Giro d'Italia 2023 Giro d'Italia: Stage-by-Stage Analysis

[Netserk]

So when do we expect confirmation/cancellation of Lussari?

This is the Giro. We'll know when the riders have started the stage, or maybe a bit after that.

 

[OlavEH]

Blah, these gimmick stages are just annoying. Just hope this is the last time they do something like this. I would be perfectly fine if they never did any Lussari, Crostis, Kronplatz or even the steep side of Zoncolan. Next year I would rather see them end the last weekend with something like a Mortirolo-Aprica or Fedaia-Sella-Selva stage on Friday followed by a big medium mountain stage the last Saturday. No more of these 15+ % glmmick climbs on goat tracks.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

But are space and transportation the issue here? And isn't there a cable car on the Monte Lussari too?

To me it sounds like the support motos are really the big issue here and in that regard I don't really see the difference to the Kronplatz TT. I feel like any solution they had there should als be applicable here.

I see a lot of differences with Kronplatz:
- Kronplatz had 4 (they've constructed a fifth one since) gondolas connecting to different easily-accessible parking lots, Lussari only has the one
- Kronplatz has a much wider and flatter summit
- The actual summit of Lussari is mostly covered by the sanctuary and associated buildings, whereas there's a lot of space between all the mountain stations of the lifts at Kronplatz
- The road up Kronplatz is on far less steep of a mountainside, so you can have people standing next to the road in a lot of places. That isn't the case here
- The time spent on the narrow bit of road per rider (from Furcia onwards) was less than it will/would be on Lussari
- The road up Kronplatz is less steep than the one up Lussari

So, given that Kronplatz was already very complicated logistically, it's hardly a shock that Lussari, which is logistically more constrained in almost every aspect, is causing enough issues that they may have to cancel it.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Is there any chance they could do a medium mountain stage instead, as it's the region who pays. Something like Sappada or even last years stage 19 would be awesome

 

[houtdffan]

Blah, these gimmick stages are just annoying. Just hope this is the last time they do something like this. I would be perfectly fine if they never did any Lussari, Crostis, Kronplatz or even the steep side of Zoncolan. Next year I would rather see them end the last weekend with something like a Mortirolo-Aprica or Fedaia-Sella-Selva stage on Friday followed by a big medium mountain stage the last Saturday. No more of these 15+ % glmmick climbs on goat tracks.

I dont have an issue with these ultra steep climbs. They are part of the sport

Just be sure they are properly balanced with long ITTs

 

[SHAD0W93]

Last year I had hoped and thought Cav would get 5 wins based off his form and the competition but it didn’t pan out. This year I hope he can win 4 stages but realistically it will probably be 1-2. As long as he wins at least one and keeps building for the Tour assault. There was even an article that the cards were on the table for Cav to race all 3 GTs this year.


For GC I think Evenepoel will take it over a close Roglic and Almeida being able to gain time in the beginning to hold on in the end.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Is there any chance they could do a medium mountain stage instead, as it's the region who pays. Something like Sappada or even last years stage 19 would be awesome

Seems like rather short notice to design a full medium mountain stage, but then again it’s the Giro and the route is never finalized until they start the dang stage.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Seems like rather short notice to design a full medium mountain stage, but then again it’s the Giro and the route is never finalized until they start the dang stage.

The Vuelta did just that in 2020, and these problems won't have arisen out of nowhere so they will probably have been working on a backup before today. Two laps of the below shouldn't be too much to ask for even at short notice. This starts and finishes where the MTT is supposed to start and passes through all the villages that would be on the route anyway, so at least somewhat palatable to the towns paying up for it.

If you were aiming a little higher, the below is as much as you can do without going for a monster length stage, descending Zoncolan (which would be more logistical problems), or crossing the border (in which case the options are abundant).

Edit: if you were doing a backup MTT, this would be the most obvious alternative without crossing borders, although you'd need to use some of the parkings on the Austrian side of the pass. Would be much more of a Tour 2020 PdBF TT clone rather than a pure MTT, which the actually planned one basically is.

 

[Rob5091]

If there's one thing for sure, the Giro always has some chaos. I guess we'll need a new stage profile soon.

 

[Netserk]

Is the gravel road that is marked on Google maps and which goes directly from the summit to Tarvisio really unusable for the motorbikes to descend?

If you were aiming a little higher, the below is as much as you can do without going for a monster length stage, descending Zoncolan (which would be more logistical problems), or crossing the border (in which case the options are abundant).

It's the perfect occasion for 2/3 of the Priola side to use as a pass.

But if it's the region who pays, I think Zonc will be the backup. I guess as a road stage that starts from Tarvisio, but a MTT from Tolmezzo would best emulate the original stage: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/42777419

 

[OlavEH]

I dont have an issue with these ultra steep climbs. They are part of the sport

Just be sure they are properly balanced with long ITTs

I rather be without the first. At least as the Giro profile is this year where Lussari are places just after the queen stage. Rather give me some of the great climbing combos in Italy and some big and long medium mountain stages.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Isn‘t there still a 3500 km limit on Grand Tours? I don‘t think they can do a decent length road stage, so it will have to be a time trial.

 

[noob]

This long anticipation and now they're taking it away. I'm glad I could enjoy the anticipation til now but oh lord the disappointment 😞 😪 😭

 

[Berniece]

So when do we expect confirmation/cancellation of Lussari?

There’s a meeting between team directors and the organisation today where this will be discussed

 

[Netserk]

Isn‘t there still a 3500 km limit on Grand Tours? I don‘t think they can do a decent length road stage, so it will have to be a time trial.

