40th Route du Sud [2.1]

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

You don't like riders who are willing to take a few risks downhill to take the win?

Not when said rider is the only rider I've recall that's been repeatedly called out by the peloton for recklessly endangering others on descents. And this is a peloton that holds such descending luminaries as Warren Barguil.

What, by Froome? Who else has called him out? Post some quotes from other riders.

Also, Quintana seems like and odd choice for contrast in terms of competitiveness. It is not a quality he would seem to lack. But then again I actually believe that pushing up the pace in the early slopes of LPSM might've cost Movistar last year's Tour. YMMV.

Quintana lost last year's Tour because he was too passive. In several other races, he also just sat on someone's wheel without trying too much. He really doesn't have the same killer instinct as riders like Nibali or Contador.

 

[Antoine_Blondin]

Rain, 3° at the top of the Tourmalet and 4 000m ascent : tomorrow stage will be tough.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Rain, 3° at the top of the Tourmalet and 4 000m ascent : tomorrow stage will be tough.

Wow! That's heavy

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

You don't like riders who are willing to take a few risks downhill to take the win?

Not when said rider is the only rider I've recall that's been repeatedly called out by the peloton for recklessly endangering others on descents. And this is a peloton that holds such descending luminaries as Warren Barguil.

What, by Froome? Who else has called him out? Post some quotes from other riders.

Sure thing:

Greg Van Avermaet (BMC) saw Contador crashing too but he saw the whole team moving up. “It wasn’t necessary. They moved up beside me with the whole team. They were already in about 25th place but apparently those Saxo-guys wanted to move up even more. I always want to maintain my position during a descent but they wanted to move up. It’s a stupid crash on a straightforward road. Very stupid,” Van Avermaet told Cyclingnews.

“According to me, he was moving up during the descent. That didn’t seem necessary to me because we were already quite near the front. I didn’t see exactly what caused the crash but I saw him crashing. He touched the ground a couple of times really hard. Eventually, he ended up at the side of the road. At first I thought he would not get back up. It was a big hit. We were going really fast,” Keukeleire told Cyclingnews.

Don't remember anyone knocked for a crash on a descent quite like that, much less a 7-time GT winner.

Also, Quintana seems like and odd choice for contrast in terms of competitiveness. It is not a quality he would seem to lack. But then again I actually believe that pushing up the pace in the early slopes of LPSM might've cost Movistar last year's Tour. YMMV.

Quintana lost last year's Tour because he was too passive. In several other races, he also just sat on someone's wheel without trying too much. He really doesn't have the same killer instinct as riders like Nibali or Contador.

No, he lost it because he was too aggressive at LPSM. Had he limited his losses there, he may have won it. Unlike Contador and Nibali, who never stood a chance. But again, YMMV.

I think the rain means that early attack odds just dropped down precipitously.

 

[lenric]

Re:

Lol at the daredevil descent from Contador. He barely took any risks.. Quintana lost the wheel for no clear reason and then they just rode down pretty casually.

Anyway strong performance today. Chavanel is not a nobody even at his age and the others are not even close.

Chavanel's almost 37 years-old, plus he has done nothing in the last 2 years. Hence, he's a poor proxy for the estimation of the magnitude of Quintana's TT improvement (which has improved, which is normal, given his youth).

 

[Antoine_Blondin]

Some videos :

Route du Sud 2016 - Highlights stage 1 St-Pons-de-Thomières - Bessières
Route du Sud 2016 - Highlights stage 2-3 Albi ITT

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Thanks for the videos, Antoine.

You don't like riders who are willing to take a few risks downhill to take the win?

Not when said rider is the only rider I've recall that's been repeatedly called out by the peloton for recklessly endangering others on descents. And this is a peloton that holds such descending luminaries as Warren Barguil.

What, by Froome? Who else has called him out? Post some quotes from other riders.

Sure thing:

Greg Van Avermaet (BMC) saw Contador crashing too but he saw the whole team moving up. “It wasn’t necessary. They moved up beside me with the whole team. They were already in about 25th place but apparently those Saxo-guys wanted to move up even more. I always want to maintain my position during a descent but they wanted to move up. It’s a stupid crash on a straightforward road. Very stupid,” Van Avermaet told Cyclingnews.

