2017 Tour of the Alps / Giro del Trentino 17/04 - 21/04

[DFA123]

Re:

I really dislike this guy.

I've gone off him as well, and was warming to him as a classics rider. He's basically an average GC rider who gets the odd win and high placings because he's riding for by far the strongest team, not because he's actually that good. Fortunately, he'll get destroyed in the Giro when a couple of proper climbers and genuinely talented riders show up.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

Landa could have a sprinted around Thomas at the end there, this Giro could be fun with these two in form. Played to perfection today.

Yeah, he let him have it clearly. Landa very very strong. Much stronger than anticipated.

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

I really dislike this guy.

I've gone off him as well, and was warming to him as a classics rider. He's basically an average GC rider who gets the odd win and high placings because he's riding for by far the strongest team, not because he's actually that good. Fortunately, he'll get destroyed in the Giro when a couple of proper climbers and genuinely talented riders show up.

Nope he'll destroy all the mountain goats in the Giro. He'll stick with them on the climbs(might even drop a few of them) and slay them in the ITT's.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I really dislike this guy.

I've gone off him as well, and was warming to him as a classics rider. He's basically an average GC rider who gets the odd win and high placings because he's riding for by far the strongest team, not because he's actually that good. Fortunately, he'll get destroyed in the Giro when a couple of proper climbers and genuinely talented riders show up.

Nope he'll destroy all the mountain goats in the Giro. He'll stick with them on the climbs(might even drop a few of them) and slay them in the ITT's.

The day that Geraint Thomas can stick with Quintana on consecutive high mountain days at the Giro, will be the day that cycling dies.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Would have been funny if Landa had taken the victory, I think he could've, but Thomas played it well and attacked before his teammate did (in which case Landa would have won). This result is bad for the racing as it now means Landa won't go up the road on Monte Bondone. Hopefully, Cannondale will get aggressive.

 

[DBotero]

Re:

Landa could have a sprinted around Thomas at the end there, this Giro could be fun with these two in form. Played to perfection today.

I'm not convinced by Landa yet.His level is nowhere of what showed in that Giro.Thomas at least seems to made some improvements.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Landa could have a sprinted around Thomas at the end there, this Giro could be fun with these two in form. Played to perfection today.

I'm not convinced by Landa yet.His level is nowhere of what showed in that Giro.Thomas at least seems to made some improvements.

Yup. He's learning from the best :lol:

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

Landa could have a sprinted around Thomas at the end there, this Giro could be fun with these two in form. Played to perfection today.

I'm not convinced by Landa yet.His level is nowhere of what showed in that Giro.Thomas at least seems to made some improvements.

He seems to be coming into form,the question is if he can avoid illness. If so I think he's a better bet than Thomas in the high mountains. Thomas on this form can podium though if he avoids a bad day.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Landa could have a sprinted around Thomas at the end there, this Giro could be fun with these two in form. Played to perfection today.

I'm not convinced by Landa yet.His level is nowhere of what showed in that Giro.Thomas at least seems to made some improvements.

To be fair though, the level that Landa showed in that Giro was several levels above anything Thomas has ever shown on proper climbs. The last week was up there with Froome 2013 and Quintana at last year's Vuelta in terms of absolute dominance in the mountains. If he gets anywhere close to that level, he's much more of a threat than Thomas is to Quintana and Nibali.

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

I really dislike this guy.

I've gone off him as well, and was warming to him as a classics rider. He's basically an average GC rider who gets the odd win and high placings because he's riding for by far the strongest team, not because he's actually that good. Fortunately, he'll get destroyed in the Giro when a couple of proper climbers and genuinely talented riders show up.

Nope he'll destroy all the mountain goats in the Giro. He'll stick with them on the climbs(might even drop a few of them) and slay them in the ITT's.

The day that Geraint Thomas can stick with Quintana on consecutive high mountain days at the Giro, will be the day that cycling dies.

He might drop some time to Quintana on the climbs but not much and he'll more than make that back on the ITT's. The only way he doesn't win the Giro is if Sky drop the ball on a stage and don't realize that everyone else is 10km up the road or he forgets to wash his hands(and gets sick) and has to abandon.

 

[Der Effe]

Re: Re:

I really dislike this guy.

I've gone off him as well, and was warming to him as a classics rider. He's basically an average GC rider who gets the odd win and high placings because he's riding for by far the strongest team, not because he's actually that good. Fortunately, he'll get destroyed in the Giro when a couple of proper climbers and genuinely talented riders show up.

Nope he'll destroy all the mountain goats in the Giro. He'll stick with them on the climbs(might even drop a few of them) and slay them in the ITT's.

Most probably. In 2018 he'll win the Tour, in 2019 it will be Paris-Roubaix, Scheldeprijs, and La Flèche Wallonne and in 2020 the Nobel Prize for chemistry and literature will be his share.

G. Thomas, God amongst men.

 

[DBotero]

Re: Re:

I really dislike this guy.

I've gone off him as well, and was warming to him as a classics rider. He's basically an average GC rider who gets the odd win and high placings because he's riding for by far the strongest team, not because he's actually that good. Fortunately, he'll get destroyed in the Giro when a couple of proper climbers and genuinely talented riders show up.

