- Feb 21, 2014
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BlurryVII said:SeriousSam said:Cross winds, Mur de Huy, cobbles, descending etc.
And beating the strongest climber at the Tour de France, as he has been in 2012, 2013, probably would have been in 2014, and in 2015.
Though circumstances explain Contador's every failure at the Tour since 2010, the same does of course not apply to Froome, so the main conclusion to be draw from the Tour is apparently that Froome always fades hard in the third week.
And this year, he wasn't the best climber either, Quintana took more time in the moutains than him. Following the
same criteria as those who say Landa was the best climber at the Giro, here it was Quintana .
In 2012, there was the Vuelta with Rodriguez and Contador so he was not really the best climber, he didn't show anything as well in the Tour, saying he was the best in the entire season because he just looked easy in front of wiggins shows how biased you are.
No Vuelta wasn't enough.And probably in 2014 ? Are you kidding? Vuelta wasn't enough apparently, You think he would've beaten AC at the Tour? Lol.![]()
Excellent post, although I would argue on a small point: the cobbles. After last year, it wasn't unreasonable to predict that Froome would struggle this year. But overall, I agree with your post, and I leave this Giro-TdF strectch with the feeling that Alberto Contador may be in the twilight of his career. Even at the Giro, he didn't look that great IMO.SeriousSam said:The evidence that Froome was severely underestimated, especially by Contador fans, is all over this forum. It was a sight to behold how so many feverishly insisted Froome can't do something, only for Froome to do that very thing better than any of the so called Big 4 the day after. Cross winds, Mur de Huy, cobbles, descending etc. And beating the strongest climber at the Tour de France, as he has been in 2012, 2013, probably would have been in 2014, and in 2015.
Though circumstances explain Contador's every failure at the Tour since 2010, the same does of course not apply to Froome, so the main conclusion to be draw from the Tour is apparently that Froome always fades hard in the third week.
1) Landa took way more time in the mountains on Contador than Quintana did on Froome. IIRC Quintana took what -30 seconds-1 minute? Landa took something lik 2.20.
2) Landa beat Contador in stage wins 2-0 (should have been 3-0 but Astana). Quintana beat froome, oh wait he didn't beat froome he actually lost. 0-1.
3) Landa was 2nd in KOM (should have been 1st but Astana) vs Contador 10th. Froome won KOM vs Quintana 2nd/3rd.
He absolutely smashed Nibali as well. And Valverde. While pulling for Wiggins and also excelling in tts. Extremely strong time on Peyresoudes too.
No Vuelta wasn't enough.![]()
Or do you think Chris Horner would have beaten Nibali at the Tour? Or could Cobo beat Froome? Or Mosquera beat Nibali etc.
Vuelta isn't the Tour. the Tour is the Tour. That is where the best gt rider and best climber is decided.
BlurryVII said:SeriousSam said:Cross winds, Mur de Huy, cobbles, descending etc.
And beating the strongest climber at the Tour de France, as he has been in 2012, 2013, probably would have been in 2014, and in 2015.
Though circumstances explain Contador's every failure at the Tour since 2010, the same does of course not apply to Froome, so the main conclusion to be draw from the Tour is apparently that Froome always fades hard in the third week.
I personally never thought he wouldn't do well on those terrains.
In 2012, there was the Vuelta with Rodriguez and Contador so he was not really the best climber, he didn't show anything as well in the Tour, saying he was the best in the entire season because he just looked easy in front of wiggins shows how biased you are.
And probably in 2014 ? Are you kidding? Vuelta wasn't enough apparently, You think he would've beaten AC at the Tour? Lol.![]()
And this year, he wasn't the best climber either, Quintana took more time in the moutains than him. Following the
same criteria as those who say Landa was the best climber at the Giro, here it was Quintana .
warmfuzzies said:BlurryVII said:SeriousSam said:Cross winds, Mur de Huy, cobbles, descending etc.
And beating the strongest climber at the Tour de France, as he has been in 2012, 2013, probably would have been in 2014, and in 2015.
Though circumstances explain Contador's every failure at the Tour since 2010, the same does of course not apply to Froome, so the main conclusion to be draw from the Tour is apparently that Froome always fades hard in the third week.
I personally never thought he wouldn't do well on those terrains.
In 2012, there was the Vuelta with Rodriguez and Contador so he was not really the best climber, he didn't show anything as well in the Tour, saying he was the best in the entire season because he just looked easy in front of wiggins shows how biased you are.
