2020 Tour de France route rumors

[Breh]

I only have so much time on a year to complain about Tour routes

Thank god

 

[yaco]

Strange that if you only have one ITT then it's not in the middle of the race - Vuelta seems to always get this right.

 

[Nirvana]

Just put a pan flat 55/60 kms TT between Marennes and La Rochelle instead of the flat stage between Ile d'Oleron and Ile de Re and then there is no problem in having the travesty up to the Planche.

 

[guncha]

Oui

It will be horrible if TDF winner will not be tested for his ITT skills. I think Pyrenees was great this year because climbers were forced to attack after ITT.
100% climbers tour without normal ITT will be over after first MTF if one climber dominates. If race are tight riders will likely attack a few km before finish because there will always be next day.

 

[guncha]

That would put Pinot out of contention.

Pinot did great ITT this year, just 49 seconds down the winner. He lost much more time in flat Albi stage.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Pinot did great ITT this year, just 49 seconds down the winner. He lost much more time in flat Albi stage.

The poster I responded to was talking about a flat ITT. The Pau ITT wasn't flat.

 

[guncha]

The poster I responded to was talking about a flat ITT. The Pau ITT wasn't flat.

If Pinot is in top form it would not matter too much whether ITT is flat or rolling.

 

[Red Rick]

If Pinot is in top form it would not matter too much whether ITT is flat or rolling.

Much more important if the ITT is after a rest day or not for Pinot.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Much more important if the ITT is after a rest day or not for Pinot.

Yes, TTs or really important mountain stages after a rest day are a well known problem for Pinot.

 

[gavia88]

unfortunately..........

2nd Pyrenees stage full of original ideas (after the 1st pyrenees stage already being so original as well), it is already a year ago we saw the Tourmalet, Soulor, Aubisque combination in one stage...definitely waiting any longer to repeat it would be unbearable

https://www.francebleu.fr/sports/cy...u-tour-de-france-2020-en-occitanie-1570740081


Les étapes dans la région

• 2 juillet / 6e étape : arrivée au Mont-Aigoual
• 3 juillet / 7e étape : Millau-Lavaur
• 4 juillet / 8e étape : Cazères-Loudenvielle
• 5 juillet / 9e étape : Pau-Laruns

 

[Red Rick]

unfortunately..........

2nd Pyrenees stage full of original ideas (after the 1st pyrenees stage already being so original as well), it is already a year ago we saw the Tourmalet, Soulor, Aubisque combination in one stage...definitely waiting any longer to repeat it would be unbearable

https://www.francebleu.fr/sports/cy...u-tour-de-france-2020-en-occitanie-1570740081


Les étapes dans la région

• 2 juillet / 6e étape : arrivée au Mont-Aigoual
• 3 juillet / 7e étape : Millau-Lavaur
• 4 juillet / 8e étape : Cazères-Loudenvielle
• 5 juillet / 9e étape : Pau-Laruns

Ohwell.

Could be worse.

 

[houtdffan]

Velonews is now saying that the tour will stay in the Alps after stage 2, with a MTF on stage 4 at Orcières-Merlette

https://www.velonews.com/2019/10/tour-de-france/tour-de-france-2020-route-rumors_501569

 

[gavia88]

other sources say that the stage is 100% in the pyrenees-atlantique, which means the stage should stay west of the Aubisque.

Laruns through Marie Blanque??

 

[Red Rick]

other sources say that the stage is 100% in the pyrenees-atlantique, which means the stage should stay west of the Aubisque.

Laruns through Marie Blanque??

Col de Soudet + Marie Blanque?

 

[gavia88]

would not be to bad. This is not better than Tourmalet, Soulor, Aubisque, but at least an option I can't remember that already has been done (finish close after Marie Blanque). And a long time ago that Marie Blanque had an important place in the route. But most likely nobody will risk an attack on Soudet in this phase of the tour.

 

[Red Rick]

would not be to bad. This is not better than Tourmalet, Soulor, Aubisque, but at least an option I can't remember that already has been done (finish close after Marie Blanque). And a long time ago that Marie Blanque had an important place in the route. But most likely nobody will risk an attack on Soudet in this phase of the tour.

Doesn't really matter. Soudet would be enough so that they don't hit the Marie Blanque with a full peloton

 

[roundabout]

At least it's not an MTF, so 20 km of action is possible.

