan/videos/10155273969579467/

Do you need CSI zoom/enhance video or are you just totally blind?

 

[Inquitus]

Re:

crash debunked

https://twitter.com/Peter_SagFan/status/848827738194673664

If you look at the video supplied here, from another post you can see clearly the jack hooks Peter's left bars and causes the crash.

https://www.facebook.com/PeterSagan/videos/10155273969579467/

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Re: Re:

crash debunked

https://twitter.com/Peter_SagFan/status/848827738194673664

If you look at the video supplied here, from another post you can see clearly the jack hooks Peter's left bars and causes the crash.

https://www.facebook.com/PeterSagan/videos/10155273969579467/

It was obvious live imo but thanks for proving beyond a shadow of a doubt what happened.

Usually jackets don't fly onto people who coincidentally forget how to ride a bike in their vicinity.

 

[Laplaz]

Re:

if gilbert can solo this,i will make him my avatar

We still wait

 

[shalgo]

From those videos, a few things seem clear:

1. Sagan hooks the jacket with his handlebars, loses control, and rides up on the feet of the barriers, which brings him down.

2. Van Avermaet is riding slightly farther from the barriers than either Sagan or Naesen. He does not hit the jacket or the feet of the barriers, but goes down when he hits Sagan as the latter falls.

3. Naesen hits the same jacket that Sagan hit and independently falls--he is actually going down before Van Avermaet does.

 

[This Charming Man]

Re: Re:

The "somewhat famous cobbled" rider finished last today among those that finished the race ... his legacy is getting better and better

121. USA FARRAR Tyler DDD 11'31" 5

Luckily I wasn't drinking or I would have spilled my drink lol.

Great to see Tyler still competing. USA!

 

[This Charming Man]

Re:

Gilbert just rode the greatest classics ride in many years, comparable to Boonen's. Perhaps better? I couldn't say, I think only riders of both races would know.

Great ride by Gilbert, however after Cancelleras retirement it has become a different race. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrtEIeTULpE