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Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

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cellardoor said:
Let's be fair, Roche is never going to say his team leader lacks panache. I think he chose his words carefully and made a fair assessment of the two riders, without actually saying the approach of one or other is the better.

Contador is worried and Froome is confident.
Hmmm I'd say Contador is simply more a complete cyclist. Froome has only tactic and that's ride up that mountain as fast as possible. I'm sure he has confidence, but regarding using momentum I think Froome simply lacks race panache and creativity.

p.s. I'm no Froome hater. I like the guy. Before you misinterpred my post as an Contador fanboy post.
 
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I mentioned this in the Sagan thread but there's a video over there showing him pulling the whole Tinkoff team to bridge the gap to the small front group when the initial echelon was formed at I think around 48km...He was awesome yesterday nearly winning the stage as well after puncturing. It's left me with a lot more confidence for Alberto on the cobbles. He didn't have a great early season but he seems to be coming good at the right time to help Alberto in the Tour.
 
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Roches description is actually both ridiculous and not true. The problem with saying like he did is not that Dawg could be relaxed and confident but insinuating Alberto are not. The other thing is that somebody should inform Nico this is a race and in races you actually try to win and that racers do these things. In races. From time to time Dawg tries to take boni seconds like yesterday and that is definitively what i would call exploit a weakness and not revealing for a relaxed guy. In Roches world we would have 10 transit stages before the mountains.

Second of all. It is a different personality/leadership thing. Alberto rides up and down, talking, yesterday he even could be seen shouting out orders and giving instructions like a boss. Afterwards they hug, shake hands, jokes. One would not in a milion year see Froome doing these things since he is too busy staring on his stem for that. He seem to be the more introverted person who doesnt feel himself like the natural leader/patron but have gotten that position due to his ability of riding a mountain. And in this atmosphere the Sky bus seems like a graveyard in comparison.

Froome aint the alpha dog around.
 
Roche is right, but still took a little jab using the word "worried". The difference is between the two riders is obvious enough though. Also yesterday, Contador called the shots and made decisions. Froome on the other hand does what he is told by the DS. Off the bike he does what he is told by his wife. And he's successful with it. There's no reason for him to act like a hero on the bike. If pedalling hard is the only thing he can do, that's what it is. He will never be a nice rider to watch or one inspiring his teammates.

But on the other hand, yesterday he managed to stay on the right wheel to gain 4s on Contador.
 
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LaFlorecita said:
Miburo said:
I don't see how he talked down Contador. Roche made a very accurate description of contador and froome.
Calling Contador 'worried' because he is always looking for ways to gain time and Froome 'confident' because he only knows one way to race isn't having a dig at Contador?

Alberto is always worried about making the most of opponents’ weaknesses, where Froome is more confident in his own capabilities and just tries to ride off
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/tour-de-france/contador-targets-opponents-weaknesses-froome-rides-his-own-race-180425#MtrftYGv7mzMTExW.99

Worried is maybe a poor choice of words in that sentence but in the context of it, i don't think it's meant disrespectful. I could be wrong of course.

But you can also see it as a diss to Froome, he don't care how the other riders feel, i think that's dumb for example. All the great riders feel the other riders out no matter how you good you are, froome is just a machine according to froome.
 
On re-reading it, I do think there is a bit of a dig. The fact that he chose to mention attacking on a wet descent as an example of Contador exploiting weakness, does imply taking unnecessary risks and is perhaps a subtle or not so subtle reference to him crashing out of the Tour. I remember at the time a lot of people came out of the woodwork saying that Contador is a dangerous risk-taker, which personally I think is rubbish.
 
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ad9898 said:
I mentioned this in the Sagan thread but there's a video over there showing him pulling the whole Tinkoff team to bridge the gap to the small front group when the initial echelon was formed at I think around 48km...He was awesome yesterday nearly winning the stage as well after puncturing. It's left me with a lot more confidence for Alberto on the cobbles. He didn't have a great early season but he seems to be coming good at the right time to help Alberto in the Tour.


Yes, Sagan was ab absolute beast yesterday, he deserved that win so much.
 
