2017 Worlds BERGEN, NORWAY, RR ELITE, SUN 24th 277KM!

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

Because winning justifies whatever tactic a rider decided to use.

Cycling is not chess. It's not just about tactics. The route made it impossible for a strong man to attack. You said it and as you said, it should not be as valuable as a classic won after attacking.

 

[Blanco]

One more thing. What else Sagan should have done? Attack, make the final selection, pull "smart" riders to the line to be outsprinted by these "smart" riders on the line?
Todays win is the result of the negative racing of all "smart" guys whole year.

Spot on! And I'm expecting him to continue this trend next year. It will be much less exciting, but it will bring him more wins.

 

[Tank Engine]

Re: Re:

P.S.: What was Kwiatkowski's plan to win this race?

Whatever deity created him seems to have decided "1 day out of every 10 you shall have the talent of Michele Bartoli and the other 9 you shall be Benjamin Noval"

Maybe he wasn't at 100% today, otherwise he would have been more prominent on the final climb. However, if you take into account his wins this year and how he rode in the tour, that ratio is way higher.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

Aside from all the polemic Sagan business, is there anyone who doesn't love Alaphilippe? I've yet to meet them

I cant say I do.....I am kinda indifferent to him...He is a good rider but meh ..He is no Sagan, Valverde,Nibali, Contaodr or even Kwaito ...He is no Froome or Cancellera or Gilbert or Cavandish or Greipel. He is no Doumulin or Kiry or Pinot .....you get my drift

Pinot this guy has something else but I can't see what it is

 

[Jungle Cycle]

We discussed all spring why Sagan attack and everyone stay on his wheel. he`s even kind of gave up 1 race to prove a point and now he is a wheel sucker??

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Aside from all the polemic Sagan business, is there anyone who doesn't love Alaphilippe? I've yet to meet them

I cant say I do.....I am kinda indifferent to him...He is a good rider but meh ..He is no Sagan, Valverde,Nibali, Contaodr or even Kwaito ...He is no Froome or Cancellera or Gilbert or Cavandish or Greipel. He is no Doumulin or Kiry or Pinot .....you get my drift

I get it, you only like easy rides on winning bandwagons.

No ..WRONG !
Allaphillipe may be a nice guy ut in terms of a rider he is not in the above class

Nothing to do with wining bandwagons...idiot comment really

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Uh...it's cycling. Virtually the entire sport is shaped around "wheelsucking" if this was an example of it. This was just normal racing - a sprint finish. This wasn't like a Gerrans-Cancellara at MSR situation.

Indeed it wasn't. Gerrans took turns with Cancellara. But a guy who considers Sagan a marvel does not deserve to be talked to anyway.

A so-called cycling fan who can't appreciate someone who accomplishes something never seen before doesn't deserve to be talked to. You're so blinded by your dislike that your posts just become a joke. I'd have preferred to have GVA win as well, but he did exactly nothing before the sprint - same as Sagan.

The only thing we might agree on is that the better races will take place in a few hours but you're so crotchety that you'll probably boycott them because they're not in Europe.

 

[Andy262]

Re: Re:

Oh right, I took it more as a criticism of the course - that a rider could win without doing anything until the final km. If that's a criticism of Sagan then it's completely ridiculous - all attacking would have done is thrown away any chances on that course.

Exactly. That's why it bothers me so much to call Sagan, or anyone else a wheelsucker when a rider wins.

Agreed. The winner should always be exempt from the wheelsucking tag. If anyone should be labelled like that, it should be the riders who were too passive and still didn't win - although on a course like that it was fair enough from all the favourites I think.

Totally agree, nothing wrong with riding for the sprint. I see the wheelsucker epithet as about people usually in smaller breaks who won't work, contribute or take risks. Just expect rivals to drag them to the finish.

 

[Asero831]

Why did Denmark chased?
Are they the "friends" Sagan is referring to in his post race interview?

 

[yaco]

The actual race finished quicker than the fastest predicted finish time - Rider's made it as hard as possible on that course - It was a good rave and I have no complaints - Next year people will complain even though it's a mountainous route - We should be applauding Sagan's performance - This is one rider who usually gets it right in a sprint. .

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Because winning justifies whatever tactic a rider decided to use.

Cycling is not chess. It's not just about tactics. The route made it impossible for a strong man to attack. You said it and as you said, it should not be as valuable as a classic won after attacking.

Well yes, but I think that is a different argument. A poor route devalues the win overall imo, but it doesn't devalue the tactics of the guy who won on it day. I'd happily label the route as poor because it encourage wheelsucking, but wouldn't call Sagan out for being a wheelsucker because he won on the route where that was the only tactic available to him.

 

[cineteq]

Re:

Some posters forget he was sick and out of the race with few Kms to go. Sorry, the actual word is "overachiever".

I'm not hating on Sagan, but I don't think this win in particular can be described as anything but "underwhelming", especially since a third win is historical. I'm not saying he should have done anything differently - it was a perfect race, tactically.

