Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Miburo]

Without full *** astana giro was a fieldtrip, did you think Landa was gonna be a god? No one knew that was gonna happen. Contador knew he would destroy aru, porte and uran. That's cycling, you can't calculate a GT and expect to get away with it untouched if you do the double.

 

[fungusbear]

Re: Re:

Contador miscalculated astana in the giro, very simple hitch.

He thought he could win it at 90% which he did but it completely destroyed him.

Thats true but it changes nothing.He wouldnt have won Tour anyway.Nobody will do that nor Quintana,Froome, Nibali, Nobody.its just too hard with this competition, maybe if someone has monster luck with his opponents crashing out, but even in this case I doubt.

+1. With these 4 incredible riders unless all four did the giro I can't see someone doing the double.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Contador miscalculated astana in the giro, very simple hitch.

He thought he could win it at 90% which he did but it completely destroyed him.

Thats true but it changes nothing.He wouldnt have won Tour anyway.Nobody will do that nor Quintana,Froome, Nibali, Nobody.its just too hard with this competition, maybe if someone has monster luck with his opponents crashing out, but even in this case I doubt.

He would be way better though, astana clearly pushed Contador to the limit. Just think of a giro without a full *** astana/landa, he wins it in the ITT and he can relax then.

I'm not using it as an excuse btw, i'm just explaining contador's mindset pregiro, he didn't expect them to be so great.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Contador miscalculated astana in the giro, very simple hitch.

He thought he could win it at 90% which he did but it completely destroyed him.

Thats true but it changes nothing.He wouldnt have won Tour anyway.Nobody will do that nor Quintana,Froome, Nibali, Nobody.its just too hard with this competition, maybe if someone has monster luck with his opponents crashing out, but even in this case I doubt.

He would be way better though, astana clearly pushed Contador to the limit. Just think of a giro without a full *** astana/landa, he wins it in the ITT and he can relax then.

I'm not using it as an excuse btw, i'm just explaining contador's mindset pregiro, he didn't expect them to be so great.

Yep, I understand your point, and I agree with that,... he would have probably made podium at Tour.Maybe.

 

[Miburo]

Add in Contador's shoulder injury in the giro and his crash in the tour which clearly affected him.

Granted i think a double is nearly impossible unless you can have a real free giro, with no serious competition and a lot of luck in the tour.

And hitch, on what do you base yourself that contador is gonna be worse every year? Look at piti, might be the same with contador, you can't know that.

 

[fungusbear]

Re: Re:

Contador miscalculated astana in the giro, very simple hitch.

He thought he could win it at 90% which he did but it completely destroyed him.

Thats true but it changes nothing.He wouldnt have won Tour anyway.Nobody will do that nor Quintana,Froome, Nibali, Nobody.its just too hard with this competition, maybe if someone has monster luck with his opponents crashing out, but even in this case I doubt.

He would be way better though, astana clearly pushed Contador to the limit. Just think of a giro without a full *** astana/landa, he wins it in the ITT and he can relax then.

I'm not using it as an excuse btw, i'm just explaining contador's mindset pregiro, he didn't expect them to be so great.

Yep, I understand your point, and I agree with that,... he would have probably made podium at Tour.Maybe.

I think he would at least had more of an impact this tour. His attacks in this tour lacked the spark that we have become accustomed to.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Contador miscalculated astana in the giro, very simple hitch.

He thought he could win it at 90% which he did but it completely destroyed him.

Thats true but it changes nothing.He wouldnt have won Tour anyway.Nobody will do that nor Quintana,Froome, Nibali, Nobody.its just too hard with this competition, maybe if someone has monster luck with his opponents crashing out, but even in this case I doubt.

lol what? Froome 2013 could do the Giro TOur double with his finger in his ear. He was almost as fatigued going into the TDF as he would be with a Giro behind his belt. Ridiculous 6 month peak and still destroyed the Tour de France. How many minutes weaker would he have been if he had done the Giro instead of Oman-Tirreno-Romandie-Dauphine.
2, 3 maybe. 5,6, no way.

 

[Taxus4a]

Contador could have 27 GT and Froome no victories in GT and you can say Froome is better than Contador.
Lance won 7 Tours, but...

Palmares has his importance, but relatively, if Contador is at his best of his life and Froome is at his best and Froome put 5 minutes in Contador with similar luck and team for me is clear.

