2017 Tour of the Alps / Giro del Trentino 17/04 - 21/04

[silvergrenade]

Re:

DFA, the problem with Thomas is not power on isolated mountains. He already proved he can ride with the best on those. The problem is consistency and keeping that power over 3 weeks. That is usually the problem with most of the riders. That's why only a few can win these GT's.

I agree 100% with what you're saying. If he can recover well(which he hasn't shown yet) to stay with most of the good climbers, without counting Nairo Quintana, he can TT away to a podium. Anyway, the quality of the Giro field is pretty weak and the biggest names having shown nothing except Quintana

 

[DFA123]

Re:

DFA, the problem with Thomas is not power on isolated mountains. He already proved he can ride with the best on those. The problem is consistency and keeping that power over 3 weeks. That is usually the problem with most of the riders. That's why only a few can win these GT's.

I don't agree with that. Sure, the main problem is that he isn't going to last three weeks. He's almost certainly going to fade big time in the third week.

But there's also no way he can put out the same w/kg as a peak form Quintana on any given multi-mountain stage. Contador can't, Valverde can't, Froome can only at his very, very best. There's no way Thomas can hold if Quintana really goes for it. Same for Nibali as well on his best Giro form. I know there are isolated examples to suggest he can ride with the best - but there are loads more examples to suggest he can't.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

DFA, the problem with Thomas is not power on isolated mountains. He already proved he can ride with the best on those. The problem is consistency and keeping that power over 3 weeks. That is usually the problem with most of the riders. That's why only a few can win these GT's.

I agree 100% with what you're saying. If he can recover well(which he hasn't shown yet) to stay with most of the good climbers, without counting Nairo Quintana, he can TT away to a podium. Anyway, the quality of the Giro field is pretty weak and the biggest names having shown nothing except Quintana

What makes you think he'll gain a heap of time over the other GC guys in the TT's? He's a solid TT rider but nothing outstanding.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

DFA, the problem with Thomas is not power on isolated mountains. He already proved he can ride with the best on those. The problem is consistency and keeping that power over 3 weeks. That is usually the problem with most of the riders. That's why only a few can win these GT's.

I agree 100% with what you're saying. If he can recover well(which he hasn't shown yet) to stay with most of the good climbers, without counting Nairo Quintana, he can TT away to a podium. Anyway, the quality of the Giro field is pretty weak and the biggest names having shown nothing except Quintana

What makes you think he'll gain a heap of time over the other GC guys in the TT's? He's a solid TT rider but nothing outstanding.

Agreed. I could see how you could make the argument from Dumoulin - who will put 3+ minutes into Quintana and Nibali on the TTs (even though he's no serous threat to the overall either, imo). But Thomas would do well to gain a minute on the two favourites - especially given how lumpy the longer TT is. And he'd do well to gain anything on riders like Mollema, Pinot and Kruijswijk.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

DFA, the problem with Thomas is not power on isolated mountains. He already proved he can ride with the best on those. The problem is consistency and keeping that power over 3 weeks. That is usually the problem with most of the riders. That's why only a few can win these GT's.

I agree 100% with what you're saying. If he can recover well(which he hasn't shown yet) to stay with most of the good climbers, without counting Nairo Quintana, he can TT away to a podium. Anyway, the quality of the Giro field is pretty weak and the biggest names having shown nothing except Quintana

What makes you think he'll gain a heap of time over the other GC guys in the TT's? He's a solid TT rider but nothing outstanding.

I never said heaps of time but I think he's a better time trialist than any other GC guys. That's a fact. What makes me think that?

TDF 2016 stage 13. Thomas finished 7th in that particular TT and had a profile which is very similar to the profile of the Giros first TT. Only Froome and Mollema finished ahead and Mollema by 6 secs. Valverde was the next GC guy 48 secs down on G's time. Nairo was 68 secs down and Dan Martin 130 just to give you a picture.

The second Giro TT is absolutely flat and will favor him even more provided he recovers well. 29 kms which will be done in about 35 mins perhaps. He can gain a lot of time on riders like Aru, Kruiwzwik, Nibali, Landa, Pinot etc.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

DFA, the problem with Thomas is not power on isolated mountains. He already proved he can ride with the best on those. The problem is consistency and keeping that power over 3 weeks. That is usually the problem with most of the riders. That's why only a few can win these GT's.

I agree 100% with what you're saying. If he can recover well(which he hasn't shown yet) to stay with most of the good climbers, without counting Nairo Quintana, he can TT away to a podium. Anyway, the quality of the Giro field is pretty weak and the biggest names having shown nothing except Quintana

What makes you think he'll gain a heap of time over the other GC guys in the TT's? He's a solid TT rider but nothing outstanding.