“According to me, he was moving up during the descent. That didn’t seem necessary to me because we were already quite near the front. I didn’t see exactly what caused the crash but I saw him crashing. He touched the ground a couple of times really hard. Eventually, he ended up at the side of the road. At first I thought he would not get back up. It was a big hit. We were going really fast,” Keukeleire told Cyclingnews.

Don't remember anyone knocked for a crash on a descent quite like that, much less a 7-time GT winner.

So, you took comments on one crash he had on one descent as examples. That's hardly being ''repeatedly called out by the peloton for recklessly endangering others on descents''. In fact, they only mention the crash being avoidable - nothing about it being dangerous to the rest of them. Some honesty, please.

 

[greenedge]

Re: Re:

BRYAAAAAAN!

YESSSSS!

SUCH STRENGHT!

I don't envy the French coach for the WC, nor Cassani as explaining to their sprinters who they'll have to ride for will be tough.

What about the German coach

True (I'd forgotten about them), though having Kittel and Greipel is two riders- who both seem pleasant enough in nature and don't have a feud amongst themselves, unlike Bouhanni/Demare or Nizzolo/Modolo- unlike 3 riders for the other nations. Hopefully Germany would be able to lead both of them out, or let whoever has the best form be the leader.

 

[Red Rick]

So much discussion over something that shouldn't surprise anybody that has been paying attention the past half year.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

So, you took comments on one crash he had on one descent as examples. That's hardly being ''repeatedly called out by the peloton for recklessly endangering others on descents''. In fact, they only mention the crash being avoidable - nothing about it being dangerous to the rest of them. Some honesty, please.

Come on. GVA called it avoidable, unnecessary and very stupid. Do you think he just wanted to pour salt in Contador's considerable wounds? You're more than free to point out any other occasion where that's happened before, someone calling at any other rider like that for crashing on a descent and taking himself out of a race. Much less a major GC star.

And then there's also obviously the Froome quote, which I assumed we were all too acquainted with:

"“Contador was pushing the limits too far and took himself down in front of me – which also put me at risk. I had to go off the road for a second to try and get around him...I don’t think it was necessary to take those kinds of risks. But teams are starting to get desperate now.”

I don't see where I'm lacking "honesty" here, but then again with these things, your mileage is bound to vary.

I second your appreciation for the videos, though. Pretty.

 

[AlexNYC]

Re: Re:

What was this ITT's profile like? Was it pancake-flat or was it hilly? Unfortunately, I can't see the pictures at work as they're blocked by the firewall.

Two smalls hills, but mainly flat

I got around to watching the race earlier today. I think there was too much climbing to call it a mostly flat TT. Quintana did well to win, but I don't think it was hugely surprising against this field.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

So, you took comments on one crash he had on one descent as examples. That's hardly being ''repeatedly called out by the peloton for recklessly endangering others on descents''. In fact, they only mention the crash being avoidable - nothing about it being dangerous to the rest of them. Some honesty, please.

Come on. GVA called it avoidable, unnecessary and very stupid. Do you think he just wanted to pour salt in Contador's considerable wounds? You're more than free to point out any other occasion where that's happened before, someone calling at any other rider like that for crashing on a descent and taking himself out of a race. Much less a major GC star.

And then there's also obviously the Froome quote, which I assumed we were all too acquainted with:

"“Contador was pushing the limits too far and took himself down in front of me – which also put me at risk. I had to go off the road for a second to try and get around him...I don’t think it was necessary to take those kinds of risks. But teams are starting to get desperate now.”

I don't see where I'm lacking "honesty" here, but then again with these things, your mileage is bound to vary.

I second your appreciation for the videos, though. Pretty.

Both GVA and Keukeleire were asked what exactly happened. GVA said he was moving up which he considered stupid. Keukeleire said he was moving up which he considered unnecessary. They say that with the result of that action (Contador's crash and abandon) in the back of their heads. They did not call it reckless or dangerous to the rest of the peloton, they implied that the crash was avoidable and wouldn't have happened if Contador and his teammates hadn't tried to gain positions on the descent.
If Contador hadn't crashed there, no one would have said anything about it. It would just be another race situation that goes by and is forgotten.
Froome, yes, he whined about Contador's descending, in the media, on social media and later also in his book. We already knew about that. Why don't you post that Andy Schleck quote in which he whines about people (including Contador) attacking on downhills and says it shouldn't be allowed, as well?

