Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

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Re: Re:

BlurryVII said:
TI-Raleigh said:
In the high mountains of the Vuelta (specifically stages 16 and 20), the race dynamic was very similar. Froome attacked Contador and they both sailed clear of the rest of the field. Froome initiated the attack and pulled most of the way, until Contador jumped with a kilometer to go.

Contador was the better climber, but because of how the big stages played out, I think that the margin that he was better over Froome has been exaggerated.
The thing is, on top of stage 16 and 20, Contador also dropped him in first and second week. It's not exaggerated, he was much better.
Contador prepared better than Froome la Vuelta, but they showed a similar level, Froome did more mistakes, and Contador deserved to win, but in terms of level thay showed similar, Contador droped him in some stages, and Froome was better in another stages.

To be at the wheel of Froome if you are at a similar similar allow you to put 15 seconds on him at the end, that is normal.

Both at the same shape we will see,I hope, next year, but according what we saw this years, Froome is better, better in ITT and better in the mountains in general, enought difference to dont be suplied with the experience and strategy of Contador, but luck could play a role: crashes, weather, etc...
 
Jul 4, 2015
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dacooley said:
i can not help wondering why the debate is still on. blurry sums it up pretty clearly 'contador is the best climber if you disagree you don't know **** about cycling'. i don't know how the discussion can logically unfold after this statement.
Keep telling yourself that, fact is we won't know until next year's tour, untill then it is open to debate.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Re: Re:

Walkman said:
BlurryVII said:
Walkman said:
Uhm…no. :confused:

Maybe watch the race next time?
Maybe you too? Valdenieares - San miguel de Aralar - lagos de Covadonga - La Farrapona - Ancares.

Not on every MTF, hence the 'Almost'. Learn to read.
Haha, I was baiting you to answer me. Yet you still can't come up with the quotes to back up your claim of me being a hypocrite. I wonder why? :rolleyes:
Quotes? You think I'm a bot who knows all you posted since you're on here? All I know is that you pick who's doped and who's not. Already had a discussion about that, not worth losing your time to say you have your doubts on everyone because the only one you look down upon is Contador while you praise everyone else.
 
Re:

dacooley said:
i can not help wondering why the debate is still on. blurry sums it up pretty clearly 'contador is the best climber if you disagree you don't know **** about cycling'. i don't know how the discussion can logically unfold after this statement.
No sure if you actually agree with the statement or just pointing out how absurd it is.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Re:

dacooley said:
i can not help wondering why the debate is still on. blurry sums it up pretty clearly 'contador is the best climber if you disagree you don't know **** about cycling'. i don't know how the discussion can logically unfold after this statement.
Sure someone who just picks randomly Tour 13' and Giro 15' (2 crashes and double attempt) to prove his point that Contador is not the best climber doesn't know much or rather isn't very logical.

You know I can do that as well, Froome is not the best climber, which we saw at the Giro 10' and Vuelta 12'.
 
Re: Re:

Ramon Koran said:
dacooley said:
i can not help wondering why the debate is still on. blurry sums it up pretty clearly 'contador is the best climber if you disagree you don't know **** about cycling'. i don't know how the discussion can logically unfold after this statement.
Keep telling yourself that, fact is we won't know until next year's tour, untill then it is open to debate.
i was being ironic. from my perspective that was just extremely biased reasoning.
 
Its all a bit weird to me. When he said hed do Giro Tour I thought at least there must be some sort of a plan in place. Right? Because afterall , Contador did have a good run at a Giro Tour double, at least the process, in 2011. He saw that its difficult to perform in TDF after Giro. He also knows that the top riders are faster than they were in 2011 - a slow year.

So surely this year, he would have known that doing it the same way wouldn't work. You need something different or it won't work. Some new training techniques (wink) motivation, whatever, something different.

But now its clear there was, on the contrary, no plan at all. He went into the Tour with no idea how it would go. Basically resigned to failure because if you don't even know what form you will be on, and feel tired, and you go up against Chris Vroome you are going to get your ass kicked. Which is what happened.

And they didn't even have any kind of team. for either Giro or Tour either. They had to have known there was no chance of winning.

Now, maybe Contador decided that he would rather win a Giro than likely come 2nd in the Tour. If he did that, fair enough. Much better decision making than Andy Schleck. Though he might as well have gone for another Vuelta in that case.

But now he says next year he will go for the Tour. So does he think he can actually win it? When hes going to be a year weaker and Froome and Quintana a year stronger?

