A pair of David Walsh interviews - Clinic Edition

[thehog]

@thehog

Is that a new record (fastest) debunking a sky myth?

Bots-R-Us have gone a little wacky today. I have to check of there was a full moon last night!?!

It's funny you know. All those European teams have been lazy since 1999. They keep using the same tired old training plans of just going out riding

No one else had a coach. No one.

 

[thehog]

That interview is more subtle than you suggest

Quoting Wiggo:
"All the other stuff that’s come on with Landis and things like that is one for the courts and whether the truth will ever come out is down to this investigation. I think time will tell with that."

I read someone who has been various versions of what happened. He is hoping for the truth to come out.

In time it did...

I thought it was at the Tour?

You forgot to add in the "subtle" comments from the same article.

“I’ve always been a bit of a fan of Lance and have sided on the side of innocent until proven guilty with him. There isn’t an athlete or a cyclist out there that isn’t more tested than he is, certainly since his comeback, he’s probably been the most tested cyclist in the pro peloton and you take that on face value and that he’s never failed a drugs test and until he does he’s clean. That’s how I’ve always had as a stance on Lance.”

“I think you have to question Landis’ credibility because he lied under oath before and the stories that you hear about him drinking and things like that and you know, [making] telephone calls to people I know, threatening them with things, you just think that the guy appears to not all be there.

Yes very subtle

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Because there are different natural levels of talent, before doping gets involved. The teams with the big budgets can afford to buy the best talent. Whether they are doped or not thereafter is another matter but the simple fact is that if you made a list of the top 10 sprinters, top 10 rouleurs, top 10 puncheurs and top 10 climbers, very few would be racing for FDJ.

So Thibaut Pinot, Sandy Casar and all those guys in between who were thought of as France's next GT winner just weren't talented? How about Löfkvist or Gilbert?

Sky buying all the best talent has already been debunked. They bought a bunch of good talent that suited their vision, but not the best talent. They're not BMC. They went the approach of buying all the best talent, which turned out to be mostly wasted money as few of them had much room for improvement.

 

[Netserk]

Sky buying all the best talent has already been debunked. They bought a bunch of good talent that suited their vision, but not the best talent. They're not BMC.

Apropros BMC I think that also shows that riders don't go faster just because the team is rich.

 

[bianchigirl]

From the horses mouth: sky recruitment policy is 100% based on CQ. Funny how the most dominant stage racing team ever is recruited based on an arbitrary, made up ranking system.

Vayer was using SRM with festina, PDM had own chef & best hotel rooms - all been done before. USPS trained harder than they raced. It's all been done before, and all used doping to make the difference.

Good job some of us aren't the fools sky would take us for

 

[Netserk]

From the horses mouth: sky recruitment policy is 100% based on CQ. Funny how the most dominant stage racing team ever is recruited based on an arbitrary, made up ranking system.

Really?

It's the same system UCI used prior to the World Tour. (since then there have been some minor tweaks)

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/info/whats.asp

 

[argyllflyer]

So Thibaut Pinot, Sandy Casar and all those guys in between who were thought of as France's next GT winner just weren't talented? How about Löfkvist or Gilbert?

Sky buying all the best talent has already been debunked. They bought a bunch of good talent that suited their vision, but not the best talent. They're not BMC. They went the approach of buying all the best talent, which turned out to be mostly wasted money as few of them had much room for improvement.

Signing young talent and developing them is not the same as signing proven talent and having ongoing success. FDJ's best riders move on elsewhere for (in theory) greater success. BMC and Sky are very different propositions. BMC seems like a social club, Sky is more like a borstal... going by what seems to be the perception of how the two teams are ran. Give an idiot a million and he'll lose it. Give a genius a million and he'll use it to make double.

Sky's approach seems to be to buy in stage race talent that can be improved upon, but this year they have blatantly also gone for people they know will fit into the current model such as Lopez, Kiryienka and Cataldo. They're all riders other WT teams would gladly have in among their climbing squads.

If the 5 Sky riders who would want to be a leader in their own right all entered a major stage race in separate teams as team leader, they'd be at the right end of the GC. To say otherwise is an outright lie. The only place Sky sorely lack major winning talent presently is in the sprint department, but that doesn't seem to be a major concern for them.

 

[Netserk]

Was Rogers a young unproven talent?

Was Porte?

 

[hrotha]

That interview is more subtle than you suggest

Quoting Wiggo:
"All the other stuff that’s come on with Landis and things like that is one for the courts and whether the truth will ever come out is down to this investigation. I think time will tell with that."

I read someone who has been various versions of what happened. He is hoping for the truth to come out.

In time it did...

JV came here and explicitly confirmed Wiggins KNEW the whole story and was knowingly talking BS in that interview.

 

[Benotti69]

After the track domination and latterly on the road you would think everyone else would learn but they simply dont
Train hard train clean
Win hard win clean

LeMond tried the train hard win hard method. He failed.

Sky are able to beat dopers who are able to train harder then clean riders?

Yeah sure. The Unicorns on tenerife must be bored of Sky by now!

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

LeMond tried the train hard win hard method. He failed.

Sky are able to beat dopers who are able to train harder then clean riders?

Yeah sure. The Unicorns on tenerife must be bored of Sky by now!

Do you think Dan Martin is clean?

 

[Benotti69]

Do you think Dan Martin is clean?

No. I dont think he is clean. I dont think the doping in the sport has abated. So I have to ask myself how do the dopers get beaten? Same way they got beaten before, by better dopers.

I have asked those who believe the sport has cleanED up to show how this is possible and when it happened.

I still see that the majority of people involved in the dark era never got sanctioned or banned. I am talking about DS, doctors, soigneurs etc, not the riders who are in the majority of cases the bottom rung of the ladder in the sport.

