Giro d'Italia 2023 Giro d'Italia, Stage 9: Savignano sul Rubicone – Cesena 35 km ITT (Sunday, May 14th)

[Riek s]

There are some epic climbs coming up from Stage 13 on. I don’t believe a team can decide to “let someone go” or not. Perhaps Ineos will have that option if they decide that either G or Tao needs to follow Remco or Roglic I’d they launch. But that this race has already been hard on some days, it might be a more a matter of who can hang on and who can’t.

I think where team strategy comes in more is whether to make a mtn stage hard from the beginning, or whether to send several domestiques in early breaks to be there to help at the end of a stage.

Sure, what I mean is that if Roglic attacks and gets away, Ineos won't let Remco ride . They will take over to keep in contention. E.g I think it is no longer everyone vs Remco.

 

[rokovski]

I mean he won two stages and is almost 1 minute ahead of everyone. Everyone else would kill to be in his position right now.

Yes, everyone else, but not him after showing weakness in yesterdays stage and today after superiority in first TT.

 

[Rackham]

i'm sorry, You make it seem as if the Roglic fans weren't saying this the whole Vuelta? (and afterwards)

I think it's good to remind people, especially when Evenepoel is racing with a knock in this Giro.

It's also a fact Rog's inherent potential was overlooked in most discussions about the Giro 2023 over the winter until he started this season strongly. He's the most underrated rider in GT racing IMO & half of that comes from his unfortunately spectacular defeats (whether crashes or la Planche) which have been memed into a collective belief he's not got what it takes versus the world's best.

But there's a good reason Pog chased him down in the TdF last year & IMO (just my opinion) he's back at his best. Which means it'll take a Pogacar-esque climbing performance (or some crash or echelon or bad luck incident) to deny him here in this Giro.

 

[Bolder]

Thankfully, the statements that matter are made by the legs. Who cares what comes out of the mouth.

The one thing that Tao said is that new TT position rules have made it easier for him to put down power.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Now that Roglic is not that far behind, he will likely rely on his uphill spring to take time bonuses and maybe make one long range attack. The Ineos Duo will rely on the train to make sure that the time gaps aren't big and maybe sprint and then give everything in the last TT. Remco doesnt have the team so he will follow the Ineos train/twins. If he can hang on, then in the TT he can reverse any losses. Now it is a 4 horse race. I dont think Roglic or ineos want to finish 2nd

 

[Sciatic]

Sure, what I mean is that if Roglic attacks and gets away, Ineos won't let Remco ride . They will take over to keep in contention. E.g I think it is no longer everyone vs Remco.

I see what you’re saying, and yeah I think that’s possible. Will also depend on whether Sivakov is still there towards the top of those climbs.

 

[staubsauger]

Given the outcome today and yesterday can we actually bet that Tao and G won't be the strongest in the Alps? I do agree with your point about Roglic though, however, Monte Lussari is much more of a climbing TT than PdBF was and likely the strongest on Tre Cime will be the strongest there. So if Roglic has worked on climbing I don't think he has the incentive to do something more than a 2 km stomp

Thomas? Yes!
Tao? Closed that gap surprisingly easy yesterday!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Sure, what I mean is that if Roglic attacks and gets away, Ineos won't let Remco ride . They will take over to keep in contention. E.g I think it is no longer everyone vs Remco.

In case Evenepoel recovers, he'd best play coy as long as possible. Tactically it suits him that everybody thinks he is weakened. They will not assume he will ride after every attack. Others will do their share of the work.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Also, can someone tell me why Vlasov wears a hijab under his TT helmet?

 

[Rackham]

Thomas? Yes!
Tao? Closed that gap surprisingly easy yesterday!

It was a cat 4 climb.

The real climbing is yet to come. We don't even know whether Jay Vine & Almeida could be better climbers than the Ineos pair. All we know is the anticipated gaps are nowhere near as big as most predicted between Evenepoel & the rest (myself included).

I'd totally made my peace with Remco having a 2 minute lead in GC on the first rest day. So the last 24 hours have been a big, big surprise. But that doesn't change the fact the real Giro hasn't even started yet.

 

[dobrien]

Sorry that's completely BS. You have to be completely asleep in the last 2 years to not see Remco on this level. He completely destroyed the field in multiple hard one days races & won a GT beating Roglic and peak form Mas on multiple hard stages without having a completely shitty day. He had some of the objectively best climbing performances that were ever measured. Maybe you can make up a multi-tier s-tier of climbers based on some characteristics (Pogacar likes cold & rainy, Vingegaard the heat, Remco worse on bad/gravely roads...) but in the end those 4 all have their claim to be there at the top and they are head and shoulders above the rest of the field. I don't know who should have even a remote claim of coming close. Maybe Vine and Ayuso one day but objectively they aren't there yet.