Or is there some sort of a deal in place between the "big 4" that each year one does the Giro and next year Froome will, opening up the chance for Contador.

It depends how Contador really sees himself. If he acknowledges he is not good enough to beat Froome, then he did the right decision, and took a Giro home. If however he thinks he can beat Froome then its silly to waste a chance at doing so when you are still just about in peak years.

Ultimately Contador will be judged by how many Tours he's won. Froome has now (oficially) as many as him. He's now almost certainly going to retire with more. Contador's status as the best gt rider of his generation look to be slipping away.

So he'll retire now knowing the Giro Tour double wasn't possible in 2015. Something he knew anyway. I hope when he retires he won't have this other doubt lingering in his mind. - Could I have won a Tour de France post suspension.
 
Jul 4, 2015
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Re: Re:

dacooley said:
Ramon Koran said:
dacooley said:
i can not help wondering why the debate is still on. blurry sums it up pretty clearly 'contador is the best climber if you disagree you don't know **** about cycling'. i don't know how the discussion can logically unfold after this statement.
Keep telling yourself that, fact is we won't know until next year's tour, untill then it is open to debate.
i was being ironic. from my perspective that was just extremely biased reasoning.
Yeah, sorry misunderstood.
 
Sorry, but Vuelta doesn't mean much. Its the Tour de France. That's where you prove you are the best. Now maybe Contador would have done that in 2014 but there's no guarantee of that at all. Clearly in 2013 he showed he wasn't stronger and this year he showed he's nowhere near as strong as his fans think. The bottom line is that Froome has comfortably flown away from France with 2 Tour de Frances and was also stronger in a 3rd. Contador hasn't even made a podium since 2010.
 
Contador 7(9) GTs Froome 2
Froome still has a long long way to go before he is on Contador's level in terms of greatness.
Typical Hitch nonsense ;)
Contador prepared differently this year than in 2011. But still you just don't know how your body will react to that second GT. Will fatigue kick in yes or no? He knows it now.
It's as he said - he is happy he tried because otherwise he would always be wondering "would it have been possible..?"
Next year he'll go for it like in 2014. He'll have additional motivation and a hopefully perfect preparation. He knows what he needs to do (see 2014). Let's just hope age doesn't catch up with him for another year or so.
 
Re:

The Hitch said:
Its all a bit weird to me. When he said hed do Giro Tour I thought at least there must be some sort of a plan in place. Right? Because afterall , Contador did have a good run at a Giro Tour double, at least the process, in 2011. He saw that its difficult to perform in TDF after Giro. He also knows that the top riders are faster than they were in 2011 - a slow year.

So surely this year, he would have known that doing it the same way wouldn't work. You need something different or it won't work. Some new training techniques (wink) motivation, whatever, something different.

But now its clear there was, on the contrary, no plan at all. He went into the Tour with no idea how it would go. Basically resigned to failure because if you don't even know what form you will be on, and feel tired, and you go up against Chris Vroome you are going to get your ass kicked. Which is what happened.

And they didn't even have any kind of team. for either Giro or Tour either. They had to have known there was no chance of winning.

Now, maybe Contador decided that he would rather win a Giro than likely come 2nd in the Tour. If he did that, fair enough. Much better decision making than Andy Schleck. Though he might as well have gone for another Vuelta in that case.

But now he says next year he will go for the Tour. So does he think he can actually win it? When hes going to be a year weaker and Froome and Quintana a year stronger?

Or is there some sort of a deal in place between the "big 4" that each year one does the Giro and next year Froome will, opening up the chance for Contador.

It depends how Contador really sees himself. If he acknowledges he is not good enough to beat Froome, then he did the right decision, and took a Giro home. If however he thinks he can beat Froome then its silly to waste a chance at doing so when you are still just about in peak years.

Ultimately Contador will be judged by how many Tours he's won. Froome has now (oficially) as many as him. He's now almost certainly going to retire with more. Contador's status as the best gt rider of his generation look to be slipping away.

So he'll retire now knowing the Giro Tour double wasn't possible in 2015. Something he knew anyway. I hope when he retires he won't have this other doubt lingering in his mind. - Could I have won a Tour de France post suspension.
This is something I have thought of. I mean, given last year, he should have had enough faith in his abilities to battle for a Tour victory, but if that indeed was the case, how come he did the Giro? For, as you say, there is no way he actually thought he could win both this year.