Froome started late in cycling and now we have the best climber I have ever seen race, so maybe he is not going to win a lot of Tours, but he has already 2, and he was the stronger in another Tour and Vuelta (Contador won a Tour and a Vuelta with a team mate stronger, Levi)

Pereiro has a Tour, Landis as well, if you try to tell mw that froome was before to win this Tour at the same level of that riders you are having me on...

If Contador fans want to be happy with all the races ´Contador has won and the fact he beated Froome in la Vuelta after a bad injury and for that he is one of the best in History and he is better than Froome, and things like that, ok, live in your happy world... but reality shows another thing, although the palmares contador got is important and we must to take into consideration, he is the reference in Tour the last 9 years, not always the best, but the reference to measure.

But the fact he has never win le Tour after his suspension and he dont win so easy, as he did in 2008, 2009 in several races, is as well something to take into account.

 

[Miburo]

No way Froome could do the giro/tour double in 2013

That was nibali in great shape, he would have given froome a run for his money.

And look how froome was in 2012? In the vuelta he was nothing anymore, and he rode the tour with 2 fingers in his nose...

Is that really you hitch? You're making no sense.

 

[jsem94]

2013 Nibali in the Giro was something spectacular to watch. Froome would have needed mittens and a sweater to shelter his organs because the 3% bodyfat would not have been enough to protect him from the elements that Giro. No way in hell would he have performed as well as he did in the following Tour had he raced the Giro.

 

[warmfuzzies]

Re: Re:

Contador definitely is not the best climber on the planet, on the big stage (tdf) where everyone is at peak form he is not the best. For sure he can be incredible in week long stage races or in the vuelta. But let's face it, landa outclimbed him at the giro, no reason to think Froome, Quintana or nibali can't. I think a victory is only possible thanks to his tactical sense, and I think he can win next year's tour but only by hanging on in the climbs and surprising people in echelons.

You don't know much about cycling, do you? Do you only watch the Tour?

I love this trope. Because one only watches the greatest GT, one knows nothing about cycling.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Without full *** astana giro was a fieldtrip, did you think Landa was gonna be a god? No one knew that was gonna happen. Contador knew he would destroy aru, porte and uran. That's cycling, you can't calculate a GT and expect to get away with it untouched if you do the double.

I think there's a major flaw in your argument. People on here keep thinking they know how good any cyclist is, what their limit is, how good they can be. If that was the case Froome would be bottle carrying for Mcdonalds Amore Vita.

You can't ever know how good someone will be. Riders change abilities year to year, race to race.

You say Contador knew he would beat Aru and Porte and Uran? How. Richie Porte 2 years ago flew away from Contador on at least 2 mountains. Fabio Aru last year was only slightly worse than Quintana and a lot of people expected him to take a further step up this year.

From Contador's p.o.v all 3 could have been stronger this year. Also all 3 could have been weaker. You can't know.

So while it may have been a surprise that Landa was good, on the other hand Porte and Aru and Uran all ended up quite weak.

I don't think Contador's giro was that hard. The course was very very hard, but he won it with a few minutes to spare. But you definately can't go into a gt expecting it to be a cake walk.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Contador miscalculated astana in the giro, very simple hitch.

He thought he could win it at 90% which he did but it completely destroyed him.

Thats true but it changes nothing.He wouldnt have won Tour anyway.Nobody will do that nor Quintana,Froome, Nibali, Nobody.its just too hard with this competition, maybe if someone has monster luck with his opponents crashing out, but even in this case I doubt.

lol what? Froome 2013 could do the Giro TOur double with his finger in his ear. He was almost as fatigued going into the TDF as he would be with a Giro behind his belt. Ridiculous 6 month peak and still destroyed the Tour de France. How many minutes weaker would he have been if he had done the Giro instead of Oman-Tirreno-Romandie-Dauphine.
2, 3 maybe. 5,6, no way.

Ridiculous 6 months peak? Froome was more than average in Oman and Tirreno 13', he won the prati di tivo MTF by only a couple seconds and lost on Green Mountain to Purito, Contador was absolute crap, if he was in 14' form, he would've destroyed him. I repeat Froome was more than average in those early races.

He started peaking from Romandie. And how can you compare doing a streak of 1 week races supposedly at the top which wasn't even the case vs riding 2 GTs in a row? It's not even remotely the same.