We will have to wait and see; he has not yet faced anything like that which awaits him in the 3rd week of this race. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of his, but this is the one place I have my doubts. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The one team that will still blow up the big mountain stages is Bahrain. Caruso said that he's stronger than in 2021 and looking forward to stage 13 and stage 19, because they suit him the most. Between him, Haig and Santi Buitrago we'll see fireworks.
Also, Vine is a total wildcard for me in the high mountains, no idea what to expect. Regarding Bora, I actually rate Kämna higher than Vlasov in the high mountains/at altitude.

 

[Rackham]

I don't know what were you all thinking. It's all going as expected. Kelly talking about 15-20s difference between Remco and Roglic at the end...he doesn't know what he is talking about

It turns out he really did know what he was talking about.

I guess that's why Sean Kelly is a professional TV consultant whilst the rest of us are mere forum dwelling commentators.

 

[carolina]

Also, can someone tell me why Vlasov wears a hijab under his TT helmet?

Every bora and soudal rider does that. It's a specialized aero thing.

 

[Lequack]

Ganna's Covid is having a good effect on the rest of Ineos that's for sure.

 

[Didinho]

Every bora and soudal rider does that. It's a specialized aero thing.

It's mostly for being sure the UFO helmet stays in place. A small aero profit inside the helmet also indeed, if you have floppy ears or so. Lampaert won the yellow jersey without it.

 

[dobrien]

The one team that will still blow up the big mountain stages is Bahrain. Caruso said that he's stronger than in 2021 and looking forward to stage 13 and stage 19, because they suit him the most. Between him, Haig and Santi Buitrago we'll see fireworks.
Also, Vine is a total wildcard for me in the high mountains, no idea what to expect. Regarding Bora, I actually rate Kämna higher than Vlasov in the high mountains/at altitude.

Big shame Vine lost so much time the other day; I think he is a guy who could do some real damage the 3rd week. Sky is the limit for him; depends on what UAE wants from him with respect to any role riding for Almeida as well.

 

[BR2]

It turns out he really did know what he was talking about.

I guess that's why Sean Kelly is a professional TV consultant whilst the rest of us are mere forum dwelling commentators.

Kelly in general is a very good expert, but let's not pretend all the "experts" that are on tv know better in general. I swear I have heard as many stupid takes from them as here in the forum.
And honestly that gap was not expected beforehand, people like Remco himself expected a different outcome I think.

 

[rokovski]

😆

https://twitter.com/x/status/1657765723156930561

View: https://twitter.com/writebikerepeat/status/1657765723156930561?t=xsX_HNZziO-Rn0KcJBvjNg&s=19

 

[Rackham]

Kelly in general is a very good expert, but let's not pretend all the "experts" that are on tv know better in general. I swear I have heard as many stupid takes from them as here in the forum.
And honestly that gap was not expected beforehand, people like Remco himself expected a different outcome I think.

In all fairness I think a lot of us here are often blinded by fandom, or even just getting caught up in the moment.

The basic lesson we need to learn here is an ITT further into a GT is often closer, i.e. for example something we can all agree on is the final ITT of a GT is often always about the men with the best legs at that point (GC guys usually) dominating versus the specialists.

So it's the accumulated fatigue of 8 days of hard racing which made the gaps lesser today, which is something Kelly probably had on his mind when he made that prediction.

 

[how yes no?]

Of course the next big test suits him. When it comes to the best four climbers in the world (Pogacar, Evenepoel, Roglic, Vingegaard) all mountain stages suit them as they are normally the strongest.

I'm sorry, but Evenepoel does not yet get to be in that category, since his best climbing stage racing results came in Vuelta, where Enric Mas has outclimed him by 20s all in all.

 

[MrTea1976]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1657796597583839236

View: https://twitter.com/GeraintThomas86/status/1657796597583839236?t=h-3u_5eP7-qfvBF5G57zpw&s=19

 

[Red Rick]

I think the idea that the level was *** that year has been rebuked by the events of the past 12 months.

Ultimately, it depends on the race situation. Right now, Thomas, TGH and Roglic are basically on the same time, so ideally Roglic is narrowly the strongest of the three (or Evenepoel makes a miraculous recovery) so that Ineos both can and needs to race aggressively. For all Ineos' faults, when they have been in behind-but-winnable positions in GTs, they've always gone for it, whether on Stelvio and Sestrière in that Giro, Iséran in the 2019 Tour, or Finestre in the 2018 Giro. Don't see why they wouldn't do the same this time.

I'm still adamant Thomas would've won 2020 if he hadn't crahsed out.

 

[Lequack]

😆

https://twitter.com/x/status/1657765723156930561

View: https://twitter.com/writebikerepeat/status/1657765723156930561?t=xsX_HNZziO-Rn0KcJBvjNg&s=19

https://twitter.com/x/status/1657800811982778370

View: https://twitter.com/300wNeilW/status/1657800811982778370?s=20

 

[skippo12]

Does Küng win the TT if he starts an hour later. Have seen various posts that are clowning him for his pacing but I would argue that it was more about slippy corners in the first 10km.
Cleary worse road conditions compared to the GC leaders.