2018 Innsbruck World Championship Men's Road Race - 259km

[Red Rick]

According to Mollema, people in the top 20 had to get off their bikes on the last climb

Unbelievable race design.

 

[Derry]

Re:

According to Mollema, people in the top 20 had to get off their bikes on the last climb

Unbelievable race design.

https://twitter.com/RenaudB31/status/1046413840764817408

Zeits

 

[Koronin]

Re:

According to Mollema, people in the top 20 had to get off their bikes on the last climb

Unbelievable race design.

:surprised: :surprised: Wow is the best I can say to that.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: 2018 Innsbruck World Championship Men's Road Race - 259k

Pfff please, this whining about Sagan is such BS. He did it very well. Not drawing the attention toward himself. He just did the job of congratulating the riders and giving the jersey to Valverde. All in a very decent respectful way.

Some people must find negativity in everything.

If it's got to the point where I can't even say what I was saying up there without it being "whining" and "BS", you may as well ban me now. Talk about whitewashing - I don't think I was even critical of him.

He was not referring to you I assume. I do not think you should feel offended.
Actually, your statement towards him and the podium ceremony was quite fair and stopped real BS going on here.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Should by all means include such climbs in Pais Vasco and Tirreno Adriatico, but not the Worlds.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

I just read the post-race comments from the Belgians. They had the plan to anticipate but when the finale started, the tempo never dropped for a moment and was generally too high to make something happen. A tough race of attrition, which was obvious from the images. And of course guys like Wellens and Benoot just didn't have the legs.

This also answers the critics from clueless posters as Valv. Piti and DFA wanting attacks from the NL squad when it was clearly not possible. And the 'healf-hearted' attempts were actually 100% attempts. See also Hermans saying he had to go deep into red to answer the attacks from Kruijswijk and Oomen.

But whatever. DFA and Valv. Piti would've done better. I'm sure

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

What I took out of the race is Dumoulin is an under-rated climber by the general cycling community, the cycling media and possibly by TD himself.

He has showed again and again that he can climb. His last three grand tours have proved that. Why would he be underrated ? He just doesn't have the uphill kick that someone like Valverde has or Yates.

How many times do you hear or read that TD has to make big gains in the ITT because he will lose time in the mountains - The fact is TD loses little time in the mountains and on a variety of gradients.

I would say it's the opposite; you read that the Yateses, Quintanas, Pinots and Bardets have to put time into Dumoulin in the mountains that they will lose in the TTs. Froome's escape to Bardonnecchia aside, when was the last time any GC contender put a big gap on Dumoulin in the mountains? Probably when Astana cracked him in the 2015 Vuelta?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

I just read the post-race comments from the Belgians. They had the plan to anticipate but when the finale started, the tempo never dropped for a moment and was generally too high to make something happen. A tough race of attrition, which was obvious from the images. And of course guys like Wellens and Benoot just didn't have the legs.

This also answers the critics from clueless posters as Valv. Piti and DFA wanting attacks from the NL squad when it was clearly not possible. And the 'healf-hearted' attempts were actually 100% attempts. See also Hermans saying he had to go deep into red to answer the attacks from Kruijswijk and Oomen.

But whatever. DFA and Valv. Piti would've done better. I'm sure

You really aren't understand the critique we are putting forth are you? What they did on the last two laps on Igls they should have done earlier, 1 or 2 laps maybe. What did Kelderman and Mollema do? My main criticism of their tactics is they sat 6 (!) riders, passively, at the bottom of the last climb waiting to get slaughtered. Looked like some of them hunted personal glory. It doesn't look so bad because Dumoulin was great, but that wasn't really expected. Then you are getting all whiny and personal about it.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I just read the post-race comments from the Belgians. They had the plan to anticipate but when the finale started, the tempo never dropped for a moment and was generally too high to make something happen. A tough race of attrition, which was obvious from the images. And of course guys like Wellens and Benoot just didn't have the legs.

This also answers the critics from clueless posters as Valv. Piti and DFA wanting attacks from the NL squad when it was clearly not possible. And the 'healf-hearted' attempts were actually 100% attempts. See also Hermans saying he had to go deep into red to answer the attacks from Kruijswijk and Oomen.

But whatever. DFA and Valv. Piti would've done better. I'm sure

lol, wow, they managed to put the mighty Hermans into the red. And who would have thought the Belgian team, filled with absolutely no climbers would have found it tough going.

