Giro d'Italia 2023 Giro d'Italia: Stage-by-Stage Analysis

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Evenepoel already having a preemptive meltdown over the possibility of the MTT being replaced with a road stage because it wouldn't be fair according to him. Because a flatter TT as a replacement wouldn't upset the balance far more than a replacement mountain stage when 90% of the MTT was going to be spent climbing...

"Preemptive meltdown"? Did you actually watch the interview? He even says "then they could just do the first 11km, or a different TT in the valley" and he says it's a pitty they only came to that conclusion this late, why they didn't think of it sooner. He would prefer another TT that is similar, because that is what was planned, but he would settle for any TT. But i guess a neutral take on his reaction would not fit the image you are trying to project.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

I mean the finish is next to the gondola lift, they will probably just take it and than ride back to the busses, no?

 

[Bonimenier]

Surprised Houtdfan hasn't yet proposed an 800 km TT to Rome as solution.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

I mean the finish is next to the gondola lift, they will probably just take it and than ride back to the busses, no?

Presumably, but that's not an option for the motorcycles.

 

[Red Rick]

Presumably, but that's not an option for the motorcycles.

Drone dropped bikes?

Spoiler

I'm sure it would happen if Dutch defense spending was higher

 

[Devil's Elbow]

"Preemptive meltdown"? Did you actually watch the interview? He even says "then they could just do the first 11km, or a different TT in the valley" and he says it's a pitty they only came to that conclusion this late, why they didn't think of it sooner. He would prefer another TT that is similar, because that is what was planned, but he would settle for any TT. But i guess a neutral take on his reaction would not fit the image you are trying to project.

Yes, that's exactly my point - a TT in the valley would upset the balance far more than a mountain stage would as far as replacements go. As for a 'similar' TT, the best climbs in the area (Nassfeldpass, Cason di Lanza) are only half the difficulty of Lussari and require double the valley to get there, so would also swing the balance pretty significantly, but I won't blame him for not being familiar enough with the area to know that. The bottom line is that Evenepoel wants his TT because it's unquestionably more advantageous for him than a mountain stage, not because it's the fairer option. That's why he would settle for any TT over a mountain stage.

 

[Ricco']

Covid is already on Remco's side. I think there may be more riders to drop out as the race goes on.

Remcovidir seems like a good name for a covid medication.

Gonna file the patent.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

Presumably, but that's not an option for the motorcycles.

Yes but that's why there's supposed to be groups with 45 minutes gaps between them. So the motorbikes can go back to the start. From what i understan from the article (bare in mind i had to use google translator since i don't speak dutch) the problem seems to be the number of bike, but i think the Giro uses way more than 50 bikes just to control the roads in normal stages.

On a side note, Sporza stole about 5 cm from Jan Hirt height

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yes, that's exactly my point - a TT in the valley would upset the balance far more than a mountain stage would as far as replacements go. As for a 'similar' TT, the best climbs in the area (Nassfeldpass, Cason di Lanza) are only half the difficulty of Lussari and require double the valley to get there, so would also swing the balance pretty significantly, but I won't blame him for not being familiar enough with the area to know that. The bottom line is that Evenepoel wants his TT because it's unquestionably more advantageous for him than a mountain stage, not because it's the fairer option. That's why he would settle for any TT over a mountain stage.

Regardless of what he finds fair, and i would agree since everybody has planned for THIS route an alternative would be most fair, he hardly had a meltdown about it.

 

[zlev11]

it would help the route quite a lot if the replacement TT isn't as insanely hard. would almost be a perfect route actually.

 

[Sciatic]

it would help the route quite a lot if the replacement TT isn't as insanely hard. would almost be a perfect route actually.

It would also benefit the action on the previous day’s high mountain stage.

 

[Monte Serra]

it would help the route quite a lot if the replacement TT isn't as insanely hard. would almost be a perfect route actually.

Maybe a nice rolling TT across the border in Slovenia? Plenty of options available. Up and down the Carso/Kras plateau. Or through the vineyards of the Goriška Brda.

 

[Jagartrott]

Yes, that's exactly my point - a TT in the valley would upset the balance far more than a mountain stage would as far as replacements go. As for a 'similar' TT, the best climbs in the area (Nassfeldpass, Cason di Lanza) are only half the difficulty of Lussari and require double the valley to get there, so would also swing the balance pretty significantly, but I won't blame him for not being familiar enough with the area to know that. The bottom line is that Evenepoel wants his TT because it's unquestionably more advantageous for him than a mountain stage, not because it's the fairer option. That's why he would settle for any TT over a mountain stage.

Replacing a TT by not a TT is the fairest solution? That sounds... strange.
In any case, it's prime amateur hour stuff this. They had months to figure this out, and they find out 2 days before the Giro start. Ridiculous.

 

[Red Rick]

Replacing a TT by not a TT is the fairest solution? That sounds... strange.
In any case, it's prime amateur hour stuff this. They had months to figure this out, and they find out 2 days before the Giro start. Ridiculous.