If we give credit for Roche not being utterly naive / dumb (I have no idea if he is or not), then I am pretty sure he was having a dig, but one has also to realise it was reported in CW, so he could have said loads of more things, giving a more balanced impression of both which didn't make the article. That said, it does seem to me that he is saying the "right" things reflecting his change of team, which on one level isn't surprising, but is perhaps a little disappointing. I'm not a big fan of snide digs on individuals you've been working with, feels like a breach of the trusted position you once had. Either keep your council, be diplomatic, or, if you really did not get on, have the courage to go for it and explain why relations broke down, but be respectful.

Maybe it is better PR, but TS always seems to have quite a nice team spirit. Whatever Contador's leadership on the road, he doesn't seem a dominant personality off it, and this probably allows others to relax and shine in their down time - someone like Lance would have to be alpha in all situations. Bjaerne's 'paternal' style probably helped no end in that department. I always thought this kind of environment would be a great one for Sagan, actually, who has the potential to be a lot more volatile, helping him through that tricky 'boy wonder' stage to a more mature, focused and slightly more serious rider.
 
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cellardoor said:
ad9898 said:
Glad Contador's experience and tactics bought him some good luck for a change. However the rider who had the most luck today was Nibali, he lost 1.28 yet he should've been fined and docked another minute for blatant drafting of the cars after he punctured and even that wouldn't have been as bad as it could have been as without the cars he'd never have caught that second group.

Nibali was strong yesterday, he'd have got back to the group with or without the cars. In any case, the group would wait as they needed Astana working on the front. Plus they had the whole team there to send back and help him if required.

Well if the group had to wait for Nibali/ Astana had to go back for Nibali, that would have been extra time lost for Nibali and Quintana which is the point.

No one is saying Nibali would have been dropped and lost 10 mins alltogether. What is being said is that if he didn't get back on so easy through the cars, Astana would have had to go back for him, meaning less energy for the chase, meaning they don't keep the gap down to 1.25.
 
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The Hitch said:
cellardoor said:
ad9898 said:
Glad Contador's experience and tactics bought him some good luck for a change. However the rider who had the most luck today was Nibali, he lost 1.28 yet he should've been fined and docked another minute for blatant drafting of the cars after he punctured and even that wouldn't have been as bad as it could have been as without the cars he'd never have caught that second group.

Nibali was strong yesterday, he'd have got back to the group with or without the cars. In any case, the group would wait as they needed Astana working on the front. Plus they had the whole team there to send back and help him if required.

Well if the group had to wait for Nibali/ Astana had to go back for Nibali, that would have been extra time lost for Nibali and Quintana which is the point.

No one is saying Nibali would have been dropped and lost 10 mins alltogether. What is being said is that if he didn't get back on so easy through the cars, Astana would have had to go back for him, meaning less energy for the chase, meaning they don't keep the gap down to 1.25.

I actually felt the poster I was responding to was implying exactly this as he or she mentions that a 1min penalty would not be sufficient to offset the gain made. Whilst they may have lost some time sending the team back to pace him or getting the group to wait, I really can't see it being more than a minute.
 
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The Hitch said:
cellardoor said:
ad9898 said:
Glad Contador's experience and tactics bought him some good luck for a change. However the rider who had the most luck today was Nibali, he lost 1.28 yet he should've been fined and docked another minute for blatant drafting of the cars after he punctured and even that wouldn't have been as bad as it could have been as without the cars he'd never have caught that second group.

Nibali was strong yesterday, he'd have got back to the group with or without the cars. In any case, the group would wait as they needed Astana working on the front. Plus they had the whole team there to send back and help him if required.

Well if the group had to wait for Nibali/ Astana had to go back for Nibali, that would have been extra time lost for Nibali and Quintana which is the point.

No one is saying Nibali would have been dropped and lost 10 mins alltogether. What is being said is that if he didn't get back on so easy through the cars, Astana would have had to go back for him, meaning less energy for the chase, meaning they don't keep the gap down to 1.25.