It was yet another tactical masterclass from the egocentric Dutch today. They weren't 100% attempts, because they would not have been able to stay with the peloton afterwards if they were. Six riders in the closing stages of the race - yet none of them ever really in contention for the win. Surely you fanboys should be getting used to dealing with these regular fails more gracefully by now, rather than throwing toys out of the pram

 

[tobydawq]

Regarding the podium cameo by Sagan, he said the following of the situation to Danish TV:

"I went up there because I'm proud to have been world champion three times and because I'm very happy to pass the jersey on to Valverde. It was a beautiful moment, also for me, as I think he will defend the jersey excellently the coming year. I don't think I'm at his level. He's successful with everything he does in his career, and I think it's very, very good for him and cycling that he got the jersey."

Very nice words.

 

[Andy262]

Re: Re:

According to Mollema, people in the top 20 had to get off their bikes on the last climb

Unbelievable race design.

https://twitter.com/RenaudB31/status/1046413840764817408

Zeits

That video really reinforces how tough that last climb was. And that's some way below the top as Moscon is still in the wheels.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

What you fail to understand is that of those 6 guys, 4 were at their limit, of which 3 still tried to attack.

Attacking is only possible if you can actually go faster than the pace in the peloton. Do you understand that simple concept or is that above you?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

What you fail to understand is that of those 6 guys, 4 were at their limit, of which 3 still tried to attack.

Attacking is only possible if you can actually go faster than the pace in the peloton. Do you understand that simple concept or is that above you?

Dont tell me they couldn't animate/attack earlier in the race when the peloton was still +100 riders yet could sit in the final group of 25 riders or whatever before the last climb.

 

[Red Rick]

Mollema said the pace was high for the entire first 200km because the first group got 20 minutes.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Glorified hill climb championships. Like one of those Vuelta stages, just a bit longer. Disappointed but not surprised

?????????????

Give me 5 reasons why the inclusion of that climb improved that race?

I'll give you one, because the strongest man won!!!

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

What you fail to understand is that of those 6 guys, 4 were at their limit, of which 3 still tried to attack.

Attacking is only possible if you can actually go faster than the pace in the peloton. Do you understand that simple concept or is that above you?

Dont tell me they couldn't animate/attack earlier in the race when the peloton was still +100 riders yet could sit in the final group of 25 riders or whatever before the last climb.

Indeed. Of course they could have attacked harder and more often than they did. Undoubtedly they would have blown up trying to stay away as they were chased down, and been dropped hard when they were caught. But that's the whole point of sacrificing riders to burn the domestiques of other team mates early in the race, and make the race less controlled. It's tactics 101 for a team full of diesel climbers in a hilly one day race.

Having six diesels climbers left at the bottom of the final steep climb, while the faster favourites were delivered to the bottom by their doms without working at all, clearly shows a tactical fail by the Dutch.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

What you fail to understand is that of those 6 guys, 4 were at their limit, of which 3 still tried to attack.

Attacking is only possible if you can actually go faster than the pace in the peloton. Do you understand that simple concept or is that above you?

Dont tell me they couldn't animate/attack earlier in the race when the peloton was still +100 riders yet could sit in the final group of 25 riders or whatever before the last climb.

You just confirmed you don't understand. Great, that at least explains to me your thought process.

It doesn't work like that. Just because 90 guys are still in the group means the pace is easy. Same mistake people used to make in Amstel Gold Race. Thinking why nobody attacks early and then at the Cauberg surprised that some favorites drop early or do nothing in the final sprint either.
The worlds men often follow the same patron. Nobody can attack because the pace is high. But people like you don't understand that and think the pace is easy.

Yeah sorry. No. :lol:

 

[the delgados]

Re: 2018 Innsbruck World Championship Men's Road Race - 259k

Sorry to interrupt, but I just want to chime in by saying race organizers did a fantastic job of including every aspect that makes bike racing interesting to watch.
The course was amazing, as was the surrounding scenery. The course included pretty much every exciting aspect of one day and grand tour races. Very well done.
The crowds added an element of excitement to the race. They came out in droves, and it was cool to see so many people embrace the race and cheer the riders on without making fools of themselves--e.g. running around with horns on their head and ruining it for everyone.
The only schitty thing about the entire spectacle was the winner of the elite men's road race. I'm totally biased, but it would have been awesome to see Woods win.
Also, I like the idea of having the previous winner present the jersey to his/her successor.
Reminds me of the Masters, minus the awful Green Jacket.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Mollema said the pace was high for the entire first 200km because the first group got 20 minutes.

