2023 Tour de France route rumors

[ChiefMasterPro]

For the stage to Cautarets or Pont d'Espagne: do we believe they tackle Aspin and Tourmalet before the final climb, or is it possible to have more or even less climbs on the route?

 

[Will4563]

I just read an article suggesting that the Loze stage wouldn't just climb the last 1 kilometer to Courchevel Altiport after the descent, but would descent all the way back and doing the climb used in 2005 when Valverde won. That would look a bit like this (Just the last two climbs then): https://ridewithgps.com/routes/41289259

Medier: Vanvidsbjerg vender tilbage til Tour de France

"En af de hårdeste stigninger" i Tour de France-historien skal muligvis atter besøges i 2023.

www.feltet.dk

 

[ChiefMasterPro]

I just read an article suggesting that the Loze stage wouldn't just climb the last 1 kilometer to Courchevel Altiport after the descent, but would descent all the way back and doing the climb used in 2005 when Valverde won. That would look a bit like this (Just the last two climbs then): https://ridewithgps.com/routes/41289259

Medier: Vanvidsbjerg vender tilbage til Tour de France

"En af de hårdeste stigninger" i Tour de France-historien skal muligvis atter besøges i 2023.

www.feltet.dk

I do like the idea, but it seems that there might be some danger that the lead group and the Grupetto meet each other.

Also an idea to better link climbs: There is a parallel and higher mountain pass to the Roseland, called Cormet d'Arêches. The descent of that pass would directly link to the part of the valley Tarantaise, where on both sides a mountain road starts, which both don't finish far away from the Col de la Loze. So my question is, would the Cormet d'Arêches be an option the ride on (especially to descent)? Idea would be:
Cormet d'Arêches - Hautecour (or Col du Tra) - Col de la Loze without a lot of flat in between.

 

[Ricco']

I do like the idea, but it seems that there might be some danger that the lead group and the Grupetto meet each other.

No grupetto if they make it pancake flat until Loze.

And the link is in miles and not km, which made me misjudge it. It's almost 23 miles (37 km) until the riders pass through the same point. That should be close to an hour interval, given that they need to climb more 11 km until they cross Loze from the point where they will rejoin the route.

 

[gavia88]

I do like the idea, but it seems that there might be some danger that the lead group and the Grupetto meet each other.

Also an idea to better link climbs: There is a parallel and higher mountain pass to the Roseland, called Cormet d'Arêches. The descent of that pass would directly link to the part of the valley Tarantaise, where on both sides a mountain road starts, which both don't finish far away from the Col de la Loze. So my question is, would the Cormet d'Arêches be an option the ride on (especially to descent)? Idea would be:
Cormet d'Arêches - Hautecour (or Col du Tra) - Col de la Loze without a lot of flat in between.

that climb is unpaved

 

[gavia88]

I do like the idea, but it seems that there might be some danger that the lead group and the Grupetto meet each other.

Also an idea to better link climbs: There is a parallel and higher mountain pass to the Roseland, called Cormet d'Arêches. The descent of that pass would directly link to the part of the valley Tarantaise, where on both sides a mountain road starts, which both don't finish far away from the Col de la Loze. So my question is, would the Cormet d'Arêches be an option the ride on (especially to descent)? Idea would be:
Cormet d'Arêches - Hautecour (or Col du Tra) - Col de la Loze without a lot of flat in between.

it would make more sense to just climb loze the first time via Courchevel as well

 

[Mayomaniac]

Sounds like a great idea, but a bit of a logistic nightmare with the big Tour caravan...

 

[Will4563]

The loop should be possible with the grupetto, maybe also the caravan, as the Vuelta had a 25 Km loop around Collada de la Gallina in 2019, Stage 9. I do not know how much bigger the caravan is at the Tour than the Vuelta.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Sounds like a great idea, but a bit of a logistic nightmare with the big Tour caravan...

Not sure if the west side of Loze is safe enough to descend by ASO standards though, the bike path part is really steep and irregular and has very few hairpins to slow the riders down - in fact, the first 2.5 kilometres have zero curves that are more than ~45° - and it's mostly unprotected.

 

[Red Rick]

The stage before is a sprint.

LE TOUR - A Bayonne, Dax, Mont-de-Marsan, Nogaro, Laruns, Pau, Tarbes et Cauterets ?

Après un départ depuis Bilbao, le 1er juillet, la Grande Boucle passera 5 jours sur le bassin Adour Gascogne. Verdict officiel le jeudi 27 octobre.

presselib.com

Stage 6 is the Pau - Laruns stage, so they actually got it right.

See, stage before nothing good will happen

 

[rghysens]

I do like the idea, but it seems that there might be some danger that the lead group and the Grupetto meet each other.

Also an idea to better link climbs: There is a parallel and higher mountain pass to the Roseland, called Cormet d'Arêches. The descent of that pass would directly link to the part of the valley Tarantaise, where on both sides a mountain road starts, which both don't finish far away from the Col de la Loze. So my question is, would the Cormet d'Arêches be an option the ride on (especially to descent)? Idea would be:
Cormet d'Arêches - Hautecour (or Col du Tra) - Col de la Loze without a lot of flat in between.

Cormet d´Areches is absolutely unfeasable with a road bike.

 

[Forever The Best]

Oh yes, give the arguable strongest rider with the strongest team with a head start with a TTT. That always works well

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

For the stage to Cautarets or Pont d'Espagne: do we believe they tackle Aspin and Tourmalet before the final climb, or is it possible to have more or even less climbs on the route?