Those who enabled doping in cycling decided to retire in 2005 along with Armstrong? Yeah that works alongside skinny riders improving climbing and TTing abilities to the extent of blowing the competition away.

Keep shouting it is cleanER, but without pointing to where it cleanED up and those who make alot of money from doping cleanED up too I wont be swayed by team press releases and former dopers whose path to enlightenment has big questions over it.

In otherwords I am not buying the bullsh!t the sport is selling, it smells the same as that they sold it after Festina, but just a different wrapper.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

No. I dont think he is clean. I dont think the doping in the sport has abated. So I have to ask myself how do the dopers get beaten? Same way they got beaten before, by better dopers.

I have asked those who believe the sport has cleanED up to show how this is possible and when it happened.

I still see that the majority of people involved in the dark era never got sanctioned or banned. I am talking about DS, doctors, soigneurs etc, not the riders who are in the majority of cases the bottom rung of the ladder in the sport.

Those who enabled doping in cycling decided to retire in 2005 along with Armstrong? Yeah that works alongside skinny riders improving climbing and TTing abilities to the extent of blowing the competition away.

Keep shouting it is cleanER, but without pointing to where it cleanED up and those who make alot of money from doping cleanED up too I wont be swayed by team press releases and former dopers whose path to enlightenment has big questions over it.

In otherwords I am not buying the bullsh!t the sport is selling, it smells the same as that they sold it after Festina, but just a different wrapper.

I don't always agree with you but I appreciate your consistency.

 

[Benotti69]

For those looking to David Walsh to out Sky or give them the clean seal of approval, it aint gonna happen.

Sunday Times are not going to print anything that is not solid fact. So will they print another type of 'Emma O'Reilly' story about Sky? No they wont. Newspapers are leaking money and the litigious laws in the UK mean that the ST will not do that again. They'll want a positive test.

Wiggins article is full of weak back tracking, weak excuses and lies. Walsh is leaving it up to the reader to make their mind up. Those with eyes to see will see Wiggins is lying, others who dont want to, wont.

Similar to what happened with Armstrong and those fans crying "never tested positive".....

Nothing has changed in pro cycling.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

For those looking to David Walsh to out Sky or give them the clean seal of approval, it aint gonna happen.

Sunday Times are not going to print anything that is not solid fact. So will they print another type of 'Emma O'Reilly' story about Sky? No they wont. Newspapers are leaking money and the litigious laws in the UK mean that the ST will not do that again. They'll want a positive test.

Wiggins article is full of weak back tracking, weak excuses and lies. Walsh is leaving it up to the reader to make their mind up. Those with eyes to see will see Wiggins is lying, others who dont want to, wont.

Similar to what happened with Armstrong and those fans crying "never tested positive".....

Nothing has changed in pro cycling.

Like I said.. I don't always agree with you.

 

[The Hitch]

No it wasn't a throwaway comment.

He said it several times and not at the Tour. He wasn't under stress. It was premeditated.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-calls-for-biological-passport-data-to-be-made-public

how can anyone defend sky when they are caught lying through their teeth like this.

 

[thehog]

how can anyone defend sky when they are caught lying through their teeth like this.

He's full of it.

The Bots keep passing Wiggins comments off as pub talk but he knew exactly what he was saying and why he was saying it.

He was banking on the fact that Armstrong wasn't going down.

He loved Lance and is still in love with him.

Wiggins knew Z doped, that Barry doped and he knew Lance doped.

All this stuff about his kids is just utter c(ap.

Wiggins just keeps lying. Walsh really should be calling him out on it. But at least he asked the question.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

He's full of it.

Yes, would not catch you making stuff up eh, Hoggy.

 

[Benotti69]

Yes, would not catch you making stuff up eh, Hoggy.

Well Hoggy aint riding for the number 1 pro team winning the TdF.

But Wiggins gives as good quotable lines as Hoggy so they are on a par there.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Well Hoggy aint riding for the number 1 pro team winning the TdF.

I am sure in a few posts he will claim that he did in fact do that a few years ago.

 

[Benotti69]

I am sure in a few posts he will claim that he did in fact do that a few years ago.

Well, hoggy is an anonymous forum poster and we can take what he says any way we please, but when the last TdF winner is proven to be lying that in cycling terms means something is not right and history has shown it to be doping.

Well done Wiggins for outing yourself as a liar and therein someone who has gone to the dark side of the sport. Chapeau it now is merely a matter of time till the facts come out. We only had to wait for 15 years or so for your hero to get done, so we have a 'track' record.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Well, hoggy is an anonymous forum poster and we can take what he says any way we please, but when the last TdF winner is proven to be lying that in cycling terms means something is not right and history has shown it to be doping.

Well done Wiggins for outing yourself as a liar and therein someone who has gone to the dark side of the sport. Chapeau it now is merely a matter of time till the facts come out. We only had to wait for 15 years or so for your hero to get done, so we have a 'track' record.

You can choose to take what any professional cyclist says as you please as well. And you do as do many on this forum.

If you believe everything a professional cyclist says then more fool you.

 

[Benotti69]

You can choose to take what any professional cyclist says as you please as well. And you do as do many on this forum.

If you believe everything a professional cyclist says then more fool you.

It easy to discern where a rider is lying when what they have said is a matter of public record.

Do you believe Wiggins and Sky when they tell you they are clean?

Well then more fool you.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

That was quite the tearjerker from Brad.

''Daddy was an alcoholic and a drug addict, I wont do that to my kids''

So, what happened to Beer Brad?

Not even pointing to studies on addiction and genes.

The timeline for Brad's transformation is getting clearer though.

And yes, read this kinda crap before, then it was cancer, now it is addiction.

 

[thehog]

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