MTTs correlate much more strongly with MTF results than they do with flat TT results and it's not even close.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Well stage 20 uphill ITTs should be ban anyway . People will not race for days before them and then the actual stage could just be a weigh-in and a zwift power test and you would get the same reselt. S. . Cycling is about racing. Hopefully they replace with a proper foothills medium mountain stage

 

[Jagartrott]

MTTs correlate much more strongly with MTF results than they do with flat TT results and it's not even close.

The fairest solution, to me, seems to be another mountain TT. Shouldn't be impossible to find. Organising an entire mountain stage to replace a TT, that's something quite different. Also, it would be affecting not only that stage, but also the ones before.

 

[Sciatic]

Replacing a TT by not a TT is the fairest solution? That sounds... strange.
In any case, it's prime amateur hour stuff this. They had months to figure this out, and they find out 2 days before the Giro start. Ridiculous.

When my daughter spent a month studying in Italy she was by the end so frustrated with disorganization and things not working right that she breathed a sigh of relief when she boarded her flight home that January. And then the airport crews screwed up deicing the plane and had to redo it 3 times

 

[Devil's Elbow]

The fairest solution, to me, seems to be another mountain TT. Shouldn't be impossible to find. Organising an entire mountain stage to replace a TT, that's something quite different. Also, it would be affecting not only that stage, but also the ones before.

As I already mentioned upthread:

As for a 'similar' TT, the best climbs in the area (Nassfeldpass, Cason di Lanza) are only half the difficulty of Lussari and require double the valley to get there, so would also swing the balance pretty significantly

For the same reason, you can't do a huge mountain stage in the area (unless you cross the border). The only Italian pass within 30k of Tarvisio is this, just under 20k away:

Alternatively, you could do the climb below, descend 15k and have approximately 20k of flat to the finish line (less if you finish as close to Lussari as possible, more if you finish in Tarvisio itself).

Both of those options are less favourable to whoever is the strongest climber at that point than the original MTT would have been, but they don't shift the advantage to the better time-trialists among the GC riders like pretty much any alternative TT starting in Tarvisio would.

And yes, a mountain stage like that would impact the preceding Dolomites stages - by making them better, because nobody is spending the queen stage thinking about saving energy for freaking Sella Nevea of all climbs.

 

[Berniece]

Evenepoel already having a preemptive meltdown over the possibility of the MTT being replaced with a road stage because it wouldn't be fair according to him. Because a flatter TT as a replacement wouldn't upset the balance far more than a replacement mountain stage when 90% of the MTT was going to be spent climbing...

Preemptive meltdown? He literally says he hopes they find a similar TT route. Which is the most normal thing to say.

The only thing preemptive here is your childish judgement.

 

[Escarabajo]

Oh dear, good that I am Colombian, I can watch it with no worries. This Giro is going to be more fun in the forums than in the race. LOL.

 

[Riek s]

Damn,so basically they are saying: here look at all our ITT!!!
some ITT oriented racers start...it was a joke!

Hopefuly they find a solution for this hard MTT where everyone prepared for. I don't mind another ITT parcour and Remco/Roglic probably don't mind either. But it might be impactfull for Ineos and the lesser TTers. And an additional rest day would be strange as well

 

[Red Rick]

As I already mentioned upthread:

For the same reason, you can't do a huge mountain stage in the area (unless you cross the border). The only Italian pass within 30k of Tarvisio is this, just under 20k away:

Alternatively, you could do the climb below, descend 15k and have approximately 20k of flat to the finish line (less if you finish as close to Lussari as possible, more if you finish in Tarvisio itself).

Both of those options are less favourable to whoever is the strongest climber at that point than the original MTT would have been, but they don't shift the advantage to the better time-trialists among the GC riders like pretty much any alternative TT starting in Tarvisio would.

And yes, a mountain stage like that would impact the preceding Dolomites stages - by making them better, because nobody is spending the queen stage thinking about saving energy for freaking Sella Nevea of all climbs.

Mangart would probably be similar average speed but overall much harder.

Montasio MTT from the side they did in 2013 wouldn't be too bad but then that's not the right starting location.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Oh dear, good that I am Colombian, I can watch it with no worries. This Giro is going to be more fun in the forums than in the race. LOL.

Yeah, being relatively unbiased makes the forum more fun during a major showdown like this Giro. Watching this debate over the potential cancellation of stage 20 is already more exciting then most of the Giro last year.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Couldn't they just have Vingegaard climb alongside each participant and give them his bike in case of a mechanical?

Yeah, being relatively unbiased makes the forum more fun during a major showdown like this Giro. Watching this debate over the potential cancellation of stage 20 is already more exciting then most of the Giro last year.

Watching paint dry was more exciting than last year's Giro.

 

[Mayomaniac]

"Preemptive meltdown"? Did you actually watch the interview? He even says "then they could just do the first 11km, or a different TT in the valley" and he says it's a pitty they only came to that conclusion this late, why they didn't think of it sooner. He would prefer another TT that is similar, because that is what was planned, but he would settle for any TT. But i guess a neutral take on his reaction would not fit the image you are trying to project.

I always said that a Sella Nevea uphill TT would be much better for the race. Same start

Otherwise nothing new, Clown Vegni strikes again. At least this time before the start of the race.