You make a fair point, I was wondering why no team mates came back for Nibali... on the drafting issue I understand all riders do it a certain amount (except Sagan yesterday who was awesome).. I just think Nibali over did it and didn't get penalised. I suppose in retrospect I wouldn't have noticed as much but the whole Astana thing doesn't sit well with me, what with what happened last year(clinic), Lars Boom this year in the tour etc... any misdemeanor just gets amplified in my eyes.
 
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ad9898 said:
The Hitch said:
cellardoor said:
ad9898 said:
Glad Contador's experience and tactics bought him some good luck for a change. However the rider who had the most luck today was Nibali, he lost 1.28 yet he should've been fined and docked another minute for blatant drafting of the cars after he punctured and even that wouldn't have been as bad as it could have been as without the cars he'd never have caught that second group.

Nibali was strong yesterday, he'd have got back to the group with or without the cars. In any case, the group would wait as they needed Astana working on the front. Plus they had the whole team there to send back and help him if required.

Well if the group had to wait for Nibali/ Astana had to go back for Nibali, that would have been extra time lost for Nibali and Quintana which is the point.

No one is saying Nibali would have been dropped and lost 10 mins alltogether. What is being said is that if he didn't get back on so easy through the cars, Astana would have had to go back for him, meaning less energy for the chase, meaning they don't keep the gap down to 1.25.

You make a fair point, I was wondering why no team mates came back for Nibali... on the drafting issue I understand all riders do it a certain amount (except Sagan yesterday who was awesome).. I just think Nibali over did it and didn't get penalised. I suppose in retrospect I wouldn't have noticed as much but the whole Astana thing doesn't sit well with me, what with what happened last year(clinic), Lars Boom this year in the tour etc... any misdemeanor just gets amplified in my eyes.

To be fair, just because we didn't see Sagz drafting, doesn't mean it didn't happen…unless you had different pictures from me? Not that he could have been hanging behind anyone that long given the time he clocked.
 
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Miburo said:
Today Contador's first stage victory in the tour since tour '09 annecy

That would be something nice. But unfortunately I just can't see it happen. He might try but I have a feeling he will fade in the last 200 meters or so. Valverde and Martin favorites for me. But positioning in the last 20km will be extremely important. If you are caught behind a crash on those roads it could be game over. Bennati, Kreuziger, Rogers, Valgren (and Sagan) will have a job to do.

I have noticed that they are saving Majka for the mountains (similar to last year) even though I thought he might be a GC backup, but since he took the ITT very easy and didn't bother yesterday, it clearly shows that plan A is Contador GC and plan B would again be stage hunting (and Sagan for green, which is not even plan B, since after yesterday I have no doubt that barring a catastrophe is very likely to happen).
 
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Kwibus said:
With regards to Roche. It's almost as he's talking Contador down for being a real cyclist...

And with regards to Nibali and drafting.. Ofcourse he drafted. I don't care tbh.
yep, drafting should be allowed after punctures imo.
 
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SeriousSam said:
Miburo said:
Today Contador's first stage victory in the tour since tour '09 annecy
Unless Ryo predicted he will be dropped today, I cannot see this happening
lolz :D
yep, I can see him to be the best from the GC guys (except valverde and martin, who is not a gc contedner so..) but not winning, he just lacks the rhytm imho.
 
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If you remember this

1306447202_740215_0000000001_noticia_normal.jpg


and this

paolo_tiralongo_y_contador_vuelta_estapa_2012_astana.jpg


And understand why did that happened, then you know that Contador is a leader and is most of the time loved and respected by his teammates.

From my POV, I dont think that Contador is always worried, he just race and feels the race, that's why he attacks, He doesnt have anyone telling him what to do. I can remember some interviews from Riis saying that Alberto attacked just cuz he felt that he had to do it and felt that he could gain sometime. Most of the time his attacks deliver something and that's quite impressive cuz that give you and idea that he knows how to read the race.
 
Contador has a very strong team, but he is wasting again his team all the Tour to be at the front and even sometimes control the race.. that is not possible along 3 weaks, and he will destroy the team again like in the Giro.. it is true that he issaving some riders, as yesterday Basso that just wirked at the begining but later he didnt mind to lose big time, but that way that kind of people at the end al the Tour will have all the work for them...