 

[SeriousSam]

It goes without saying that someone causing an avoidable crash within the peloton is dangerous to the rest of the peloton.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

So, you took comments on one crash he had on one descent as examples. That's hardly being ''repeatedly called out by the peloton for recklessly endangering others on descents''. In fact, they only mention the crash being avoidable - nothing about it being dangerous to the rest of them. Some honesty, please.

Come on. GVA called it avoidable, unnecessary and very stupid. Do you think he just wanted to pour salt in Contador's considerable wounds? You're more than free to point out any other occasion where that's happened before, someone calling at any other rider like that for crashing on a descent and taking himself out of a race. Much less a major GC star.

And then there's also obviously the Froome quote, which I assumed we were all too acquainted with:

"“Contador was pushing the limits too far and took himself down in front of me – which also put me at risk. I had to go off the road for a second to try and get around him...I don’t think it was necessary to take those kinds of risks. But teams are starting to get desperate now.”

I don't see where I'm lacking "honesty" here, but then again with these things, your mileage is bound to vary.

I second your appreciation for the videos, though. Pretty.

Both GVA and Keukeleire were asked what exactly happened. GVA said he was moving up which he considered stupid. Keukeleire said he was moving up which he considered unnecessary. They say that with the result of that action (Contador's crash and abandon) in the back of their heads. They did not call it reckless or dangerous to the rest of the peloton, they implied that the crash was avoidable and wouldn't have happened if Contador and his teammates hadn't tried to gain positions on the descent.
If Contador hadn't crashed there, no one would have said anything about it. It would just be another race situation that goes by and is forgotten.
Froome, yes, he whined about Contador's descending, in the media, on social media and later also in his book. We already knew about that. Why don't you post that Andy Schleck quote in which he whines about people (including Contador) attacking on downhills and says it shouldn't be allowed, as well?

I'll buy you a cycling team if you find this.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

It goes without saying that someone causing an avoidable crash within the peloton is dangerous to the rest of the peloton.

Perhaps, but GVA and Keukeleire made no mention of that. They didn't complain that it was dangerous, just that it was a stupid action by Contador because it caused him to crash out.
Anyway, this is all very off-topic so I suggest we leave it at that.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I'll buy you a cycling team if you find this.

You're right, he didn't say attacking on descents shouldn't be allowed, he said races shouldn't be allowed to be decided on downhills, which is more or less the same thing. Can you blame me for not remembering the exact words he used back in 2011?

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

I'll buy you a cycling team if you find this.

You're right, he didn't say attacking on descents shouldn't be allowed, he said races shouldn't be allowed to be decided on downhills, which is more or less the same thing. Can you blame me for not remembering the exact words he used back in 2011?

It's very different.

 

[Red Rick]

Why does it even matter what was said exactly?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

So much discussion over something that shouldn't surprise anybody that has been paying attention the past half year.

If you actually watched it live and saw Chavanels time, I think you would've been surprised as well

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

So much discussion over something that shouldn't surprise anybody that has been paying attention the past half year.

If you actually watched it live and saw Chavanels time, I think you would've been surprised as well

Quintana's average speed over the 13.4 kilometres was almost exactly 51 km/h. Last year's Tour prologue (Stage 1 officially) was ridden at 55.4 km/h. Take into account the hills in this one, that would've lowered the average speed by 2 km/h (estimate, probably generous) but also the intense heat of the Utrecht stage then it seems still to be quite a gap between the perfromances. Quintana was decent, but nothing special. Especially against this field.

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

So much discussion over something that shouldn't surprise anybody that has been paying attention the past half year.

If you actually watched it live and saw Chavanels time, I think you would've been surprised as well

Quintana's average speed over the 13.4 kilometres was almost exactly 51 km/h. Last year's Tour prologue (Stage 1 officially) was ridden at 55.4 km/h. Take into account the hills in this one, that would've lowered the average speed by 2 km/h (estimate, probably generous) but also the intense heat of the Utrecht stage then it seems still to be quite a gap between the perfromances. Quintana was decent, but nothing special. Especially against this field.

You would also need to compare the amount of cornering and the wind.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Soler and Rojas in the break, so its likely that Quintana will move on Tourmalet.

 

[ILovecycling]

@Antoine
Do you know when they will be on top of the Tourmalet?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

@Antoine
Do you know when they will be on top of the Tourmalet?

14.20-14.30 is my guess

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

@Antoine
Do you know when they will be on top of the Tourmalet?

14.20-14.30 is my guess

Is that for Quintana or for the rest of the peloton