On the other hand, the stage is likely to be rather light, the difficult part of M-B is 4km long and a route is likely to suffer from a mountain OD which may limit the action.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Col de Soudet + Marie Blanque?

They could climb Col d'Issarbe from the N instead and then climb the final part of Soudet W before Marie-Blanque.

Not a main road, but I could see them going for it if the road is in decent condition.

http://www.rakpirineos.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/la-pieere-por-issarbe.jpg

 

[ice&fire]

would not be to bad. This is not better than Tourmalet, Soulor, Aubisque, but at least an option I can't remember that already has been done (finish close after Marie Blanque). And a long time ago that Marie Blanque had an important place in the route. But most likely nobody will risk an attack on Soudet in this phase of the tour.

It was done in the 2016 Vuelta. The day after was much more entertaining

 

[perico]

Pailheres could be used in combination with Plateau de Bonascre. Usually, that is a very good combo.

West of Aubisque, the selection is limited to border climbs like Larrau and Pierre Saint Martin, and the Basque climbs (Bagargui, Arnosteguy, etc) on the narrow roads close to the Spanish border. East of Peyresourde, there are some more options. Using Mente closer to the end of the stage and making it more relevant, could be an option. Using the series of climbs of Col de la Core, Latrape, Agnes, Port de Lers could also be an option. And Pailheres-Bonsacre or Beille as a stage finish.

Except for these climbs, the options are limited. They manage to find Prates de Albi this year, but I don't think there are many similar unused climbs out there.

In general, I'm therefore pretty sure that the mountain stages in the Alps are further away from their "full potential" than in the Pyrenees.

super

I think most important reasons that we see the same climbs in the Pyrenees over and over again are that:

-the area around Luchon is willing to pay (the most) and on regular basis. So, it's more or less a deal between this area and the ASO to visit the area on regular basis. The area gets the exposure they want and ASO has guaranteed a good amount of money on their bank account. Keeping this relationship saves ASO from difficulties in finding cities in the Pyrenees to host a stage in future as well.
-secondly, ASO thinks is a good idea to overexposure their most famous climbs. I don't know, but maybe they think, with Tourmalet in it, we sell our product the best and at least people will turn on their tv.
-other regions in the Pyrenees probably don't have the money or are not willing to pay the money to host a stage
-Road quality/ small roads is some of an issue as well in the most Western and Eastern parts of the Pyrenees.

What surely not is the case is that there are no other options. West of the Aubisque are a lot of extremely steep Bask climbs, barely used or even completely ignored by ASO. The Vuelta recently visit the area a few times, with for exemple Gesink winning the stage to the Aubisque, with some Bask cols or this year with a transition stage. But even the Vuelta doesn't make the best out the possibilities here. Issue indeed is that some of those climbs have extremely small roads.

But also around the Tourmalet there are unused cols, like the Spandalles, Couradque, 2nd site of Luz Ardiden, Hospice, ect. Or cols not visit for a long time like Superbagneres. More central cols like cols like Menté, Core, Guze-Neiget or Crouzette never gets a really important place in the race neither.

Even when visiting Andorra the tour normally uses Arcalis instead of the many great options Andorra is offering. More to the east, like the area around font-Romeu and east of the Port de Pailheres the tour is even never visiting, while there are quite some options there (don't expect HC climbs in that area though).

So, no, the Pyrenees don't offer the possibilities of the Alps, but definitely the lack of creativity the ASO is showing on yearly basis is not necessary. The Pyrenees do have more than Luchon, Peyresourde and Tourmalet, more areas with interesting climbs as well as unused climbs in the most visited area.

When you think about it, we haven’t been to Luz Ardiden in 9 years (and it was a yearly fixture in the late 1980s and was beginning to be referred to as the Pyrenean Alpe at the time). Superbagneres it has been 30 years. That’s just sad when Tourmalet connects directly to Luz and Bales to Superbagneres.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

unfortunately..........

