ADD ( Anti Doping Denmark) report..

[neineinei]

A source, who was part of Team CSC in 2008 and who wish to remain anonymous, have told the study group that the Spanish cyclist and winner of the 2008 Tour de France Carlos Sastre, who rode for Team CSC from 2002 to 2008, told him that Bjarne Riis in 2008 suggested to him (Sastre) to use blood doping with small bags. Riis should have said to Sastre: "I guess you kan still use small blood bags. The others are Using it. We know for sure that Discovery are Using it. "The source also believe that Riis had this knowledge of Discovery from Ivan Basso, who rode for Discovery in 2007. This invitation from Riis to Sastre should, according to the anonymous source have been a contributing factor to Sastre despite his Tour de France victory in 2008 left Team CSC in 2008.

 

[neineinei]

Bjarne Riis has to study the group indicated that it is true that Sastre has told him that he was angry and felt that Riis had encouraged him to use blood doping. Riis says, however, to study the group that Sastre has misunderstood him. According to Riis took the conversation between Riis and Sastre in their common room in connection with training in the Alps up to the Tour de France in 2008 and focused on whether there were still riders who took blood doping. Riis has - according Riis himself - during the interview said that it was still possible to blood dope, and Sastre must according Riis have misunderstood this and taken it as a suggestion to blood dope.
According to Bjarne Riis had Sastre thus perceived "I guess you can still use small blood bags" as biased Sastre personally and not in the sense that Bjarne Riis believed, namely that "I think / guess that you can still use small blood bags "- ie a general view that was not directed specifically at Sastre.
Riis also explained to the study group that it first dawned on him that Sastre must have misunderstood him when he several months later talked to him during the Vuelta in the autumn of 2008. It was here that Sastre said he believed that Riis had encouraged him to take blood doping. Riis explained that he told Sastre that he misunderstood him, but do not know if Sastre accepted progressed as a misunderstanding. Riis also stressed that he has no problem with Sastre today.

 

[hrotha]

Sastre's story (not just from this report, but in general) is most puzzling. It's amazing that we still don't know anything at all about what he did, or how, or who he worked with.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Asked whether they even asked about Frank Schleck linked to Fuentes to clarify the truth in the story, several riders told to study the group that they were reluctant to interfere in the matter. As one of the riders study group spoke with put it: [b]"The fact that some riders have been to Fuentes, means that I have a job."[/b]

is a litle cryptic,
does this mean he and the team had a sponsor to pay salaries courtesy of Fuentes? one could argue jobs are zero sum in the peloton, and wins are zero sum, and sponsor income ebbs and flows in a cycle

 

[sniper]

2008 csc team selection:
"Riis decided to overlook Sastre’s preferred bodyguard, Iñigo Cuesta, and chose instead an in-form Nicki Sørensen"
http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/06/news/road/csc-saxo-bank-names-tour-squad_78833#tyJTBItwBpzvSmP5.99

Team CSC-Saxo Bank for 2008 Tour de France
Fabian Cancellara (Swi)
Carlos Sastre (Spa)
Andy Schleck (Lux)
Fränk Schleck (Lux)
Nicki Sørensen (Den)
Jens Voigt (Ger)
Stuart O’Grady (Aus)
Kurt-Asle Arvesen (Nor)
Volodymir Gustov (Ukr)
http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/06/news/road/csc-saxo-bank-names-tour-squad_78833#tyJTBItwBpzvSmP5.99

 

[Von Mises]

Re:

Sastre's story (not just from this report, but in general) is most puzzling. It's amazing that we still don't know anything at all about what he did, or how, or who he worked with.

Maybe Sastre was clean?

 

[veji11]

Sadly this report has the same traveils as the USADA : all riders and trainers skillfully hiding behind the SOL and the authorities cowardly endorsing it... Some guys should be run out of the staffs of those teams.

Cookson is proving to be more than a disappointment, a joke.

 

[staubsauger]

LOL it's always a misunderstanding. First with Rasmussen, then with Hamilton, later with Sastre.

Bjarne Riis "the cancer of cycling!™"

On a side note: Aren't chicken and eagle pals again!?