And probably in 2014 ? Are you kidding? Vuelta wasn't enough apparently, You think he would've beaten AC at the Tour? Lol.![]()
And this year, he wasn't the best climber either, Quintana took more time in the moutains than him. Following the
same criteria as those who say Landa was the best climber at the Giro, here it was Quintana .
I thought the best TdF climber won the KoM, a point reinforced if the KoM winner also wins the Tour. Didnt Froome win both the MJ and KoM this year? If yes, how can you say he wasn't the best climber?!?
warmfuzzies said:I thought the best TdF climber won the KoM, a point reinforced if the KoM winner also wins the Tour. Didnt Froome win both the MJ and KoM this year? If yes, how can you say he wasn't the best climber?!?
warmfuzzies said:I love this trope. Because one only watches the greatest GT, one knows nothing about cycling.
Compared to Quintana, generally he is on the same level as the other competitors.SeriousSam said:The evidence that Froome was severely underestimated, especially by Contador fans, is all over this forum. It was a sight to behold how so many feverishly insisted Froome can't do something, only for Froome to do that very thing better than any of the so called Big 4 the day after. Cross winds, Mur de Huy, cobbles, descending etc. And beating the strongest climber at the Tour de France, as he has been in 2012, 2013, probably would have been in 2014, and in 2015.
Though circumstances explain Contador's every failure at the Tour since 2010, the same does of course not apply to Froome, so the main conclusion to be draw from the Tour is apparently that Froome always fades hard in the third week.
BlurryVII said:warmfuzzies said:I love this trope. Because one only watches the greatest GT, one knows nothing about cycling.
Unfortunately the winner of the greatest GT aka the Tour, couldn't win the "lesser" Vuelta in 3 participations.
Wait... isn't he supposed to win it easily, if he can win the Tour?
![]()
Thanks for posting, I hadn't seen that one either.BlurryVII said:
Tonton said:Excellent post, although I would argue on a small point: the cobbles. After last year, it wasn't unreasonable to predict that Froome would struggle this year. But overall, I agree with your post, and I leave this Giro-TdF strectch with the feeling that Alberto Contador may be in the twilight of his career. Even at the Giro, he didn't look that great IMO.SeriousSam said:The evidence that Froome was severely underestimated, especially by Contador fans, is all over this forum. It was a sight to behold how so many feverishly insisted Froome can't do something, only for Froome to do that very thing better than any of the so called Big 4 the day after. Cross winds, Mur de Huy, cobbles, descending etc. And beating the strongest climber at the Tour de France, as he has been in 2012, 2013, probably would have been in 2014, and in 2015.
Though circumstances explain Contador's every failure at the Tour since 2010, the same does of course not apply to Froome, so the main conclusion to be draw from the Tour is apparently that Froome always fades hard in the third week.
What are you talking about? Froome was able to peak for 18 days this Tour. Quintana was able to peak for two days. If anything, this Tour shows that Froome's recovery is very good.BlurryVII said:The Hitch said:ILovecycling said:Thats true but it changes nothing.He wouldnt have won Tour anyway.Nobody will do that nor Quintana,Froome, Nibali, Nobody.its just too hard with this competition, maybe if someone has monster luck with his opponents crashing out, but even in this case I doubt.Miburo said:Contador miscalculated astana in the giro, very simple hitch.
He thought he could win it at 90% which he did but it completely destroyed him.
lol what? Froome 2013 could do the Giro TOur double with his finger in his ear. He was almost as fatigued going into the TDF as he would be with a Giro behind his belt. Ridiculous 6 month peak and still destroyed the Tour de France. How many minutes weaker would he have been if he had done the Giro instead of Oman-Tirreno-Romandie-Dauphine.
2, 3 maybe. 5,6, no way.
Ridiculous 6 months peak? Froome was more than average in Oman and Tirreno 13', he won the prati di tivo MTF by only a couple seconds and lost on Green Mountain to Purito, Contador was absolute crap, if he was in 14' form, he would've destroyed him. I repeat Froome was more than average in those early races.
He started peaking from Romandie. And how can you compare doing a streak of 1 week races supposedly at the top which wasn't even the case vs riding 2 GTs in a row? It's not even remotely the same.
First, Froome would've had to beat a rather stong Nibali at the Giro under extreme conditions, there was snow, and rain every moutain stage. With his low body fat, he wouldn't even be a threat.