Tourmalet only is a possibility according to ladepeche.fr (article is paywalled). Either that or Aspin and Tourmalet.

source: Thomas at Velowire

Tour de France 2023: the rumours about the race route and the stage cities

The Tour of all the mountain areas!--Pyrenees, Massif Central, Jura, Alps and Vosges will be on the programme! -- initially published on 19 September 2022 at 11.45PM, updated on 21 September at 11.12PM, on 25 September at 4.22PM, on 27 September at 11.56PM, on 29 September at 1.12PM on 30...

www.velowire.com

 

[pman]

So it seems like Stage 17 is going to be the ITT (one and only?). The two towns are what 9 k apart? Are they seriously going to have a race with only a 10 k ITT? I guess you can expand it by having a loop around Sallanches but still, that'll make it what a 12 K ITT?

 

[gavia88]

So it seems like Stage 17 is going to be the ITT (one and only?). The two towns are what 9 k apart? Are they seriously going to have a race with only a 10 k ITT? I guess you can expand it by having a loop around Sallanches but still, that'll make it what a 12 K ITT?

a complete spaghetti around Saint Gervais with stages. Never happend before I guess that stage finishes and starts layed that close together and that travel distance between the stages has been this limited.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

a complete spaghetti around Saint Gervais with stages. Never happend before I guess that stage finishes and starts layed that close together and that travel distance between the stages has been this limited.

2015 Tour also had two starts and finishes cramped together in the same area (Sallanches, Megeve, Saint Gervais and Megeve again).

So it seems like Stage 17 is going to be the ITT (one and only?). The two towns are what 9 k apart? Are they seriously going to have a race with only a 10 k ITT? I guess you can expand it by having a loop around Sallanches but still, that'll make it what a 12 K ITT?

Which genius at ASO mixed up the TT for the women's race with the one for the men's race? The one year they seem to have put the mountain stages in a decent order also seems to be the year they produce the most unbalanced route in their history...

 

[pman]

But chances of a TTT are not that high anymore.

But didn't Gaudu tweet out about the TTT? That's about as good of a source as they come, unless he and his team know about as much as we do,lol.

 

[pman]

a complete spaghetti around Saint Gervais with stages. Never happend before I guess that stage finishes and starts layed that close together and that travel distance between the stages has been this limited.

I mean even if they find a way to climb a mountain, even the MITT that Pog won had 30 k of flat, didn't it? It was like 30k of flat and 7 k of climbing. Now could you imagine an ITT that crosses into three countries? With that location you could have a ITT that goes from France to Switzerland to Italy back into France. Now that would be a cool ITT.

 

[Green Jersey Mike]

I mean even if they find a way to climb a mountain, even the MITT that Pog won had 30 k of flat, didn't it? It was like 30k of flat and 7 k of climbing. Now could you imagine an ITT that crosses into three countries? With that location you could have a ITT that goes from France to Switzerland to Italy back into France. Now that would be a cool ITT.

Maybe for a road stage you could include all three countries. In Stage 16 of 2009 They started in Switzerland, went through Italy and Finished in Bourg-Saint-Maurice. In total 159km. The Shortest possible route one could do including all three countries would involve going from the French/Swiss Border through the Mont Blanc Tunnel to Courmayeur in Italy. This route would be just shy of 40km. Alternatively they could go from the Swiss/French border to top of the Grand St.Bernard Pass at the Italian/Swiss Border. In Total 62km with a 30km Mountain that climbs to 2400 metres. I imagine for the 2022 Stage 16 (ITT) course they could easily make it 30-35km rolling route that would be akin to the Final Time Trial of 2013. There are quite a few nice paved roads in behind Passy that would additionally add some nice gradients. I hope they don't screw the TT's up again. My faith in the Tour Organization is limited though in this regard.

 

[pman]

I wonder if these spaghetti routes as some have called the mini loops are just a random one off or if it's the new normal. It looks odd on a map and it defeats the purpose of spreading the race around France. However given the state of the environment I completely understand that it is a step towards minimizing the Tour's environmental impact.

 

[Andy schleck]

Cormet d´Areches is absolutely unfeasable with a road bike.

Col du sabot would be a more exciting dream in my point of view.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Likely Annemasse - Morzine stage profile, according to laoinfe at Le Gruppetto.

EDT2023

156.0 km, +3959 m. Bike ride in Annemasse, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes

ridewithgps.com

major climbs

Mont Salève

Ramaz

Joux-Plane

156 kms, 3,960m D+

 

[OlavEH]

2015 Tour also had two starts and finishes cramped together in the same area (Sallanches, Megeve, Saint Gervais and Megeve again).

One time they should really do a queen stage from Chamonix to Bourg St.Maurice (or vicinity) via Grand Bernard and Petit Bernard via San Carlo.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

One time they should really do a queen stage from Chamonix to Bourg St.Maurice (or vicinity) via Grand Bernard and Petit Bernard via San Carlo.

The host cities wouldn't pay for that, I think. With the start and finish in France and most of the rest of the stage abroad.

 

[Netserk]

No host cities would pay for that, I think. With the start and finish in France and most of the rest of the stage abroad.

Why would that matter? What difference would it make for the start of finish host if the stage was like the previous to Bourg St. Maurice?

When Pontarlier hosted the start of the stage to Verbier, it did so even if only the first ~12 km were in France.

It wasn't a problem for the Giro: