Giro d'Italia 2023 Giro d'Italia, Stage 13: Borgofranco d’Ivrea – Crans Montana, 199 km (Friday, May 19th)

[Netserk]

I'd put it slightly differently. In fact, this is what I like about Pinot, he cares about more than just the scoreboard, and you can see it in the way he rides and the way he carries himself.

However, when you don't care to play the game you ruin your chances. Had he just paced that climb to the kite at a few watts below threshold he probably would've destroyed both of them in the sprint had Rubio even managed to hang on. Or had he just paced Cepeda a bit on the climb after that last attack. Or followed Rubio's wheel instead of Cepeda's in the sprint. But yeah, he got into an entertaining but inconsequential tiff with Jefferson and ended up undermining a massive shot at a stage win and a few seconds in the GC as well. Cycling is a game but it's also a show, and I'll take entertaining but self-sabotaging over pragmatic and uber-competitive every day of the week. You just have to live with things not working out in the end.

Yes, all games are nested games.

And while you could emphasise the meta-level of the show, I think today was more about the mesa-level of the feud. But going a level up or down usually goes together, eh. It's quite hard to align strategies across levels.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Ineos has the Sky-vibe and JV likes it. It's going to be a long and boring third week. Roglic must be sure he wins the ITT on day 20. Hopefully he checks his helmet this time.

Will laugh my ass off if Almeida or Even Caruso ends ups winning the whole thing by being great on the Tre Cime Tappone and bossing the MTT.

 

[Netserk]

Me and my dad had the same discussion during the stage, I also tipped Rubio to outsprint everyone in the end (he did outsprint Pogacar on a Matajur MTF in the u23 ranks). I don't blame Pinot, but the team should have calmed him down and told him to just ride tempo and outsprint the others. The other option is to make a deal with Rubio, you both gain as much time as possible on the gc and fight in out for the stage win in a sprint.

In the end the lack of panache from the gc group was an even bigger disgrace than the tappone mutilato. Shades of 2012...

To me it looked like Croix de Coeur would be better as a pass the other way around, with the nicer road as the descent. Frankly I don't blame anyone for not taking any major risks on that descent when it's wet and there's a decent amount of gravel on the road.

In Tour des Stations, Croix de Cœur is indeed climbed from the other side.

 

[Mayomaniac]

In Tour des Stations, Croix de Cœur is indeed climbed from the other side.

Looking at the road conditions that does make more sense.

 

[saunaking]

Didn't stop Cepeda pinot and Rubio attacking each other a billion times

well, look what it got the attackers.

 

[staubsauger]

Not to mention Nacer...

Bouhanni is back in action at Rund um Köln this weekend!

 

[saunaking]

I honestly wonder if anything would have gone differently with Remco and Tao still there. My guess is probably not, but maybe Ineos would have tried to ride a bit more offensively.

You can't have a 70km stage or whatever it was and expect GC attacks unless the final is truly super-hard/steep

 

[Lequack]

Even on Angliru something nothing happens.

 

[saunaking]

I can't be happy about any stage Rubio is winning as he is for me one of the most unlikeable riders in the peleton. Always playing the others in breakaway stages n ever committing to anything. You could say he is clever as Pinot is unclever in this scenarios but honestly he didn't deserve the stage win in my eyes. Heartbroken for Thibaud who also could go for a Top 6-7 placing in the end and the maglia azzura which would be a nice ending to his Giro story.

Short stage no one really interested in the favourite group. I don't understand why Jumbo didn't test Thomas they had the numbers and Kuss seems to be clearly the best domestique left. No we have a few days until the next big test and fortunes could change. It seems like a missed chance. Also to distance a few more riders. The Top 15 are all relatively close and allthough no team has real numbers in the fight for the win you can't really let any move go with one of those riders.

the Giro is unfortunately really not delivering at all this year even last year there was more action. Kämna and Dunbar looked strong there in the end. would have been interesting if they could have followed if the climb was harder,

Can't be heartbroken about Pinot. I mean his tactics were flat out STUPID. 55 failed attacks and runs out of gas at the end and loses from a group of 3 where I think he was clearly the fastest on paper. And nobody coming from behind. If he just rode with the other 2 his chances would be highest by far

 

[saunaking]

we know how important that final gt victory was for Pinot.

um, not as important as "sticking it" to Cepeda

 

[staubsauger]

Can't be heartbroken about Pinot. I mean his tactics were flat out STUPID. 55 failed attacks and runs out of gas at the end and loses from a group of 3 where I think he was clearly the fastest on paper. And nobody coming from behind. If he just rode with the other 2 his chances would be highest by far

Well. He could've worked with Cepeda. But Cepeda simply wouldn't work at all. He already refused to work in the valley where Rubio actually did his share of workload in the wind. As he could move up the general classification still.

