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Giro d'Italia 2021 Giro d'Italia, Stage 4: Piacenza - Sestola 186 km

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    Votes: 37 53.6%

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    Votes: 32 46.4%
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
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Luthor said:
Never mess with Lefevere. We all knew Remco would be preferred but still a *** move. In the end Remco also lost 10' so karma I guess.
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Clearly you don't understand what happened. Almeida was done. When you get dropped that early in the climb and in the first week, chances are you're not going to bounce back, regardless of whatever teammate waits for you.

They chose to bet on Remco at this point. They were not trying to drop or distance Almeida further, they were trying to keep a steady pace up, which suits Remco more. If the pace dropped, that would mean there would have been attacks left and right with plenty of accelerations. This would be in favor of guys like Landa, Yates, Carthy, but not of Evenepoel who is a tempoclimber, and on top of that, is still looking for his best form. So Karma? Hardly, Remco lost a whole lot less time because they decided to ride like that, not the other way around.
 
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tobydawq

tobydawq

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Red Rick said:
2020 was the only 2020 year in the last decade tho
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Yeah, but the statement still rings true to me. Especially because of the rain, some riders may have performed worse today than their level would enable them to another day.

I think Almeida and Bennett are the only ones we can discard now (at least from the batch of contenders in my head).

And what are we thinking about Ciccone? Why did he attack today? There was no tangible trophy in sight for him. Is he secretly mounting an assult on the GC? Yesterday's attack was surely for a stage win but today's seemed like something more.
 
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Luthor

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Clearly you don't understand what happened. Almeida was done. When you get dropped that early in the climb and in the first week, chances are you're not going to bounce back, regardless of whatever teammate waits for you.

They chose to bet on Remco at this point. They were not trying to drop or distance Almeida further, they were trying to keep a steady pace up, which suits Remco more. If the pace dropped, that would mean there would have been attacks left and right with plenty of accelerations. This would be in favor of guys like Landa, Yates, Carthy, but not of Evenepoel who is a tempoclimber, and on top of that, is still looking for his best form. So Karma? Hardly, Remco lost a whole lot less time because they decided to ride like that, not the other way around.
Click to expand...
DQS paced a lot today and they knew even from Tirreno Almeida doesn't like rainy conditions. They went with "Almeida is the leader" to ease off Remco's pressure. The pace set by Bahrain was really high at the end and they dropped Almeida by a bit.

DQS didn't send any rider at the back to give him a hand and when Ciccone attacked, DQS went to impose a high steady pace which made sure Almeida would never have a chance. They thought the same as you "He is done". We saw a lot of bounces back in the Giro, last year had plenty. They could've tried to limit the losses but they chose not to.

If the roles would be reversed do you think DQS would've let Remco alone and say "He is done" or they would've drop someone to give him some help? Would've they maintain a high pace afterwards and make Remco a dom for Almeida?

Almeida didn't got the "GC treatment" from DQS even though he might have been done anyway as you say. The gap is probably also higher because the guy kinda gave up. But I think for everything he has done at DQS he deserved at least a bit of support. If he wouldn't have left I think they would but now, they obviously would rather want him as a domestique for Remco until the end.

The attacks from GC weren't substantial today, the only guys that lost contact were the ones having a bad day( Almeida, Bennett). Attacks left and right? Doubtful, most of them were miserable and Bahrain still had a good team there. The only certain attack was Landa. It was more like a test to see is actually in good form and can't be let go. Remco wouldn't have lost a lot of time anyway imo, he still had good enough legs that he was the one following the others.
 
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topcat

topcat

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Clearly you don't understand what happened. Almeida was done. When you get dropped that early in the climb and in the first week, chances are you're not going to bounce back, regardless of whatever teammate waits for you.

They chose to bet on Remco at this point. They were not trying to drop or distance Almeida further, they were trying to keep a steady pace up, which suits Remco more. If the pace dropped, that would mean there would have been attacks left and right with plenty of accelerations. This would be in favor of guys like Landa, Yates, Carthy, but not of Evenepoel who is a tempoclimber, and on top of that, is still looking for his best form. So Karma? Hardly, Remco lost a whole lot less time because they decided to ride like that, not the other way around.
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Yes, this was blatantly obvious. Leadership crisis over.
 
Red Rick

Red Rick

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tobydawq said:
Yeah, but the statement still rings true to me. Especially because of the rain, some riders may have performed worse today than their level would enable them to another day.

I think Almeida and Bennett are the only ones we can discard now (at least from the batch of contenders in my head).

And what are we thinking about Ciccone? Why did he attack today? There was no tangible trophy in sight for him. Is he secretly mounting an assult on the GC? Yesterday's attack was surely for a stage win but today's seemed like something more.
Click to expand...
I think Ciccone is a possible top 5 finisher and he just wanted to make most of a stage/circumstances that suited him, and it probably fit with team tactics/had the OK from Nibali.

Didn't consider Bennett a contender myself. Wasn't expecting Almeida to top 5 either, but him dropping out of contention immediately is quite a surprise to me.
 
L

Luthor

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Red Rick said:
I think Ciccone is a possible top 5 finisher and he just wanted to make most of a stage/circumstances that suited him, and it probably fit with team tactics/had the OK from Nibali.

Didn't consider Bennett a contender myself. Wasn't expecting Almeida to top 5 either, but him dropping out of contention immediately is quite a surprise to me.
Click to expand...
Ciccone is kinda wasting a lot of effort in these early stages, it's gonna be interesting how he is gonna perform in 3rd week. I'm glad he does race offensively so early tho, makes the stages much better.
 
tobydawq

tobydawq

Nov 16, 2013
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Red Rick said:
I think Ciccone is a possible top 5 finisher and he just wanted to make most of a stage/circumstances that suited him, and it probably fit with team tactics/had the OK from Nibali.

Didn't consider Bennett a contender myself. Wasn't expecting Almeida to top 5 either, but him dropping out of contention immediately is quite a surprise to me.
Click to expand...

My batch of favourites was quite broad, admittedly, (more than 15 guys) but given the fact that Bennett has never really had the chance to go for it himself in a GT after having resolved his side stitch issue, I would give him the benefit of the doubt. And maybe, just maybe, the rain could explain his loss today? It was still so big, though, that it currently seems insurmountable.
 
gunara

gunara

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I always think that Giro and Vuelta 1st GC stage tend to tells less than the Tour one. At the Tour sometimes even how the GC favorites deals with and position themselves in early sprinters' stage indicate something. So won't read too much into most - not all - happennings today. Trek's leadership is still not as obvious as DQS. Will anyone stop Bernal if his back hold up? Who's better between Vlasov and Carthy. Which Yates we saw today. Can Landa do better than that. How long De Marchi or Dombro will hang on to what they occupy. Why Moscon and Bettiol were even up there etc..
 
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