I think there are only 2 of those guys in the Giro so he should do well.Too bad he ditched the Classics because he got the qualities for those.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Landa could have a sprinted around Thomas at the end there, this Giro could be fun with these two in form. Played to perfection today.

I'm not convinced by Landa yet.His level is nowhere of what showed in that Giro.Thomas at least seems to made some improvements.

He seems to be coming into form,the question is if he can avoid illness. If so I think he's a better bet than Thomas in the high mountains. Thomas on this form can podium though if he avoids a bad day.

You think Landa is better than Thomas in the high mountains? He will eat him alive if he doesn't get ill, no prisoners will be taken. But the annoying thing is the Thomas-hype this will result in from commentators.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Landa could have a sprinted around Thomas at the end there, this Giro could be fun with these two in form. Played to perfection today.

I'm not convinced by Landa yet.His level is nowhere of what showed in that Giro.Thomas at least seems to made some improvements.

To be fair though, the level that Landa showed in that Giro was several levels above anything Thomas has ever shown on proper climbs. The last week was up there with Froome 2013 and Quintana at last year's Vuelta in terms of absolute dominance in the mountains. If he gets anywhere close to that level, he's much more of a threat than Thomas is to Quintana and Nibali.

Can you prove it using data?
Geraint Thomas' LPSM ride in the TdF vs Any Mikel Landa ride of Giro 2015.
The TdF level is insane.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

I really dislike this guy.

I've gone off him as well, and was warming to him as a classics rider. He's basically an average GC rider who gets the odd win and high placings because he's riding for by far the strongest team, not because he's actually that good. Fortunately, he'll get destroyed in the Giro when a couple of proper climbers and genuinely talented riders show up.

Nope he'll destroy all the mountain goats in the Giro. He'll stick with them on the climbs(might even drop a few of them) and slay them in the ITT's.

The day that Geraint Thomas can stick with Quintana on consecutive high mountain days at the Giro, will be the day that cycling dies.

He might drop some time to Quintana on the climbs but not much and he'll more than make that back on the ITT's. The only way he doesn't win the Giro is if Sky drop the ball on a stage and don't realize that everyone else is 10km up the road or he forgets to wash his hands(and gets sick) and has to abandon.

You see very confident about a rider who is yet to show he can handle a 3 week stage race, I have my doubts about Thomas and have a feeling he and Landa will both get soundly beaten at the Giro.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I really dislike this guy.

I've gone off him as well, and was warming to him as a classics rider. He's basically an average GC rider who gets the odd win and high placings because he's riding for by far the strongest team, not because he's actually that good. Fortunately, he'll get destroyed in the Giro when a couple of proper climbers and genuinely talented riders show up.

I think there are only 2 of those guys in the Giro so he should do well.Too bad he ditched the Classics because he got the qualities for those.

I have not faith at all in Thomas's GT ambitions. He has shown absolutely nothing to me to suggest that he can finish a GT as hard as the Giro is this year, without having at least one really bad day. If he tries to go with Quintana and Nibali he'll crack big time I think. If he tries to limit his losses each day, then i think it will be more of a slow, drawn out collapse.

 

[DBotero]

Re: Re:

Landa could have a sprinted around Thomas at the end there, this Giro could be fun with these two in form. Played to perfection today.

I'm not convinced by Landa yet.His level is nowhere of what showed in that Giro.Thomas at least seems to made some improvements.

To be fair though, the level that Landa showed in that Giro was several levels above anything Thomas has ever shown on proper climbs. The last week was up there with Froome 2013 and Quintana at last year's Vuelta in terms of absolute dominance in the mountains. If he gets anywhere close to that level, he's much more of a threat than Thomas is to Quintana and Nibali.

Don't know,Thomas looked decent in 2015 TDF.Let's see if he can keep it at a high level for the whole Giro.Would be a surprise but might be a possibility.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

I really dislike this guy.

I've gone off him as well, and was warming to him as a classics rider. He's basically an average GC rider who gets the odd win and high placings because he's riding for by far the strongest team, not because he's actually that good. Fortunately, he'll get destroyed in the Giro when a couple of proper climbers and genuinely talented riders show up.

Nope he'll destroy all the mountain goats in the Giro. He'll stick with them on the climbs(might even drop a few of them) and slay them in the ITT's.

The day that Geraint Thomas can stick with Quintana on consecutive high mountain days at the Giro, will be the day that cycling dies.

He might drop some time to Quintana on the climbs but not much and he'll more than make that back on the ITT's. The only way he doesn't win the Giro is if Sky drop the ball on a stage and don't realize that everyone else is 10km up the road or he forgets to wash his hands(and gets sick) and has to abandon.

What is your reference for this assessment?
This race?

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

I really dislike this guy.

I've gone off him as well, and was warming to him as a classics rider. He's basically an average GC rider who gets the odd win and high placings because he's riding for by far the strongest team, not because he's actually that good. Fortunately, he'll get destroyed in the Giro when a couple of proper climbers and genuinely talented riders show up.

