Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

so you'll be surprised if froome wins the tour? alright, for le tour, i'd give contador and froome a 35% chance of winning, nairo 25%, all the others - 5%. what's your prediction?

Froome 35% Contador 25% Quintana 15% Aru 15% others 10%

These are the odds. Needless to say they differ quite a bit from your's:

2.10, Froome
3,25, Quintana
4,50, Contador

17,00 Aru
17,00 Porte.

Yeah, but seriously. Putting Aru on the same rate as Porte is taking away all credibility from these odds!

 

[LaFlorecita]

By the way, did any of you odds geeks notice how Berto's odds went from 9 to 4.5 in a few months' time?

 

[HelloDolly]

There is Fabian Cancellera riding since the Mapie days and has won and ridden many monumnets and raced hard

And he will be 35 next week

No one of his fans are talking about top form or not
They know that a champion is a champion
And a champion rides to win and not with excuses

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

I now have them both on ignore so missed it all

It matters not one bit what you do as you are biased obsessives and you are not up for debate only for chearleading each other ,,,,but I guess if I was as obsessive as you lot I would turn a blind eye to anyone who pulled down the rose tinted glasses too

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

There is Fabian Cancellera riding since the Mapie days and has won and ridden many monumnets and raced hard

And he will be 35 next week

No one of his fans are talking about top form or not
They know that a champion is a champion
And a champion rides to win and not with excuses

What are you trying to say? I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion about Contador's possible decline.

It matters not one bit what you do as you are biased obsessives and you are not up for debate only for chearleading each other ,,,,but I guess if I was as obsessive as you lot I would turn a blind eye to anyone who pulled down the rose tinted glasses too

You are just as biased just the other way around.

 

[HelloDolly]

I am not biased ...I happen to think Contador is one of the best rider of his generation (or any)

I just happen to think Froome is also as good ...

See I see both ...you only see one

 

[Jspear]

Re:

2 points first if by some miracle they both show up at a Grand tour in top form none of us will admit it after our guy is beaten.
second even within a GT form comes and goes that's why I am so against shortening the length of a GT

If Froome had beaten AC in the 2014 Tour, I would have admitted AC lost while being in the best of form (assuming no crashes). I have no problem admitting that if it happens....It just hasn't happened yet.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I am not biased ...I happen to think Contador is one of the best rider of his generation (or any)

I just happen to think Froome is also as good ...

See I see both ...you only see one

2 things:
I would appreciate if you
1 stopped making assumptions about my opinions.
2 stopped portraying your personal opinion as the epitome of objectivity.
That is all

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

If Froome had beaten AC in the 2014 Tour, I would have admitted AC lost while being in the best of form (assuming no crashes). I have no problem admitting that if it happens....It just hasn't happened yet.

Exactly. But watch out, the Sky fans will accuse you of being biased and obsessed.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

There is Fabian Cancellera riding since the Mapie days and has won and ridden many monumnets and raced hard

And he will be 35 next week

No one of his fans are talking about top form or not
They know that a champion is a champion
And a champion rides to win and not with excuses

What are you babbling about? Cancellara doesn't have haters coming in every day to just post that this or that is a better rider than him, or that he's declining or he isn't the strongest when in top form etc. Provoking basically, then when you bring in the facts, they accuse you of being biased, obsessive and other BS. LOL

 

[SevenTimeTdfChamp]

Re:

There is Fabian Cancellera riding since the Mapie days and has won and ridden many monumnets and raced hard

And he will be 35 next week

No one of his fans are talking about top form or not
They know that a champion is a champion
And a champion rides to win and not with excuses

Huge difference ... Cancellara is primarily a one day racer were contador is a stage racer. So you cant compare them at all. A one day racer, especially one that rides Paris Roubaix, peaks later in life than a stage racer.

Also .. dont blame Contador for the excues his fans makes

 

[cantpedal]

Re: Re:

If Froome had beaten AC in the 2014 Tour, I would have admitted AC lost while being in the best of form (assuming no crashes). I have no problem admitting that if it happens....It just hasn't happened yet.

Exactly. But watch out, the Sky fans will accuse you of being biased and obsessed.