First, Froome would've had to beat a rather stong Nibali at the Giro under extreme conditions, there was snow, and rain every moutain stage. With his low body fat, he wouldn't even be a threat.
And Froome's recovery is terrible, he can't even hold his peak in ONE GT, he always fades in the 3rd week or when he crashes once he completely disappears. But doing Giro - Tour? Lol.

Froome is least likely to be able to do a double.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Without full *** astana giro was a fieldtrip, did you think Landa was gonna be a god? No one knew that was gonna happen. Contador knew he would destroy aru, porte and uran. That's cycling, you can't calculate a GT and expect to get away with it untouched if you do the double.

I think there's a major flaw in your argument. People on here keep thinking they know how good any cyclist is, what their limit is, how good they can be. If that was the case Froome would be bottle carrying for Mcdonalds Amore Vita.

You can't ever know how good someone will be. Riders change abilities year to year, race to race.

You say Contador knew he would beat Aru and Porte and Uran? How. Richie Porte 2 years ago flew away from Contador on at least 2 mountains. Fabio Aru last year was only slightly worse than Quintana and a lot of people expected him to take a further step up this year.

From Contador's p.o.v all 3 could have been stronger this year. Also all 3 could have been weaker. You can't know.

So while it may have been a surprise that Landa was good, on the other hand Porte and Aru and Uran all ended up quite weak.

I don't think Contador's giro was that hard. The course was very very hard, but he won it with a few minutes to spare. But you definately can't go into a gt expecting it to be a cake walk.

You're right but Contador expected it though as i think he didn't do the giro to run away from Froome. He thought it was gonna be 'easy' and made it possible for him to also win the tour.

And Porte always failed in GT's and the year before he was rather poor (contador could not predict porte's 2015 start).

You know uran is a joke hitch lol And Aru? Well i didn't expect much from him, maybe contador did, i doubt it.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

No way Froome could do the giro/tour double in 2013

That was nibali in great shape, he would have given froome a run for his money.

And look how froome was in 2012? In the vuelta he was nothing anymore, and he rode the tour with 2 fingers in his nose...

Is that really you hitch? You're making no sense.

Nibali in great shape was slower than Froome on Tivo. Froome 2013 had perfected the season long peak just like wiggins in 2012. I don't think Froome 2012 was the same as Froome 2013 because in 2013 he had the promise of the TDF.

Obviously for the same reason he would never go for the Giro since TDF was only thing on his mind.

I honestly do believe that going into the Tour being on peak form since Feb is very similar to going into the Tour with the Giro in your legs.

I can very easily see Froome do a Giro Tour double in the future.

I don't think he will win the Vuelta though this year though. Too much emotion after tdf.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

No way Froome could do the giro/tour double in 2013

That was nibali in great shape, he would have given froome a run for his money.

And look how froome was in 2012? In the vuelta he was nothing anymore, and he rode the tour with 2 fingers in his nose...

Is that really you hitch? You're making no sense.

Nibali in great shape was slower than Froome on Tivo. Froome 2013 had perfected the season long peak just like wiggins in 2012. I don't think Froome 2012 was the same as Froome 2013 because in 2013 he had the promise of the TDF.

Obviously for the same reason he would never go for the Giro since TDF was only thing on his mind.

I honestly do believe that going into the Tour being on peak form since Feb is very similar to going into the Tour with the Giro in your legs.

I can very easily see Froome do a Giro Tour double in the future.

I don't think he will win the Vuelta though this year though. Too much emotion after tdf.

You're entering the overrating zone . Kinda deluded.

 

[Miburo]

I disagree with that hitch I think you underestimate a double, as i did too

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Add in Contador's shoulder injury in the giro and his crash in the tour which clearly affected him.

Granted i think a double is nearly impossible unless you can have a real free giro, with no serious competition and a lot of luck in the tour.

And hitch, on what do you base yourself that contador is gonna be worse every year? Look at piti, might be the same with contador, you can't know that.

You are right maybe he won't get weaker at 33. Generally riders do though. Perhaps like Murito and Piti he won't.

It just seems so dejavu to me. Its going to be the 6th year in a row Contador goes into the year as a supposed TDF favourite, and in 5 he hasn't even challenged.