2nd Pyrenees stage full of original ideas (after the 1st pyrenees stage already being so original as well), it is already a year ago we saw the Tourmalet, Soulor, Aubisque combination in one stage...definitely waiting any longer to repeat it would be unbearable

https://www.francebleu.fr/sports/cy...u-tour-de-france-2020-en-occitanie-1570740081


Les étapes dans la région

• 2 juillet / 6e étape : arrivée au Mont-Aigoual
• 3 juillet / 7e étape : Millau-Lavaur
• 4 juillet / 8e étape : Cazères-Loudenvielle
• 5 juillet / 9e étape : Pau-Laruns

I was actually trying to do a Tour for the Race Design Thread that ticked all the modern ASO tropes but still managed to innovate, and I had a Pau-Loudenvielle stage in that - which was actually an intermediate stage ahead of two significant mountain stages, with the easy side of Aspin and the Col de Lançon the only climbs. Ironically, ASO themselves are breaking with the rules I set to make an ASO-type route next year, with their early mountains. The idea behind my route was to fill all the ASO tropes.

• Backloaded mountains? Check.
• Overseas start? Check.
• Only one long ITT? Check (I also put a mid-length one in, to make it more like 2008 in distribution of TT mileage)
• At least one MTF at an iconic summit? Check.
• Pau and Luchon as stage hosts? Check.
• Maurienne valley? Check.
• At least one short mountain stage? Check.
• At least three of the most common summits in the Tour's history? Check.

Even despite hamstringing myself thus, I still cobbled together a route that I was both happy with and felt would be innovative even given that it was travelling through fairly well-trodden areas, and not all that badly paced.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I was actually trying to do a Tour for the Race Design Thread that ticked all the modern ASO tropes but still managed to innovate, and I had a Pau-Loudenvielle stage in that - which was actually an intermediate stage ahead of two significant mountain stages, with the easy side of Aspin and the Col de Lançon the only climbs. Ironically, ASO themselves are breaking with the rules I set to make an ASO-type route next year, with their early mountains. The idea behind my route was to fill all the ASO tropes.

• Backloaded mountains? Check.
• Overseas start? Check.
• Only one long ITT? Check (I also put a mid-length one in, to make it more like 2008 in distribution of TT mileage)
• At least one MTF at an iconic summit? Check.
• Pau and Luchon as stage hosts? Check.
• Maurienne valley? Check.
• At least one short mountain stage? Check.
• At least three of the most common summits in the Tour's history? Check.

Even despite hamstringing myself thus, I still cobbled together a route that I was both happy with and felt would be innovative even given that it was travelling through fairly well-trodden areas, and not all that badly paced.

Can you link the page on the race design thread that you did this on? Would be interested to see it.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

The previously rumored Chalets d'Iraty (Col Bagargui) stage finish will likely feature in the 2021 Tour instead:

Tour de France : une arrivée à Iraty ? - France Bleu

Deux ans après le contre-la-montre Saint-Pée-sur-Nivelle / Espelette, le Pays Basque pourrait de nouveau voir le Tour de France. Iraty est candidate pour accueillir une arrivée. La station tient la corde... pour 2021, selon les informations de France Bleu Pays Basque.

www.francebleu.fr

The Laruns via Tourmalet and Aubisque stage is mentioned once again. Hard to imagine that the local media got it wrong.

 

[OlavEH]

The previously rumored Chalets d'Iraty (Col Bagargui) stage finish will likely feature in the 2021 Tour instead:

Tour de France : une arrivée à Iraty ? - France Bleu

Deux ans après le contre-la-montre Saint-Pée-sur-Nivelle / Espelette, le Pays Basque pourrait de nouveau voir le Tour de France. Iraty est candidate pour accueillir une arrivée. La station tient la corde... pour 2021, selon les informations de France Bleu Pays Basque.

www.francebleu.fr

The Laruns via Tourmalet and Aubisque stage is mentioned once again. Hard to imagine that the local media got it wrong.

The Tour is so centered around a total of 6-8 climbs in the Pyrenees and Alps. Are there really no other towns/regions/ski resorts other places in the Pyrenees or in the Northern/Southern Alps willing to pay to host a stage finish? The only innovations in the Tour routes happens on stages outside the Alps and Pyrenees.

 

[tobydawq]

The Tour is so centered around a total of 6-8 climbs in the Pyrenees and Alps. Are there really no other towns/regions/ski resorts other places in the Pyrenees or in the Northern/Southern Alps willing to pay to host a stage finish? The only innovations in the Tour routes happens on stages outside the Alps and Pyrenees.

So, how many times had Val Thorens hosted a finish before this year?