 

[avanti]

Good job Sagan.
But what does his third consecutive win say about worlds route selection? Perhaps routes should differ significantly year to year - a mountainous route one year followed by a flat route followed by a rolling route.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Cort... Cort... Cort... what were you doing?
He probably wouldn't have won if he'd waited for the sprint, he might not even have gotten a medal, but a top-10?

Cort is a bit quicker than Matthews in a sprint and about the same level as Trentin - Waited and he could have come between 3rd to 6th.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

I guess nobody cares all that much what you're saying.

So what? I'm free to say whatever I want s long as it fit with the rules of the forum. Put on ignore if you don't like my posts.

Love to, how do I go about that?

Edit Profile>>Friend and Foes>>add to Foes

 

[Oude Geuze]

Awesome race and great win by Sagan. He obviously wasn't on top form, but he raced extremely smart, he was invisible all day and barely made it to the sprint to take his 3rd consecutive WC. Perfect pacing.
It's always cool to see the best rider in the rainbow jersey, one that can always contest the win in almost any race.

 

[portugal11]

Good job Sagan.
But what does his third consecutive win say about worlds route selection? Perhaps routes should differ significantly year to year - a mountainous route one year followed by a flat route followed by a rolling route.

A flat route should give prison...

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

I see the wheelsucker epithet as about people usually in smaller breaks who won't work, contribute or take risks.

If the wheelsucker stays in peloton wheels he contributes more?

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Boom, and there is the point. Its good tactics if you like a rider and wheelsucking if you dont.

No, it's wheelsucking either way.

Its also good tactics either way. The people saying how great Sagan was today would be spitting feathers if it was Gerrans who won today.

The site would have crashed for sure. Even Matthews winning would have been a lot worse. Matthews must be sick of looking at Sagan's back wheel by now.

Thing is, at least Matthews tried to go with an attack, he just didn't have the legs - for all we know that was what cost him in the sprint.

 

[yaco]

Re:

So why did Gilbert or GVA not go earlier ...even with Allaphillipe.....and same for Kwaito

What were they waiting for

Love Kiry...he was down the back most of race and next thing he catches Allaphillipe and drops him
Pity the TV missed he great attack...well done that man

Has it occurred to you that they didn't have the legs - Matthews tried to go and quickly punctures, and did a good to recover to contest the final - Riders are not robots.

 

[Tank Engine]

Good job Sagan.
But what does his third consecutive win say about worlds route selection? Perhaps routes should differ significantly year to year - a mountainous route one year followed by a flat route followed by a rolling route.

It also says that Sagan is a versatile rider. In the last 3 years, we've had a flat course and 2 rolling courses (1 with a hilly finish, the other with a flat finish). Sagan has won them all.

Next year, it will be mountainous, so the policy on route selection is not far from your proposal.

 

[gunara]

Re:

Why did Denmark chased?
Are they the "friends" Sagan is referring to in his post race interview?

I've never thought of that but wouldn't be too surprised if it's true, not neccesarily team Denmark, though. I just can't believe Sagan with no team would put all his luck on a sprint, on how all his rivals' team chasing, without anyone else he could personally rely on, this race is too important for him, there must be some more assurance.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Well maybe GVA & Gilbert could not follow Allaphillipe but they still could have gone on an attack

I Kiry could do it ...surely these could

BTW Sagan has a great personality...he is kind & fun & a good person...some people on here talk sh**

Attack when you don't have the legs - Are you serious ?

 

[franic]

Re: Re:

I think it's time the WC was valued less than the other monuments. Certainly lower than PR , RVV or LBL. It's basically been an easy version of Milan Sanremo these last few years. Kudos to Sagan for winning, but the fact that he can still put out such a strong sprint compared with the other monuments, shows how relatively easy it has become.

WC should always be valued higher, no matter how hard the race was. You will get a hard race next year.

I don't want a stupidly hard race like next years. The WC should aim to find the best one day racer imo - so it should always give chances somewhere to all the one day specialists.

I want to see the likes of Sagan, GVA, Alaphilippe, Valverde, Matthews, Kwiatkowski, Martin and others all battling each other on a course which offers something for everyone. Not a bunch sprint or a ridiculously steep climb deciding the race.

Problem is that apart from the Flemish classics and maybe CSS finds the best racer. It's all reduced bunch sprints or uphill sprints.

True. But I think a profile something similar to Strade Bianche, even without the gravel, but with WC distance and maybe with an easier final climb could work well. Or the Rio Olympic course with a slightly easier final climb - that was great.

edit. Also I don't agree that most big one day races end in bunch sprints or uphill sprints. Lombardia doesn't, SB doesn't, Amstel didn't on this new course. Only MSR, FW and LBL have done in recent years.

The course actually was very interesting because Alaphilippe and Moscon could have definitely arrived (as it has happened in every other race so far this year) if Alaphilippe did not attack Moscon on the cobbled section. Also I wonder how it would have unfolded in a proper Norwegian rainy day like we had in 1993.

At least this year it was so terrible as it was in Copenhagen or Doha.

 

[Richeypen]

Re:

Why did Denmark chased?
Are they the "friends" Sagan is referring to in his post race interview?

Why wouldnt they chase? Its a race and there were 3 riders up the road