Did he feel that he could not match Froome because of his level in the Dauphine? As in, a top for Froome is too much? Or was it, as you say, a "guaranteed" Giro win vs a chance at a Tour win, and he decided to go for the "safe" bet?
 
Re:

The Hitch said:
Its all a bit weird to me. When he said hed do Giro Tour I thought at least there must be some sort of a plan in place. Right? Because afterall , Contador did have a good run at a Giro Tour double, at least the process, in 2011. He saw that its difficult to perform in TDF after Giro. He also knows that the top riders are faster than they were in 2011 - a slow year.

So surely this year, he would have known that doing it the same way wouldn't work. You need something different or it won't work. Some new training techniques (wink) motivation, whatever, something different.

But now its clear there was, on the contrary, no plan at all. He went into the Tour with no idea how it would go. Basically resigned to failure because if you don't even know what form you will be on, and feel tired, and you go up against Chris Vroome you are going to get your ass kicked. Which is what happened.

And they didn't even have any kind of team. for either Giro or Tour either. They had to have known there was no chance of winning.

Now, maybe Contador decided that he would rather win a Giro than likely come 2nd in the Tour. If he did that, fair enough. Much better decision making than Andy Schleck. Though he might as well have gone for another Vuelta in that case.

But now he says next year he will go for the Tour. So does he think he can actually win it? When hes going to be a year weaker and Froome and Quintana a year stronger?

Or is there some sort of a deal in place between the "big 4" that each year one does the Giro and next year Froome will, opening up the chance for Contador.

It depends how Contador really sees himself. If he acknowledges he is not good enough to beat Froome, then he did the right decision, and took a Giro home. If however he thinks he can beat Froome then its silly to waste a chance at doing so when you are still just about in peak years.

Ultimately Contador will be judged by how many Tours he's won. Froome has now (oficially) as many as him. He's now almost certainly going to retire with more. Contador's status as the best gt rider of his generation look to be slipping away.

So he'll retire now knowing the Giro Tour double wasn't possible in 2015. Something he knew anyway. I hope when he retires he won't have this other doubt lingering in his mind. - Could I have won a Tour de France post suspension.
Huh? It's quite obvious his approach was different this year compared to 2011. Weaker in the spring and not in god mode during the Giro. He probably didn't plan for the Giro to be so hard, nor the crashes that happened during the year. It's not some equation where you at the beginning of the year can calculate how good you'll be at the tour.

He was super strong last year and did well in the Vuelta, so the plan was probably to ride in the Tour like in the Vuelta, but he was too fatigued for that and couldn't use enough of the time before the Tour to get in his best shape possible.
 
Apr 17, 2015
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IMO he should easily be able to get into 2014 form for next year. He's done it once and he can do it again. This year he stuffed his form up because of the Giro-Tour in his mind, albeit he did have a few setbacks in the Giro. He really does seem like a year round consistent form rider with a few variations. I have no doubt that he could win the the double if he has 2014 form or 2011 form again, as well as a bit of luck. Unfortunately I don't think he'll try again, unless he rides Giro in 2017 and is extremely good then decides to go for the double.
 
Re:

The Hitch said:
Sorry, but Vuelta doesn't mean much. Its the Tour de France. That's where you prove you are the best. Now maybe Contador would have done that in 2014 but there's no guarantee of that at all. Clearly in 2013 he showed he wasn't stronger and this year he showed he's nowhere near as strong as his fans think. The bottom line is that Froome has comfortably flown away from France with 2 Tour de Frances and was also stronger in a 3rd. Contador hasn't even made a podium since 2010.
Hitch you should be ashamed!
As you wrote "greatest GT racer of this generation' that includes the Giro and Vuelta! Froome has 0 of those.
And Contador has shown he can win a GT even if he is not the best in that particular race. It's a special quality - one Froome so far has not shown. It's not just numbers that make a rider "the greatest".
Contador has not even made the podium since 2010. 2011-2015 includes 2 double attempts, 1 TDF he crashed out of, 1 TDF he could not start because he was banned, so in the end only in 1 TDF he got beaten "fair and square" i.e. on equal ground. Everyone with some cycling knowledge knows this and those who do not are not the kind of people we should be engaging with.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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The Hitch said:
Sorry, but Vuelta doesn't mean much. Its the Tour de France. That's where you prove you are the best. Now maybe Contador would have done that in 2014 but there's no guarantee of that at all. Clearly in 2013 he showed he wasn't stronger and this year he showed he's nowhere near as strong as his fans think. The bottom line is that Froome has comfortably flown away from France with 2 Tour de Frances and was also stronger in a 3rd. Contador hasn't even made a podium since 2010.
You know very well Contador has had bad circumstances in the Tour, bar 2013. Two times, he did it with the Giro is his legs and one time he crashed out of the race.