 

[sniper]

Re:

Sastre's story (not just from this report, but in general) is most puzzling. It's amazing that we still don't know anything at all about what he did, or how, or who he worked with.

isn't the same true for, say, Evans 2011, Pereiro 2006.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHU5M7YyXu0
Pulling the group at 50:00, definitely cleans

 

[mrhender]

P. 54

Similarly, several interviewees pointed out to study the group that the
time of inspection has been easy to understand for the observant athletes, coaches and
leaders. Often it has been the same inspectors who have been used, and they have built various routines associated with the work. It has not as controller designed big to hide out - probably from an idea that was not known in communities, and that it did not mean much, the teams could figure out that there would be a check in the morning. It has often meant that inspectors have arrived at the same hotel or a hotel near where the riders have been accommodated.

Interviewees told the study group, there were very observation,before you as a rider or team could know that that had arrived doping controllers and control therefore be introduced next morning. This could provide enough time for either not to take doping at night or making sure to dilute the blood with added plasma or even check out with excuse about an injury.

Some interviewees have gone so far as to say that they almost could "set the clock
by doping inspectors ", eg. when their whereabouts revealed that they had come home to
Denmark after a stay abroad. It goes without saying that a system where the athletes more
or less can figure out when they're being tested, can never be sufficiently effective. Several the interviewees who are current riders, has told the investigation team that doping controls in Italy is also predictable because the riders who live in the same area, typically been tested in the same place when either the UCI or ADD have sent inspectors out. Thus, it has been possible to give each other know when doping checks are in the area. Evidence suggests that anti-doping authorities of their test planning has been too naive in relation to the massive Cheating they faced.

Doping tests out of competition is in itself a means to streamline the fight against doping, but prior to 2005 it was very rare that cyclists were tested out of competition. It did in Denmark and some other countries, but usually not in the UCI . Anyone who would cheat could therefore with a little forethought dope during training and make sure that the substance was out of the body during competition.

 

[Labomba]

The big problem is how this report is made and the deals made with the cyclists etc. prior to interviews. You make people testify and you give them the opportunity to remove whatever they want from the report afterwards.

Makes no sense..

It is easy to see that this report is made by amateurs who let us now how shocked they are about the cyclists' storys but fail to include them in the report. Like teenagers who meet their big idols back stage for the first time the team behind the report writes:

"Hvis jeres historier om daglig frygt for at blive opdaget, konstant dårlig samvittighed over for familie, venner og fans samt ubehag ved at bruge sprøjter og piller blot gør halvt så meget indtryk på unge cykeltalenter, som det gjorde på undersøgelsesgruppen, vil meget være vundet i dopingbekæmpelsens tjeneste. "

"If your (pro cyclist) stories about the daily fear of being discovered and feeling constant guilt towards your family, friends and fans as well as discomfort by using syringes and pills - just will have half of the affect on young cycling as it had on the "study group", much will be won in the fight against doping

And did Carols dope in 2008 and how?... no answer in the report - maybe it is not important...

 

[Christian]

Re: Re:

Asked whether they even asked about Frank Schleck linked to Fuentes to clarify the truth in the story, several riders told to study the group that they were reluctant to interfere in the matter. As one of the riders study group spoke with put it: [b]"The fact that some riders have been to Fuentes, means that I have a job."[/b]

is a litle cryptic,
does this mean he and the team had a sponsor to pay salaries courtesy of Fuentes? one could argue jobs are zero sum in the peloton, and wins are zero sum, and sponsor income ebbs and flows in a cycle

Maybe it means that riders who blood dope and get good results for the team as a consequence, sort of maintain everyone afloat, and are the reason why less prolific riders have a job?

 

[mrhender]

P. 65

The ABP...

The study group has in his interviews asked especially the contemporary riders on their assessment of the effectiveness of the biological passport, especially blood passport in the recent fight against doping. Many riders have said that it is the right way forward and that they want to be confirmed by blood tests.

Some riders, however, expressed skepticism. A rider goes so far as to say that "blood profiles are indifferent, if you know what to do." Another says that "it is suspicious when riders suddenly away from a collection in a few days", implied that this can be done cheating with doping in small amounts that will not cause abnormal fluctuations in blood profile. Several riders have pointed out the widespread use of altitude training as a way to "cheat" blood profile, as you know any fluctuations caused by micro dosages of blood or EPO, will be able to explain them know that you have been at altitude training camp. Mount Teide on Tenerife and Livigno in Italy mentioned by several riders as popular altitude training sites.