Agreed. I could see how you could make the argument from Dumoulin - who will put 3+ minutes into Quintana and Nibali on the TTs (even though he's no serous threat to the overall either, imo). But Thomas would do well to gain a minute on the two favourites - especially given how lumpy the longer TT is. And he'd do well to gain anything on riders like Mollema, Pinot and Kruijswijk.

Lets see. You said Froome can gain no more than 30 secs on Quintana in the Vuelts TT because it's lumpy.
You know what happened next. IMO he can take time to all the 3 you mention. Only time will tell us. Until then, lets hope we get a cracking Giro.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

DFA, the problem with Thomas is not power on isolated mountains. He already proved he can ride with the best on those. The problem is consistency and keeping that power over 3 weeks. That is usually the problem with most of the riders. That's why only a few can win these GT's.

I agree 100% with what you're saying. If he can recover well(which he hasn't shown yet) to stay with most of the good climbers, without counting Nairo Quintana, he can TT away to a podium. Anyway, the quality of the Giro field is pretty weak and the biggest names having shown nothing except Quintana

What makes you think he'll gain a heap of time over the other GC guys in the TT's? He's a solid TT rider but nothing outstanding.

Agreed. I could see how you could make the argument from Dumoulin - who will put 3+ minutes into Quintana and Nibali on the TTs (even though he's no serous threat to the overall either, imo). But Thomas would do well to gain a minute on the two favourites - especially given how lumpy the longer TT is. And he'd do well to gain anything on riders like Mollema, Pinot and Kruijswijk.

Lets see. You said Froome can gain no more than 30 secs on Quintana in the Vuelts TT because it's lumpy.
You know what happened next. IMO he can take time to all the 3 you mention. Only time will tell us. Until then, lets hope we get a cracking Giro.

Of course, if Quintana soft pedals the final TT and corners at little over walking pace, because he has a four minute advantage, then Thomas can take more time. But he's not a TT specialist, he's a level below the best at climbing, and his highest GT placement is 15th. They hype around him is laughable at this stage - it seems based almost entirely on one impressive Tour stage two years ago and a single WT stage race victory, where his team nursed him round on the final day so he could just about hold on in a medium mountain stage.

 

[dacooley]

Nobody is hyping thomas to the level of the probable giro winner. Even if he just top 5 itll be a fantastic achievement for him. Cut the welsh some slack, ladies and gentlemen. Today almost certainly thomas took his only mountain stage victory :d

 

[TMP402]

Re:

are organisers trying to rebrand this race?
I turned on Eurosport and saw "Tour of the Alps" in program guide and thought WTF is this

Yes. You rather missed the boat on that one, brother.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Nobody is hyping thomas to the level of the probable giro winner. Even if he just top 5 itll be a fantastic achievement for him. Cut the welsh some slack, ladies and gentlemen. Today almost certainly thomas took his only mountain stage victory :d

I think, incredible as it sounds, some people are putting him among the favourites. I agree in general though, 5th would be a great achievement for him, and personally I think he would have to put in an incredible effort to even get close. I guess the bigger concern is how his 'golden boy' status within Sky will impact on Landa - a rider who, at his best, has genuine podium chances.

 

[KyoGrey]

Thomas must pray that Landa doesn't suddenly turn SuperSaiyan3 in the Giro.

The Spaniard/Basque is quite particular: He doesn't seem to have the very best attitude or proffessionalism when training, he is very irregular, but he also seems to have an ultra high climbing potential when all things fall in his place: attitude, inspiration and good "fuel".

His Giro 2015 was special in many ways. The feeling was that if the race had a 4th week, he would've won it by 15 minutes.

No doubt that he was benefiting by a very well "charged" Astaná team that year, but I tend to find a pattern with the Sky riders that were incorporated to the team in 2016. Last year they seemed to be finding difficulties with the "training methods" of the British juggernaught, but this year they seem to be adapting better...

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Nobody is hyping thomas to the level of the probable giro winner. Even if he just top 5 itll be a fantastic achievement for him. Cut the welsh some slack, ladies and gentlemen. Today almost certainly thomas took his only mountain stage victory :d

I think, incredible as it sounds, some people are putting him among the favourites. I agree in general though, 5th would be a great achievement for him, and personally I think he would have to put in an incredible effort to even get close. I guess the bigger concern is how his 'golden boy' status within Sky will impact on Landa - a rider who, at his best, has genuine podium chances.

I think it depends on your definition of Favorites
If you say Pinot is a favourite, then yes, emphatically so, I say he's a favourite. If you say Quintana , Nibali are Favorites, then no I don't think he's a favourite.
He's got in his corner a rider who's 20 levels above any GT rider at the moment, so much so that organisers have to Froome-Proof GTs. He's done 2 training camps with him. I think he can beat all others to get the 3rd spot on the podium. Mollema and he will be close though. :surprised: :lol:

 

[Vasilis]

What happened to Dennis?