You just simply analize the results like a robot without looking at bigger picture, when Contador loses, "his title of best GT rider is slipping away" and when he wins, "The great one" is back.

Contador hasn't had the chance yet of having a perfect preperation without any incident at the Tour like Froome . That doesn't mean he isn't better than him. But you'll change your mind as the results go on in 2016, as usual. It's like the market odds.
 
Re:

LaFlorecita said:
Contador 7(9) GTs Froome 2
Froome still has a long long way to go before he is on Contador's level in terms of greatness.
Typical Hitch nonsense ;)
What is nonesence? I didn't say Froome is already better, did I? Contador is still the best of his generation.

But Froome is at the peak of his career, and Contador won't do another gt for another 12 months. By which point, his peak will be on the decline.

And obviously looking at absolutes isn't the point. Contador may have more gts, but who is better remembered Lemond with 3 or Rominger with 4?

Froome can very easily win the next 3 TDFs. Not guaranteed by any chance, but from Contador's pov there seems very little he can do to stop that.

Sort of like Federer can no longer stop how many GS's Djokovic wins, but thankfully for Federer he has a far bigger buffer than Contador has.
 
Re: Re:

Walkman said:
This is something I have thought of. I mean, given last year, he should have had enough faith in his abilities to battle for a Tour victory, but if that indeed was the case, how come he did the Giro? For, as you say, there is no way he actually thought he could win both this year.

Did he feel that he could not match Froome because of his level in the Dauphine? As in, a top for Froome is too much? Or was it, as you say, a "guaranteed" Giro win vs a chance at a Tour win, and he decided to go for the "safe" bet?
It's very simple - he is no longer as motivated. In 2014 he made so many sacrifices to arrive in monster shape and he crashed out. He did not want to risk this again and the double provided the challenge he needed to regain some motivation. Now I assume he will just go all in for 1 more year, telling himself "this is the last time I'll have to do this" and hopefully that + his pride will be enough for him to reach top shape.
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
LaFlorecita said:
Contador 7(9) GTs Froome 2
Froome still has a long long way to go before he is on Contador's level in terms of greatness.
Typical Hitch nonsense ;)
What is nonesence? I didn't say Froome is already better, did I? Contador is still the best of his generation.

But Froome is at the peak of his career, and Contador won't do another gt for another 12 months. By which point, his peak will be on the decline.
Hitch your ability to see into the future is impressive, have you considered what great things you could do with it besides checking when Contador's decline will kick in?
 
Apr 17, 2014
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The Hitch said:
Its all a bit weird to me. When he said hed do Giro Tour I thought at least there must be some sort of a plan in place. Right? Because afterall , Contador did have a good run at a Giro Tour double, at least the process, in 2011. He saw that its difficult to perform in TDF after Giro. He also knows that the top riders are faster than they were in 2011 - a slow year.

So surely this year, he would have known that doing it the same way wouldn't work. You need something different or it won't work. Some new training techniques (wink) motivation, whatever, something different.

But now its clear there was, on the contrary, no plan at all. He went into the Tour with no idea how it would go. Basically resigned to failure because if you don't even know what form you will be on, and feel tired, and you go up against Chris Vroome you are going to get your ass kicked. Which is what happened.

And they didn't even have any kind of team. for either Giro or Tour either. They had to have known there was no chance of winning.

Now, maybe Contador decided that he would rather win a Giro than likely come 2nd in the Tour. If he did that, fair enough. Much better decision making than Andy Schleck. Though he might as well have gone for another Vuelta in that case.

But now he says next year he will go for the Tour. So does he think he can actually win it? When hes going to be a year weaker and Froome and Quintana a year stronger?

Or is there some sort of a deal in place between the "big 4" that each year one does the Giro and next year Froome will, opening up the chance for Contador.

It depends how Contador really sees himself. If he acknowledges he is not good enough to beat Froome, then he did the right decision, and took a Giro home. If however he thinks he can beat Froome then its silly to waste a chance at doing so when you are still just about in peak years.

Ultimately Contador will be judged by how many Tours he's won. Froome has now (oficially) as many as him. He's now almost certainly going to retire with more. Contador's status as the best gt rider of his generation look to be slipping away.