Still, those fruitless attacks no. 3 - 5 were completely unnecessary from Pinot. Like I said Rubio didn’t even bother to follow or counter those capers anymore. That wasn't just defensively, but simply intelligent. He was a little lucky in the end of course.

If you want to win, you need to gamble. Pinot lost. Rubio won.

Cepeda did nothing and was rewarded with nothing.

 

[Netserk]

Well. He could've worked with Cepeda. But Cepeda simply wouldn't work at all. He already refused to work in the valley where Rubio actually did his share of workload in the wind. As he could move up the general classification still.

Still, those fruitless attacks no. 3 - 5 were completely unnecessary from Pinot. Like I said Rubio didn’t even bother to follow or counter those capers anymore. That wasn't just defensively, but simply intelligent. He was a little lucky in the end of course.

If you want to win, you need to gamble. Pinot lost. Rubio won.

Cepeda did nothing and was rewarded with nothing.

Cepeda had a proper attack of his own near the finish, it was his best bet.

 

[staubsauger]

Cepeda had a proper attack of his own near the finish, it was his best bet.

He simply opened the sprint too early. The attack before was quite good to be honest.

But yeah. That was his only option as well. You're right.

If anybody up there could have know that Rubio has a decent kick as well it should have been Cepeda.

 

[Rob5091]

Ride of the day? Leknessund dropped only 7 seconds to the Maglia Rosa. Chapeau to Rubio for "keeping his head when all around him were losing theirs".

The biggest excitement for the stage might well be if it goes ahead.

Seems I was right apart from Pinot's attempt to win the stage.

​

 

[Mayomaniac]

Well. He could've worked with Cepeda. But Cepeda simply wouldn't work at all. He already refused to work in the valley where Rubio actually did his share of workload in the wind. As he could move up the general classification still.

Still, those fruitless attacks no. 3 - 5 were completely unnecessary from Pinot. Like I said Rubio didn’t even bother to follow or counter those capers anymore. That wasn't just defensively, but simply intelligent. He was a little lucky in the end of course.

If you want to win, you need to gamble. Pinot lost. Rubio won.

Cepeda did nothing and was rewarded with nothing.

Like I said, I don't blame Pinot, I blame the people in the team car for not telling him to calm down and not let emotions dictate his tactics.

 

[Nick2413]

I’ll be off the grid for a week and a half so this was my last chance to watch a stage for this Giro. What a note to go out on. Hoping the ship gets righted for everyone who will be there watching g till the bitter end.

 

[shadowrider]

I don't understand the team tactics of INEOS. A few days ago INEOS was by far the strongest team with 5 riders in the top 15. But they didn't attack. Meanwhile, they lost Hart. Sivakov is no a threat anymore because of his crash and loss of time in the general. But still, they have Arensman and De Plus in the top ten. Today, at least Arensman had to attack to let the Jumboteam do the work. In the final, once Arensman would have caught up (?), De Plus could have attacked. But now it was the inverse. De Plus did almost all the work, seconded by Arensman. The result, De Plus spend a lot of energy, Arensman lost time. INEOS has completely gave away the teamadvantage. Arensman is now too far in the GC. De Plus has to stay with Thomas next week and the Jumboriders had another restday. INEOS, instead of being the strongest team, will be outflanked by a more and more homogenuous Jumbo. Kuss, Bouwman, Gloag and even Dennis had a difficult start of the Giro, but are becoming stronger. I think Thomas will be isolated next week. Roglic will take tens of seconds in the last few hundreds of meters of Monte Bondone, maybe Val di Zoldo, and Cime de Lavaredo. Enough to control the climbing TT at the second last day.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Like I said, I don't blame Pinot, I blame the people in the team car for not telling him to calm down and not let emotions dictate his tactics.

If they've been taught by Madiot, then I'm not sure staying calm in such a final is one of their strengths.

 

[houtdffan]

The babies didn't want to race today

Compromise on short stage avoids Giro d'Italia rider strike and chaos

'It's us, the riders, who go out there and put our bodies on the line' says race leader Geraint Thomas

www.cyclingnews.com

Race leader Geraint Thomas confirmed that if RCS Sport and the UCI officials had not agreed to cut the stage, the riders could have gone on strike... One well-informed source suggested to Cyclingnews that if relations had spiralled out of control, the Giro d’Italia could have even struggled to reach the finish in Rome.

This never would have happened in the Lance and Ullrich era (likely not during the Contador era either). They raced in bad weather. They climbed multiple mountains in a given day. These babies won't race the mountains in rain

 

[titan31]

The babies didn't want to race today

Compromise on short stage avoids Giro d'Italia rider strike and chaos

'It's us, the riders, who go out there and put our bodies on the line' says race leader Geraint Thomas

www.cyclingnews.com

Race leader Geraint Thomas confirmed that if RCS Sport and the UCI officials had not agreed to cut the stage, the riders could have gone on strike... One well-informed source suggested to Cyclingnews that if relations had spiralled out of control, the Giro d’Italia could have even struggled to reach the finish in Rome.