 

[yaco]

Re:

What happened to Dennis?

Posted yesterday I'm surprised Dennis isn't riding races like AG and LBL - He should be focusing on TT, classics and one week stage races - Doubt he'll ever be a GT rider.

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

Landa could have a sprinted around Thomas at the end there, this Giro could be fun with these two in form. Played to perfection today.

Yeah, he let him have it clearly. Landa very very strong. Much stronger than anticipated.

Yip Landa could have easily won that stage...Thomas looks good and I'm glad Landa is coming into form

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Classic Tibopino.

Still the best French GT rider though . Not a great day, but he didn't crack either. Very close in the GC, although I can't imagine gaps in the last two stages. So Thibaut may have to go for the time bonuses, now that he has become a sprinter .

Well, Geraint was plenty fast today. Hats off to Landa.

 

[Poursuivant]

Thought Pinot looked weak but recovered well.

Thomas will have a bad day where he will ship big time in the Giro for sure. Landa on the other hand is coming into form very nicely.

 

[Singer01]

I don't think its a problem putting G up with the favourites, outside of Quintana who is clearly a cycling god, and Nibali, who has a awesome palmares and will to win. He hasn't ever shown he can 3 week, but without his crash in 15 i'd be very surprised if he hadn't placed 5-10. There is not a lot to choose between everyone below the top 2 (top 3 if SK is on last years form, top 4 if Landa is on 15 form).

he can TT, he can cover rolling terrain, and he has a diesel engine (Brad Lite).

 

[hfer07]

This was supposed to be Landa's stage win.... Damn it!!

SKY is soo Chauvinistic when designating leadership for a race....

 

[May0maniac]

Surprised to see Buchmann doing so well, I was talking to him at the start and he told me the he dislikes the cold weather and that he just can't produce the usual wattage under this kind of conditions.
Having a Co-leader that takes away most of the media attention is actually a good thing for Landa, less pressure and hype around him.
I was there at the start and after 50m I just walked into Francesco Moser, that was rather unexpected.
I talked with Zeits (he was really surprised by the fact that someone was actually cheering for him and wanted to talk to him), Buchmann(he said that he won't ride the Giro, probably once again Dauphine and TdF), Torres, Larry Warbasse (a nice guy, I didn't ask for anything and he gave me a bidon) and Pozzovivo (he was really nice, a calm, polite, soft spoken guy and I've always been a big Pozzovivo fan).
Many if the big names had to give interviews, so I wasn't able to talk to Landa.
Bernal and Dani Martinez seem to be close friends, they were talking with eachother, laughing and had a great time before the start of the race.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Surprised to see Buchmann doing so well, I was talking to him at the start and he told me the he dislikes the cold weather and that he just can't produce the usual wattage under this kind of conditions.
Having a Co-leader that takes away most of the media attention is actually a good thing for Landa, less pressure and hype around him.
I was there at the start and after 50m I just walked into Francesco Moser, that was rather unexpected.
I talked with Zeits (he was really surprised by the fact that someone was actually cheering for him and wanted to talk to him), Buchmann(he said that he won't ride the Giro, probably once again Dauphine and TdF), Torres, Larry Warbasse (a nice guy, I didn't ask for anything and he gave me a bidon) and Pozzovivo (he was really nice, a calm, polite, soft spoken guy and I've always been a big Pozzovivo fan).
Many if the big names had to give interviews, so I wasn't able to talk to Landa.
Bernal and Dani Martinez seem to be close friends, they were talking with eachother, laughing and had a great time before the start of the race.

Thanks reporter Mayo!

 

[kenk09]

This was supposed to be Landa's stage win.... Damn it!!

SKY is soo Chauvinistic when designating leadership for a race....

You don't think Thomas earned it when Landa went backwards on stage 1, and finished 26 seconds after Thomas?

 

[SafeBet]

This is actually the perfect scenario for Landa going into the Giro. Thomas as the clear leader, zero pressure on him, good shape.

 

[Robert5091]

"Thomas drops the chase Group easily" - that was the "uh ha" moment. 2 Sky riders ride away from ... everyone else!
Question is, can they keep this up for the Giro or even the rest of this race ?
(Ellisonde = "mini G"! :lol: )

 

[Vasilis]

Re:

"Thomas drops the chase Group easily" - that was the "uh ha" moment. 2 Sky riders ride away from ... everyone else!
Question is, can they keep this up for the Giro or even the rest of this race ?
(Ellisonde = "mini G"! :lol: )

I'm pretty sure they'll take the victory here, but history suggests the Giro will be a different story.