And:

More recently sown doubts about whether practitioners can use their blood profile for adjusting a doping use. As it is now, athletes access to their measured blood values in ADAMS. There is a risk that this information can be used to adjust the doping, for example. by using micro doses of EPO. There is, therefore, after the group's opinion because that WADA is considering introduction new procedures whereby access to the blood values is delayed for athletes or entirely withheld. The challenge of reflection on this issue, on the blood values should be considered to be medical information (which the athlete should have access to) or investigative information (which the practitioner does not necessarily have access to). This should WADA soon clarify.

 

[Bronstein]

Re:

Bjarne Riis has to study the group indicated that it is true that Sastre has told him that he was angry and felt that Riis had encouraged him to use blood doping. Riis says, however, to study the group that Sastre has misunderstood him. According to Riis took the conversation between Riis and Sastre in their common room in connection with training in the Alps up to the Tour de France in 2008 and focused on whether there were still riders who took blood doping. Riis has - according Riis himself - during the interview said that it was still possible to blood dope, and Sastre must according Riis have misunderstood this and taken it as a suggestion to blood dope.
According to Bjarne Riis had Sastre thus perceived "I guess you can still use small blood bags" as biased Sastre personally and not in the sense that Bjarne Riis believed, namely that "I think / guess that you can still use small blood bags "- ie a general view that was not directed specifically at Sastre.
Riis also explained to the study group that it first dawned on him that Sastre must have misunderstood him when he several months later talked to him during the Vuelta in the autumn of 2008. It was here that Sastre said he believed that Riis had encouraged him to take blood doping. Riis explained that he told Sastre that he misunderstood him, but do not know if Sastre accepted progressed as a misunderstanding. Riis also stressed that he has no problem with Sastre today.

Sounds like something from a Seinfeld episode.

 

[neineinei]

A currently active rider has however told the investigation team that one can still come across riders who train in the mountains in neutral clothing.

 

[Netserk]

I thought Men In Black was so 2007?

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Asked whether they even asked about Frank Schleck linked to Fuentes to clarify the truth in the story, several riders told to study the group that they were reluctant to interfere in the matter. As one of the riders study group spoke with put it: [b]"The fact that some riders have been to Fuentes, means that I have a job."[/b]

is a litle cryptic,
does this mean he and the team had a sponsor to pay salaries courtesy of Fuentes? one could argue jobs are zero sum in the peloton, and wins are zero sum, and sponsor income ebbs and flows in a cycle

Maybe it means that riders who blood dope and get good results for the team as a consequence, sort of maintain everyone afloat, and are the reason why less prolific riders have a job?

yep, I was ambiguous..

I meant "the team had a sponsor to pay salaries courtesy of Fuentes <unsaid> doping the team leaders who got the results to justify the sponsorship contract.

 

[neineinei]

It became harder to get hold of EPO in Italy around 2003, but it was still easy to get hold of it in for instance Spain and Switzerland.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

A currently active rider has however told the investigation team that one can still come across riders who train in the mountains in neutral clothing.

pugdog told me she saw Stuey mate climbing around the hills down in (? Nice, pugdog, help me out), then in non-team clothing. (coula been Cannes or Monaco) *yes, hills around the district

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Sastre's story (not just from this report, but in general) is most puzzling. It's amazing that we still don't know anything at all about what he did, or how, or who he worked with.

isn't the same true for, say, Evans 2011, Pereiro 2006.

We know Pereiro worked with Losa at one point, at least.

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

Kind of make sense Bjarne got fired at the spot. To the names of Festina, Once, USPS we can now add CSC. '

Will be indeed intresting to see how Cannondale acts against Weltz.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Kind of make sense Bjarne got fired at the spot. To the names of Festina, Once, USPS we can now add CSC. '

Will be indeed intresting to see how Cannondale acts against Weltz.

Why? The report clearly states that CSC unlike the other teams mentioned, didn't organize the doping.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Sastre's story (not just from this report, but in general) is most puzzling. It's amazing that we still don't know anything at all about what he did, or how, or who he worked with.

isn't the same true for, say, Evans 2011, Pereiro 2006.

We know Pereiro worked with Losa at one point, at least.

true.

well, we can now say "We know Sastre worked with Riis at one point, at least"

jokes aside, you're right of course, Sastre is an interesting case and has done remarkably well to keep his name out of the gossips.

 

[BYOP88]

Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHU5M7YyXu0
Pulling the group at 50:00, definitely cleans

What's more funny is #58 being up there with that elite group of 'climbers'.