So he'll retire now knowing the Giro Tour double wasn't possible in 2015. Something he knew anyway. I hope when he retires he won't have this other doubt lingering in his mind. - Could I have won a Tour de France post suspension.
We don't know what kind of palmares Froome will have when he retires, but to say Froome is even close to contador at this moment in time is crazy, Is Froome currenty better than Contador? Quit possibly. But Froome has 2 GT wins vs Contadors 9 (7). He is one of only 6 riders to win all three GT's, has one 3(2) tours, 3(2) Giro's and 3 vuelta's. Contador is easily the greatest rider currently riding now, and when he retires will probably go down as one of the 5 or 6 best GT riders ever.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
The Hitch said:
LaFlorecita said:
Contador 7(9) GTs Froome 2
Froome still has a long long way to go before he is on Contador's level in terms of greatness.
Typical Hitch nonsense ;)
What is nonesence? I didn't say Froome is already better, did I? Contador is still the best of his generation.

But Froome is at the peak of his career, and Contador won't do another gt for another 12 months. By which point, his peak will be on the decline.
Hitch your ability to see into the future is impressive, have you considered what great things you could do with it besides checking when Contador's decline will kick in?
Unreal :D
 
Aug 4, 2010
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Re:

The Hitch said:
Its all a bit weird to me. When he said hed do Giro Tour I thought at least there must be some sort of a plan in place. Right? Because afterall , Contador did have a good run at a Giro Tour double, at least the process, in 2011. He saw that its difficult to perform in TDF after Giro. He also knows that the top riders are faster than they were in 2011 - a slow year.

So surely this year, he would have known that doing it the same way wouldn't work. You need something different or it won't work. Some new training techniques (wink) motivation, whatever, something different.

But now its clear there was, on the contrary, no plan at all. He went into the Tour with no idea how it would go. Basically resigned to failure because if you don't even know what form you will be on, and feel tired, and you go up against Chris Vroome you are going to get your ass kicked. Which is what happened.

And they didn't even have any kind of team. for either Giro or Tour either. They had to have known there was no chance of winning.

Now, maybe Contador decided that he would rather win a Giro than likely come 2nd in the Tour. If he did that, fair enough. Much better decision making than Andy Schleck. Though he might as well have gone for another Vuelta in that case.

But now he says next year he will go for the Tour. So does he think he can actually win it? When hes going to be a year weaker and Froome and Quintana a year stronger?

Or is there some sort of a deal in place between the "big 4" that each year one does the Giro and next year Froome will, opening up the chance for Contador.

It depends how Contador really sees himself. If he acknowledges he is not good enough to beat Froome, then he did the right decision, and took a Giro home. If however he thinks he can beat Froome then its silly to waste a chance at doing so when you are still just about in peak years.

Ultimately Contador will be judged by how many Tours he's won. Froome has now (oficially) as many as him. He's now almost certainly going to retire with more. Contador's status as the best gt rider of his generation look to be slipping away.

So he'll retire now knowing the Giro Tour double wasn't possible in 2015. Something he knew anyway. I hope when he retires he won't have this other doubt lingering in his mind. - Could I have won a Tour de France post suspension.
1st bolded: Yep, I thought that too, I guess some new training schedule or peaks were made, but it just wasnt enough.I agree on the team, they were poor, disappointing.
2nd bolded: I think he surely does.As fro Quintana and Froome, its not certain they will be stronger, I would say any of them imo.Nibali might be close to the 2014 level tho.
3rd: Thats not true imo, some people might say this but at least people who I know and follow cycling closely in Czech rep. see Contador as a legend, whatever he did.
 
Apr 17, 2014
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Re: Re:

ILovecycling said:
Hugo Koblet said:
I hope we'll see Contador at his best versus Froome and Quintana are their best next year. Go Alberto!
And Nibali, 4 best climbers and GT riders by a brutal mile. :eek:
I can't believe that Nibs won't do the giro three years in a row
 
Jul 29, 2012
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Contador miscalculated astana in the giro, very simple hitch.

He thought he could win it at 90% which he did but it completely destroyed him.
 
Aug 4, 2010
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Miburo said:
Contador miscalculated astana in the giro, very simple hitch.

He thought he could win it at 90% which he did but it completely destroyed him.
Thats true but it changes nothing.He wouldnt have won Tour anyway.Nobody will do that nor Quintana,Froome, Nibali, Nobody.its just too hard with this competition, maybe if someone has monster luck with his opponents crashing out, but even in this case I doubt.
 

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