And Froome's recovery is terrible, he can't even hold his peak in ONE GT, he always fades in the 3rd week or when he crashes once he completely disappears. But doing Giro - Tour? Lol.
Froome is least likely to be able to do a double.
interesting thing is that before the tour said you were convinced contador would win the race. alberto finished 5th with a 8 minute margin but this changed nothing in your estimation. that's still pretty much like 'froome won the tour as contador was nowhere from his best'BlurryVII said:The Hitch said:Well i'll defer to you on expertise of the overrated zone, seeing as how you basically own it re Contador.
Fair enough? Doesn't change that you're overrating Froome as hell. Talking about a double when he can't even hold his peak in a single GT, is laughable.
In 2012, even after taking it easy at the Tour, he completely collapsed at the Vuelta. Much worse than Contador's double attempts.
I think you're overhyping the current trend, that's it he won his 2nd GT you think he can do the triple and best GT rider since Merckx. Calm down.
BlurryVII said:Unfortunately, the Armstrong era is over.
Generally the best GT rider is not meant to be the best climber. The best GT rider is the most consistent in all environments. The fact that lately GT routes tend to make people believe that Best GT Rider == Best Climber doesn't make it true. It's just a relatively recent degeneration.BlurryVII said:The best GT rider and climber is no more the Tour winner.
He must feel devastated.BlurryVII said:The great Froome who won the Tour twice now, hasn't won the Vuelta in 3 participations.
LaFlorecita said:What an extraordinary load of rubbish on the last few pages.
Thanks for posting, I hadn't seen that one either.BlurryVII said:
Singer01 said:once he was a support rider and would have won otherwise, once he was coming off a tour where he did a shed load of work, once he was coming off an injury.
one could just as easily say the 'supposed greatest grand tour racer of his generation' couldn't win the tour in 5 years, when everyone knows there was a good reason for it.
dacooley said:interesting thing is that before the tour said you were convinced contador would win the race. alberto finished 5th with a 8 minute margin but this changed nothing in your estimation. that's still pretty much like 'froome won the tour as contador was nowhere from his best'
Eshnar said:He must feel devastated.BlurryVII said:The great Froome who won the Tour twice now, hasn't won the Vuelta in 3 participations.
BlurryVII said:1) Landa took way more time in the mountains on Contador than Quintana did on Froome. IIRC Quintana took what -30 seconds-1 minute? Landa took something lik 2.20.
2) Landa beat Contador in stage wins 2-0 (should have been 3-0 but Astana). Quintana beat froome, oh wait he didn't beat froome he actually lost. 0-1.
3) Landa was 2nd in KOM (should have been 1st but Astana) vs Contador 10th. Froome won KOM vs Quintana 2nd/3rd.
Those are irrelevant arguments.
Snip
It's just about the time taken, where Quintana has the advantage.
And Froome still showed nothing, he was just pulling and looking easy. Contador and rodriguez in the Vuelta were much, much better uphill than Wiggins in that Tour . In numbers as well.
Froome got annihilated. There's absolutely no way Froome was the best climber in 2012, it's wishful thinking.
No Vuelta wasn't enough.![]()
Or do you think Chris Horner would have beaten Nibali at the Tour? Or could Cobo beat Froome? Or Mosquera beat Nibali etc.
Vuelta isn't the Tour. the Tour is the Tour. That is where the best gt rider and best climber is decided.
Unfortunately, the Armstrong era is over. The best GT rider and climber is no more the Tour winner.
Contador from the Giro 11' was much better climber than Evans, Contador / Rodriguez Vuelta 12' miles better than Wiggins, Contador was the best climber of 2014 and not Nibali, the Tour winner.
To take your example, I think Horner Vuelta 13' definitely could've possibly been a better climber than Nibali Tour 14'.
At the end of the day, Nibali gave his best and lost that Vuelta to Horner by being worse, same for Froome in 2011 - 2012 and 2014.
The great Froome who won the Tour twice now, hasn't won the Vuelta in 3 participations. Sorry, but being in yellow in Paris doesn't mean being the best anymore.
The Hitch said:You also arbitrarily decide who was the best rider each year and surprise surprise contador comes off as the best lol.
Contador and froome have faced eachother on equal terms once and froome won by 1st round k.o. "lack of motivation" really isn't a great excuse for losing by as much as contador did. And contador allegedly believed all along he was going to win.
Also worth noting that contador hasn't had a dominant gt like 2013 tdf