That literally makes no sense. Unless the first group caught a train or something.

Not sure why some Dutch fans are having such a hard time accepting their tactical flaws today. I mean, its far from the first time its happened with the likes of Dumoulin and Mollema.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Mollema said the pace was high for the entire first 200km because the first group got 20 minutes.

That literally makes no sense. Unless the first group caught a train or something.

Not sure why some Dutch fans are having such a hard time accepting their tactical flaws today. I mean, its far from the first time its happened with the likes of Dumoulin and Mollema.

It makes every bit of sense.

That's how cycling works.

If the break needs to get caught or brought back, the pace is higher than when it's not so far away.

Do you know why the peloton sometimes lets a break dangle at a minute in the last 20km of a sprint stage. Because people will attack if they bring it back with 15km to go.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Couldn't watch the finale due to family festivities. I'll watch the final 30k later tonight. Congrats to Valverde. I honestly never really believed in Alaphilippe, as i thought the previous climbs would take away too much of his chances. Happy a few Belgians didn't make a complete fool of themselves. Too bad some (as well as the coach) did.

Mollema said the pace was high for the entire first 200km because the first group got 20 minutes.

That literally makes no sense. Unless the first group caught a train or something.

Not sure why some Dutch fans are having such a hard time accepting their tactical flaws today. I mean, its far from the first time its happened with the likes of Dumoulin and Mollema.

It makes every bit of sense.

That's how cycling works.

If the break needs to get caught or brought back, the pace is higher than when it's not so far away.

Do you know why the peloton sometimes lets a break dangle at a minute in the last 20km of a sprint stage. Because people will attack if they bring it back with 15km to go.

Obviously, he's taking about the part where the break gets 20 minutes. Not the part where the peloton needs to close the 20 minute gap.

 

[Blanco]

Re:

Regarding the podium cameo by Sagan, he said the following of the situation to Danish TV:

"I went up there because I'm proud to have been world champion three times and because I'm very happy to pass the jersey on to Valverde. It was a beautiful moment, also for me, as I think he will defend the jersey excellently the coming year. I don't think I'm at his level. He's successful with everything he does in his career, and I think it's very, very good for him and cycling that he got the jersey."

Very nice words.

He spoke just like he rides, classy!

 

[Valv.Piti]

I know how these races work, but I simply don't buy the "pace is too high, cant do anything other than sit back". At least try to establish a bigger group with some of the other big nations to throw the race a curveball. They had lots and lots of manpower to do that.

Whatever, lets agree to disagree then. I thought they could definitely have done more, you don't - lets leave it at that. They sure was lucky Dumoulin is such a great athlete that he still produce a very nice result.

 

[Derry]

Wel basically this comes down to only Mollema and probably Kelderman in my opinion.
- Poels, never involved.
- Weening, wasn't the guy for attacks and kept close to the leaders
- Tolhoek, I was surprised to even see him in the final. He has made some remarkable progression this year, some nice attacks as well.
- Oomen, a bit the same like Tolhoek. He is just 23 and he attacked a few times at the Iglis climb.
- Kruijswijk, he attacked two times at the second to last climb of the Iglis and then he attacked again on the last climb of the Iglis. He just isn't punchy enough to really crush such an elite group.
- Kelderman, He afterwards said he tried to get Dumoulin in the best position (in which he failed since Dumoulin started the final climb way back). He could have done more.
- Mollema. Waited all day for a 12nd place. He really should have tried something different. Maybe somehting like Valgren.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Wel basically this comes down to only Mollema and probably Kelderman in my opinion.
- Poels, never involved.
- Weening, wasn't the guy for attacks and kept close to the leaders
- Tolhoek, I was surprised to even see him in the final. He has made some remarkable progression this year, some nice attacks as well.
- Oomen, a bit the same like Tolhoek. He is just 23 and he attacked a few times at the Iglis climb.
- Kruijswijk, he attacked two times at the second to last climb of the Iglis and then he attacked again on the last climb of the Iglis. He just isn't punchy enough to really crush such an elite group.
- Kelderman, He afterwards said he tried to get Dumoulin in the best position (in which he failed since Dumoulin started the final climb way back). He could have done more.
- Mollema. Waited all day for a 12nd place. He really should have tried something different. Maybe somehting like Valgren.

I will admit.

Letting Kelderman position you is the worst tactical fail I have ever come across in my life.

And I really want to know how much time Dumoulin lost by his crap positioning cause he was 17s back after Moscon got dropped and closed it all the way down.