Vuelta a España 76th La Vuelta ciclista a España 2021 (August 14 - September 5)

[Red Rick]

I think you just answered your own question. ;-)

Doesn’t being a “terrible” TTer basically make you NOT an all-rounder. You cannot be an all-rounder and totally suck at one important element.

Then again it may be telling in today’s cycling that fans no longer consider being a strong TTer a pre-requisite for being an all-rounder.

And it used to be called the “race of truth”…

Btw, I grant you and everyone here who pointed out that Bardet does have more than one skill. I was exaggerating to make my point. I like Bardet as a rider. I simply hope that he never wins a GT because it had almost no ITT in it…

Doubt there's any rider in the world who's objectively one of the best 50 in the world at every single subskill.

 

[Big Doopie]

Doubt there's any rider in the world who's objectively one of the best 50 in the world at every single subskill.

@Red Rick hmm…I believe you are knowingly obfuscating my point. I believe you to be better than that. ;-) GT success has traditionally been determined by being strong at two skills in particular: climbing and TTing. In fact most GT winners (and particularly the TDF) often required a rider to be top 10 if not top 5 in both skills.

I grant you other elements like descending matter (though arguably less since rarely can major differences be made on a descent even if on a bad day or bonking).

And don’t add cobble or dirt riding to a GT contenders necessary skills. Can it affect the outcome, sure. But they are rarely included and often at the objection of many of the GT teams who do not think they should be part of the race.

Rog, Pog, Hinault, Lemond, Indurain, Merckx, Ocana, Fignon, Thevenet, even Delgado (when he won)…list goes on and on.

Perfect example of the balance is Lemond’s 89 and 90 wins.

In 89 Lemond was the best TTer but only top five climbing (where he lost time). In 1990, he was only just top five in TT, but arguably one of if not the strongest climber in the race. He also gained most of his time in a hilly mid-mountain stage.

That is the all-around balance that GTs should strive for. And it is one of the main reasons the TDF remains the most important GT (because the very strongest nearly always wins). I don’t have an issue with the vuelta or giro once in a while having a route that might benefit a slightly different type of rider, but largely eliminating the impact of TT in a GT does nothing but reduce the necessary quality to win one.

 

[SafeBet]

@Big Doopie I think your definition of an all arounder is somewhat limited.
Wilco Kelderman is very good at both climbing and time trialling, but I struggle to view him as an all arounder. Certainly he's not more of an all arounder than someone like Bernal or Bardet to me.

Cycling is a little more than climbing + TTing.
Bike handling is surely as important to be able to win (or even finish) a GT and it's a key element for descending. Would someone like Latour or Zakarin be able to win a GT even if they were top3 in both climbing and TTing? Perhaps on very specific routes, more likely in the Vuelta.
Sprinting might come handy when it's harder to make differences since the general level is much higher in contemporary cycling.
Riding rough surfaces like sterrato and cobbles will also prove necessary going forward since most route designers are starting to view it as a good way to have gaps without throwing in big mountains.

There are some incredible all arounders in the pro peloton nowadays. Van Aert is clearly a level above everyone else in that respect and I agree in an ideal world he should find at least one GT route every year where he gets a shot. But not just by riding 200 km of ITT. Give him some more cobbles / white roads / hills / windy stages and let's see who can deal with him over three weeks.
Pogacar, Roglic are other great examples of all arounders, but again not just because they can both TT and climb. They are much more than that.
Evenepoel, for instance, is a lot less of an all arounder at the moment.

 

[Escarabajo]

On Bernal and Carapaz, I don't think they putting Bernal on the giro meant that much. Don't forget Bernal lived in Italy, speaks Italian very fluently, and in 2019 was scheduled to go to the Giro, so it may be Bernal's decision to go to the Giro.

I agree with you on this. But there were many other reasons for Ineos to send Bernal to the Giro. They had zero reasons to send him to the Tour again. This year Ineos learned a lot more about their team and about the opposition.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I see the Vuelta has finally overhauled their points competition this year to be similar to that used by the Tour

So Demare v Matthews v Jakobsen v Philipsen instead of Roglic v nobody

 

[topt]

People overrate Bahrain-Victorious. That team isn't anywhere as strong as J-V or Ineos, or even Movistar for that matter.
Landa for the overall? A 31-year old who only 2 years ago was Carapaz's domestique? And the rest of the team is pretty average even for domestiques.