I think there are only 2 of those guys in the Giro so he should do well.Too bad he ditched the Classics because he got the qualities for those.

I have not faith at all in Thomas's GT ambitions. He has shown absolutely nothing to me to suggest that he can finish a GT as hard as the Giro is this year, without having at least one really bad day. If he tries to go with Quintana and Nibali he'll crack big time I think. If he tries to limit his losses each day, then i think it will be more of a slow, drawn out collapse.

Same was said for Richie Porte. He was arguably the second best in the TdF 2016

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Landa could have a sprinted around Thomas at the end there, this Giro could be fun with these two in form. Played to perfection today.

I'm not convinced by Landa yet.His level is nowhere of what showed in that Giro.Thomas at least seems to made some improvements.

To be fair though, the level that Landa showed in that Giro was several levels above anything Thomas has ever shown on proper climbs. The last week was up there with Froome 2013 and Quintana at last year's Vuelta in terms of absolute dominance in the mountains. If he gets anywhere close to that level, he's much more of a threat than Thomas is to Quintana and Nibali.

Can you prove it using data?
Geraint Thomas' LPSM ride in the TdF vs Any Mikel Landa ride of Giro 2015.
The TdF level is insane.

I imagine the power was pretty similar on those. Indeed, I think Thomas can compete well on a one climb stage or a one off mountain stage like PSM or Plateau de Beille when the gradients are steady and the tempo is high but consistent. ALso why he has done well in some medium difficulty week long stage races.

But I've seen absolutely nothing to suggest he can do that consistently on multiple mountain stages, in a race where there is one about every other day on average. Let alone destroying the field on the hardest stages in the final week on consecutive days, like Landa did. Landa's ceiling is way, way higher from what I've seen; and Sky would be very foolish to go all in behind Thomas.

 

[Scarponi]

Re: Re:

I really dislike this guy.

I've gone off him as well, and was warming to him as a classics rider. He's basically an average GC rider who gets the odd win and high placings because he's riding for by far the strongest team, not because he's actually that good. Fortunately, he'll get destroyed in the Giro when a couple of proper climbers and genuinely talented riders show up.

I think there are only 2 of those guys in the Giro so he should do well.Too bad he ditched the Classics because he got the qualities for those.

I have not faith at all in Thomas's GT ambitions. He has shown absolutely nothing to me to suggest that he can finish a GT as hard as the Giro is this year, without having at least one really bad day. If he tries to go with Quintana and Nibali he'll crack big time I think. If he tries to limit his losses each day, then i think it will be more of a slow, drawn out collapse.

Same was said for Richie Porte. He was arguably the second best in the TdF 2016

Richie at his best though was in the top 5 climbers in the world

 

[Lupi33x]

are organisers trying to rebrand this race?
I turned on Eurosport and saw "Tour of the Alps" in program guide and thought WTF is this

 

[DBotero]

Re: Re:

Landa could have a sprinted around Thomas at the end there, this Giro could be fun with these two in form. Played to perfection today.

I'm not convinced by Landa yet.His level is nowhere of what showed in that Giro.Thomas at least seems to made some improvements.

To be fair though, the level that Landa showed in that Giro was several levels above anything Thomas has ever shown on proper climbs. The last week was up there with Froome 2013 and Quintana at last year's Vuelta in terms of absolute dominance in the mountains. If he gets anywhere close to that level, he's much more of a threat than Thomas is to Quintana and Nibali.

Can you prove it using data?
Geraint Thomas' LPSM ride in the TdF vs Any Mikel Landa ride of Giro 2015.
The TdF level is insane.

I imagine the power was pretty similar on those. Indeed, I think Thomas can compete well on a one climb stage or a one off mountain stage like PSM or Plateau de Beille when the gradients are steady and the tempo is high but consistent. ALso why he has done well in some medium difficulty week long stage races.

But I've seen absolutely nothing to suggest he can do that consistently on multiple mountain stages, in a race where there is one about every other day on average. Let alone destroying the field on the hardest stages in the final week on consecutive days, like Landa did. Landa's ceiling is way, way higher from what I've seen; and Sky would be very foolish to go all in behind Thomas.

They go with 2 leaders,they can't be that stupid to bet everything on Thomas.The problem for them is still Landa who should normally climb at a class above any version of Thomas.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Same was said for Richie Porte. He was arguably the second best in the TdF 2016

Richie at his best though was in the top 5 climbers in the world

Exactly. The issue isn't just that Thomas will almost certainly have a bad day. It's also that, even if he climbs to his best consistently throughout the race, and somehow avoids a bad day, he'll still lose several minutes to Quintana and probably to Nibali as well. Because he's a significantly weaker climber. Porte's issue was just recovery. Thomas's problems are recovery AND a considerably lower level than the best riders in the race.

Landa is a better comparison with Porte. Because, at his best, he has also shown he can challenge and beat the best riders in a GT. But consistency and peaking has been his main problem.

 

[Escarabajo]

DFA, the problem with Thomas is not power on isolated mountains. He already proved he can ride with the best on those. The problem is consistency and keeping that power over 3 weeks. That is usually the problem with most of the riders. That's why only a few can win these GT's.