That "rule" has been in place since at least 2005, but often GTs have been longer than that since then. The Giro most recently in 2019.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Is the gravel road that is marked on Google maps and which goes directly from the summit to Tarvisio really unusable for the motorbikes to descend?

It's the perfect occasion for 2/3 of the Priola side to use as a pass.

But if it's the region who pays, I think Zonc will be the backup. I guess as a road stage that starts from Tarvisio, but a MTT from Tolmezzo would best emulate the original stage: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/42777419

There's no road for about 200m, the road is in a bad condition and it's 3.5kms at over 17%, not really useable, unless your an offroad specialist.

Tolmezzo - Zoncolan would be pretty great but brutal, a 1 hour long ITT with 2/3 of it being on a super steep climb.

 

[Red Rick]

I see a lot of differences with Kronplatz:
- Kronplatz had 4 (they've constructed a fifth one since) gondolas connecting to different easily-accessible parking lots, Lussari only has the one
- Kronplatz has a much wider and flatter summit
- The actual summit of Lussari is mostly covered by the sanctuary and associated buildings, whereas there's a lot of space between all the mountain stations of the lifts at Kronplatz
- The road up Kronplatz is on far less steep of a mountainside, so you can have people standing next to the road in a lot of places. That isn't the case here
- The time spent on the narrow bit of road per rider (from Furcia onwards) was less than it will/would be on Lussari
- The road up Kronplatz is less steep than the one up Lussari

So, given that Kronplatz was already very complicated logistically, it's hardly a shock that Lussari, which is logistically more constrained in almost every aspect, is causing enough issues that they may have to cancel it.

TIL Kronplatz isn't actually steep they just said "ah I don't wanna build hairpins today"

 

[Red Rick]

If you were aiming a little higher, the below is as much as you can do without going for a monster length stage, descending Zoncolan (which would be more logistical problems), or crossing the border (in which case the options are abundant).

Edit: if you were doing a backup MTT, this would be the most obvious alternative without crossing borders, although you'd need to use some of the parkings on the Austrian side of the pass. Would be much more of a Tour 2020 PdBF TT clone rather than a pure MTT, which the actually planned one basically is.

The road stage looks pretty good to me. The MTT is way too different and big IMO.

If we're gonna get a replacement MTT that's not a super steep climb, I don't wanna see any flat before it, and overall I would prefer the MTT to become smaller. More Nevegal and less Grappa please.

I liked @Netserks idea of going partway up to Monte Zoncolan, which is the most 1:1 replacement I can think of. If we get full Zonc, then skip the flat part and start in Priola or Ovaro. I don't wanna replace a 42 minute stupid MTT with a 1 hour stupid MTT.

If we get a road stage, that medium mountain stage you had looks great to me. If the region pays I wouldn't mind unipuerto Crostis or a slightly easier MTF either, as long as the MTF is individually hard but not crazy enough to deter action on the days before.

Flat ITT is just extremely bad for balancing reasons, and it's not like a non MTT final MTT hasn't hurt GC action in the last few years. And even more so considering there's already rumors that one of the 2 biggest mountain stages may get significantly nerfed.

 

[OlavEH]

I would rather see them turning this into a short and aggresive medium mountain stage.

 

[Netserk]

There's no road for about 200m, the road is in a bad condition and it's 3.5kms at over 17%, not really useable, unless your an offroad specialist.

Tolmezzo - Zoncolan would be pretty great but brutal, a 1 hour long ITT with 2/3 of it being on a super steep climb.

The route I linked would have no longer duration than the original stage 20. It's basically the same length, vertical gain and gradients.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The route I linked would have no longer duration than the original stage 20. It's basically the same length, vertical gain and gradients.

Ah, you're using the ascent from Priola until the ski station. No idea in what condition the asphalt on the ascent actually is, I've never done that side of the Zoncolan. It has a rep for being hard because the rough tamarc slows you down even more. The descent down towards Sutrio from the Ski station is on a nice, wide road and really unproblematic, sending motobikes or car back down would be really easy.

 

[Red Rick]

I presume if Zoncolan is the alternative we just get Ovaro to to tbh, gotta get that hype train going.

Honestly one hilarious part Ovaro-Zoncolan would actually be the time limit for the sprinters could suddenly be in play.

 

[staubsauger]

Just replace it with Zoncolan mtt or Pampeago/Reiterjoch north mtt.

The latter would actually be perfect. Nice new paved road. Not much traffic anyway. Riders and cars can just descent through from the top down to the famous Alpe di Pampeago ski station were are enough parking slots.

Zoncolan mtt would be better than Lussari anyway.

They could also just start grading the Kronplatz already.

But realistically

Just do a Zoncolan mtt from Oviedo, which is only 90 kilometres from the 3 Merlons and is a Giro d'Italia regular should be a realistic replacement both financially & logistically.

 

[Netserk]

I presume if Zoncolan is the alternative we just get Ovaro to to tbh, gotta get that hype train going.

Honestly one hilarious part Ovaro-Zoncolan would actually be the time limit for the sprinters could suddenly be in play.

Yes, classic Zonc is my number 1 bet for an alternative.

 

[houtdffan]

I rather be without the first. At least as the Giro profile is this year where Lussari are places just after the queen stage. Rather give me some of the great climbing combos in Italy and some big and long medium mountain stages.

19 isn't the queen stage. That's 13.

Stage 19 is very similar to stage 15? from 2007. Selection down to about 6 riders on the Giau, then little difference on the rest of the stage