Of course there are some very legitimate excuses for some of those years. But the result is always the same. No TDF, not even close. The record books don't show why, just the result. Are we going to be having this same discussion AGAIN next year. about how in 2017 Contador really really will win the TDF just like he was going to in 2011 and 2012 and 2013 and 2014 and 2015?

He's definately lost the benefit of the doubt though. Froome is the undisputed favourite. Quintana very likely to claim his beloved 2nd place.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

No way Froome could do the giro/tour double in 2013

That was nibali in great shape, he would have given froome a run for his money.

And look how froome was in 2012? In the vuelta he was nothing anymore, and he rode the tour with 2 fingers in his nose...

Is that really you hitch? You're making no sense.

Nibali in great shape was slower than Froome on Tivo. Froome 2013 had perfected the season long peak just like wiggins in 2012. I don't think Froome 2012 was the same as Froome 2013 because in 2013 he had the promise of the TDF.

Obviously for the same reason he would never go for the Giro since TDF was only thing on his mind.

I honestly do believe that going into the Tour being on peak form since Feb is very similar to going into the Tour with the Giro in your legs.

I can very easily see Froome do a Giro Tour double in the future.

I don't think he will win the Vuelta though this year though. Too much emotion after tdf.

You're entering the overrating zone . Kinda deluded.

Well i'll defer to you on expertise of the overrated zone, seeing as how you basically own it re Contador.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

I disagree with that hitch I think you underestimate a double, as i did too

I think you underestimate Froome. As most Contador fans do, because he's the enemy. Guy is like 09 Contador. 09 Contador would also have won the Giro Tour double.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Well i'll defer to you on expertise of the overrated zone, seeing as how you basically own it re Contador.

Fair enough? Doesn't change that you're overrating Froome as hell. Talking about a double when he can't even hold his peak in a single GT, is laughable.

In 2012, even after taking it easy at the Tour, he completely collapsed at the Vuelta. Much worse than Contador's double attempts.

I think you're overhyping the current trend, that's it he won his 2nd GT you think he can do the triple and best GT rider since Merckx. Calm down.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

I disagree with that hitch I think you underestimate a double, as i did too

I think you underestimate Froome. As most Contador fans do, because he's the enemy. Guy is like 09 Contador. 09 Contador would also have won the Giro Tour double.

And you underestimate Contador.

Comparing Froome to 09' Contador just makes it worse.

It's all a question of point of view, to me you're completely deluded.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

I disagree with that hitch I think you underestimate a double, as i did too

I think you underestimate Froome. As most Contador fans do, because he's the enemy. Guy is like 09 Contador. 09 Contador would also have won the Giro Tour double.

Oh no man, i don't underestimate Froome at all. And i see many times people overestimate the enemy in sports, maybe you've seen it different.

I can only dream of Froome vs '09 Contador Waiting for the borgs as jens does

 

[SeriousSam]

The evidence that Froome was severely underestimated, especially by Contador fans, is all over this forum. It was a sight to behold how so many feverishly insisted Froome can't do something, only for Froome to do that very thing better than any of the so called Big 4 the day after. Cross winds, Mur de Huy, cobbles, descending etc. And beating the strongest climber at the Tour de France, as he has been in 2012, 2013, probably would have been in 2014, and in 2015.

Though circumstances explain Contador's every failure at the Tour since 2010, the same does of course not apply to Froome, so the main conclusion to be draw from the Tour is apparently that Froome always fades hard in the third week.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

Cross winds, Mur de Huy, cobbles, descending etc.
And beating the strongest climber at the Tour de France, as he has been in 2012, 2013, probably would have been in 2014, and in 2015.

Though circumstances explain Contador's every failure at the Tour since 2010, the same does of course not apply to Froome, so the main conclusion to be draw from the Tour is apparently that Froome always fades hard in the third week.

I personally never thought he wouldn't do well on those terrains.

In 2012, there was the Vuelta with Rodriguez and Contador so he was not really the best climber, he didn't show anything as well in the Tour, saying he was the best in the entire season because he just looked easy in front of wiggins shows how biased you are.
And probably in 2014 ? Are you kidding? Vuelta wasn't enough apparently, You think he would've beaten AC at the Tour? Lol.

And this year, he wasn't the best climber either, Quintana took more time in the moutains than him. Following the
same criteria as those who say Landa was the best climber at the Giro, here it was Quintana .