I would think this also if there wasnt a crazy improvement of the entire bahrain team this year

 

[Red Rick]

Right I moved the 50-climbers-better-than-van-aert thing to the Van Aert thread. Doesn't seem that relevant to this Vuelta in hindsight

 

[yaco]

No Chaves on the BikeExchange's start list.
Wonder if it's transfer-related or something else.
Could've targeted few stages.

The team wanted him to ride the Vuelta but he hasn't recovered from the TDF and the Olympics - His non-selection is hardly transfer related, seeing TBE never offered him a contract.

 

[tobydawq]

EF will go with Caicedo, Camargo, Carr, Carthy, Cort, Craddock, Ceukeleire and Ckully.

A bit surprising not to see Urán there as he was on the provisional start list. But I had been hoping to see Cort going and am happy to see that he will.

 

[Red Rick]

EF will go with Caicedo, Camargo, Carr, Carthy, Cort, Craddock, Ceukeleire and Ckully.

A bit surprising not to see Urán there as he was on the provisional start list. But I had been hoping to see Cort going and am happy to see that he will.

Uran has never really done 2 GTs in a row and doesn't he really dislike the Vuelta for some reason? He has never performed in it.

 

[RedheadDane]

EF is NOT the last team to publish their lineup?!
Has the World imploded?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

EF will go with Caicedo, Camargo, Carr, Carthy, Cort, Craddock, Ceukeleire and Ckully.

A bit surprising not to see Urán there as he was on the provisional start list. But I had been hoping to see Cort going and am happy to see that he will.

Why are you giving Scully the k from Keukeleire?

 

[Anderis]

Why are you giving Scully the k from Keukeleire?

Well, it had to go somewhere, had it not?

I'm upset that I wasn't the first one to make the comment on EF's "C" team. I'll be the first one to express my disappointment that Uran isn't riding instead. I hoped that EF would have 2 options for GC but now it's all for one rider.

Also interesting that Scully is there because he rode TdP's 1st stage and TdP doesn't end before the Vuelta's start so I guess he had to get permission from TdP organisers.

Also Carr riding two GTs in his first WT year at 22 is a bit surprising.

 

[Koronin]

I think you just answered your own question. ;-)

Doesn’t being a “terrible” TTer basically make you NOT an all-rounder. You cannot be an all-rounder and totally suck at one important element.

Then again it may be telling in today’s cycling that fans no longer consider being a strong TTer a pre-requisite for being an all-rounder.

And it used to be called the “race of truth”…

Btw, I grant you and everyone here who pointed out that Bardet does have more than one skill. I was exaggerating to make my point. I like Bardet as a rider. I simply hope that he never wins a GT because it had almost no ITT in it…

Valverde wasn't exactly very good at TT's until his ban when he took the opportunity to actually learn how to ride them. When he came back from his ban his TTing was inconsistent and now it's back to being poor again. Pre 2010 Valverde was good at climbing, sprinting, biking handling, descending, positioning, but wasn't very good at TTs. He was still a very good all rounder.

So yes Bardet is an all rounder.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Roglič in maillot rojo before or after stage 3?

 

[RENS99]

I wonder if that will be enough to trigger the Extreme Weather Protocol or they are going to always use it only to avoid cold and rain because they are a shameless bunch of pussies...

This heat will definitely have an impact. Roglic usually performs well in the heat, any GC contenders that tend to struggle with these temperatures? I know Wellens would DNF during the prologue already if he was here.

 

[staubsauger]

This heat will definitely have an impact. Roglic usually performs well in the heat, any GC contenders that tend to struggle with these temperatures? I know Wellens would DNF during the prologue already if he was here.

Landa!

Bardet had a heat stroke at the 2015 Tour de France as well.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Shame the Dawwg isn't racing this, he would massacre this lot in the heat!

 

[Red Rick]

Spoiler

We went over this yesterday before I moved it to the WvA thread cause it's not really on topic. Let's not continue it in here.

 

[ice&fire]

Roglič in maillot rojo before or after stage 3?

He's top favorite to win stage 1

 

[broppo]

Roglič in maillot rojo before or after stage 3?

he is a massive favourite to win stage 1

 

[cen]

Roglic will give 110% just so his thread is renamed back to "is the new Rominger".

 

[staubsauger]

His strengths are in the mountains and hills, U23 bronze in Innsbruck (where he rode alone against bigger countries). Surprised about co-captaincy role though, I would have expected better results from French .Pro or .1 races before he would get that.

Time trialling is the main part that needs improving.

Now Hänninen has been removed from the startlist altogether!

 

[CyclistAbi]

Roglič in maillot rojo through and through?

 

[CyclistAbi]

A couple of days for holidays on my side. After return hope to see Roglič in maillot rojo.

See ya.