This never would have happened in the Lance and Ullrich era (likely not during the Contador era either). They raced in bad weather. They climbed multiple mountains in a given day. These babies won't race the mountains in rain

God, I hope he doesn't win. Or even be on the podium.

 

[hfer07]

Thanks to the 3 heros that made this stage exciting, because everything else was painfully boring TBH
kudos to Rubio for winning the stage & playing smart
kudos to Pinot for his not wise Courage & tenacity to attack
kudos to Cepeda for such amazing ride, even when it didn't end up in win

as far as the GC, I sort of knew Roglic & Co were just going to seat back while letting INEOS do the work and see where they stand as far as team strength, which turned out not to be good at all if G is hoping to rely on it to widen the mere 2 seconds on Roglic.....

 

[staubsauger]

I don't understand the team tactics of INEOS. A few days ago INEOS was by far the strongest team with 5 riders in the top 15. But they didn't attack. Meanwhile, they lost Hart. Sivakov is no a threat anymore because of his crash and loss of time in the general. But still, they have Arensman and De Plus in the top ten. Today, at least Arensman had to attack to let the Jumboteam do the work. In the final, once Arensman would have caught up (?), De Plus could have attacked. But now it was the inverse. De Plus did almost all the work, seconded by Arensman. The result, De Plus spend a lot of energy, Arensman lost time. INEOS has completely gave away the teamadvantage. Arensman is now too far in the GC. De Plus has to stay with Thomas next week and the Jumboriders had another restday. INEOS, instead of being the strongest team, will be outflanked by a more and more homogenuous Jumbo. Kuss, Bouwman, Gloag and even Dennis had a difficult start of the Giro, but are becoming stronger. I think Thomas will be isolated next week. Roglic will take tens of seconds in the last few hundreds of meters of Monte Bondone, maybe Val di Zoldo, and Cime de Lavaredo. Enough to control the climbing TT at the second last day.

I'm not sure anybody apart from Bouwman is going to be of much usage. Unless Kuss awakes from hibernation.

But like you said. Roglic only needs to attack in the last 3 kilometres and win a handful of seconds plus time bonuses. No need to be in pink before the Bondone stage. Let Ineos control it until then. Towards Zoldo Alto it's easy to control with Dennis & Oomen in the valley. Towards the 3 Merlons Jumbo probably lets a group go away and then Roglic just attacks immediately after the Misurina lake.

With Tao gone apparently Ineos doesn't know what to do apart from controlling the race. I just don't see Thomas path to victory.

They should've forced Jumbo to work by sending up Arensman indeed.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

You guys are far too focused on the route having to be as originally announced, rather than just focusing on the racing we're gonna get.

Me? Well, I won't be able to watch all of it, because I have work, but then as soon as I can, I'll turn on my streaming-service, and watch every last bit of it!

These years time is really not on my side (high work load spread over the hours of the day combined with serious illness in the family and closest related family and besides small children to take care of, now mostly alone after my wife ran into a more serious concussion months ago) and this Giro edition, I've watched most stages on VOD belated signal with eyes and ears closed until then, regretfully mostly as fast forward. But this stage I would have loved to sacrific any sleep to watch entire stage.
Would have loved an '88 Gran Sasso, but now we ended up with even worse than the 2011 Monte Crostis stage (of which at least still had the Zoncolan MTF)

However, I will grant you that far that a bike race is a bike race and it is up to the riders to make it worth watching and I think they did their part today (at least some of the riders did).
Edit: that was many edits, quite s*cks on my phone writing now.

 

[houtdffan]

God, I hope he doesn't win. Or even be on the podium.

Thomas proved today he is not, nor will he ever be a champ

I wish Remco and Pog were here. They could tell the babies to just drop out. Not like they'd finish within 5 minutes of them anyways

 

[houtdffan]

I'm not sure anybody apart from Bouwman is going to be of much usage. Unless Kuss awakes from hibernation.

But like you said. Roglic only needs to attack in the last 3 kilometres and win a handful of seconds plus time bonuses. No need to be in pink before the Bondone stage. Let Ineos control it until then. Towards Zoldo Alto it's easy to control with Dennis & Oomen in the valley. Towards the 3 Merlons Jumbo probably lets a group go away and then Roglic just attacks immediately after the Misurina lake.

With Tao gone apparently Ineos doesn't know what to do apart from controlling the race. I just don't see Thomas path to victory.

They should've forced Jumbo to work by sending up Arensman indeed.

Will the babies playing pro cyclists even allow the Bondone and Tre Cime stages go ahead? That is too much climbing, especially if there is a drop of rain for them. It might also be too long and interfere with their nap time