I'm pretty sure we are all biased and obsessed. that's why we're here

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

If Froome had beaten AC in the 2014 Tour, I would have admitted AC lost while being in the best of form (assuming no crashes). I have no problem admitting that if it happens....It just hasn't happened yet.

Exactly. But watch out, the Sky fans will accuse you of being biased and obsessed.

I'm pretty sure we are all biased and obsessed. that's why we're here

This is true

 

[cantpedal]

Re:

On-topic:
Of course age is of importance, and of course riders will usually decline between 31 and 33. Peak age is in the late twenties, and while scientific methods in the current peloton may be able to extend the age in which riders are able to perform at a decent to high level, it won't all of a sudden chance the physiological peak age of the body.
PCS has a very useful chart of PCS points per age
http://www.procyclingstats.com/statistics.php
It shows that at 26-27 riders score most points.
I rarely use PCS but I think this is a great chart as it has no outliers whatsoever. A very gradual rise and decline.
So if we take 26-28 as the average peak age, after that, this average rider will decline, and the only logical conclusion is that this rider will decline between 31 and 33 too. So there are a couple examples (Evans, Valverde, maybe Rodriguez) of riders not showing any sort of decline until their mid-thirties, but that does not mean every rider will follow a similar trajectory. As many have pointed out, Contador has been at the top since 2007, and even Hinault and Merckx only had a GT-winning range of 8-9 years. It would be absolutely unsurprising if he does not perform at his best level and gets beaten by others, if his decline is especially quick he could even get beaten by 2nd and 3rd tier climbers and GC riders. At the same time, it's also possible he manages to squeeze out one more year at a high level. Only time will tell.

This is what I have been trying to say exactly. Just couldn't make the point so clearly.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

There is Fabian Cancellera riding since the Mapie days and has won and ridden many monumnets and raced hard

And he will be 35 next week

No one of his fans are talking about top form or not
They know that a champion is a champion
And a champion rides to win and not with excuses

Huge difference ... Cancellara is primarily a one day racer were contador is a stage racer. So you cant compare them at all. A one day racer, especially one that rides Paris Roubaix, peaks later in life than a stage racer.

Also .. dont blame Contador for the excues his fans makes

I don't. I really admire and respect him as a rider

And I am not comparing riders ..I alluding to the excuses fans make

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I don't. I really admire and respect him as a rider

And I am not comparing riders ..I alluding to the excuses fans make

Saying he may not be able to reach his best level because he's getting old is not an excuse, it's a logical conclusion.
Also, by saying real champions don't need excuses, you are effectively saying Contador is not a real champion which frankly does not show much respect and admiration.
Still don't understand why you posted about Cancellara in this thread. Seems to me you could have made your point (whatever that was) without comparing him to Contador.

 

[LaFlorecita]

By the way, Cancellara does not have as many "die-hard" fans on here as Contador, but I believe you'll find the few that post on this forum are just as defensive as the Contador fans.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Tomorrow, Alberto will start at 14:31 CET

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

One last time for old times sake and I will keep it short

Saying he may not be able to reach his best level because he's getting old is not an excuse, it's a logical conclusion.

...Nobody knows that his age is a major factor yet ( as it is not with many other top riders like Valverde, Cancelera, Purito, etc) and you roll it out as a defense not a conclusion..as I said earlier no one can win this debate as dogma is pushed as fact

saying real champions don't need excuses, you are effectively saying Contador is not a real champion

I know nothing bout Contador's excuses ...its the fans on here's excuses

Still don't understand why you posted about Cancellara in this thread. Seems to me you could have made your point (whatever that was) without comparing him to Contador.

Since you don't know what my point is (you say) how can you dictate what means i use to elucidate it ? I believe there is still free speech so I can use whatever example I wish

That is all

 

[LaFlorecita]

So when Contador does not perform at his best, we cannot ever try to find the reason behind it and/or reach logical conclusions because we would be searching for excuses and proper fans of proper riders don't look for excuses. That just makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

There is Fabian Cancellera riding since the Mapie days and has won and ridden many monumnets and raced hard

And he will be 35 next week

No one of his fans are talking about top form or not
They know that a champion is a champion
And a champion rides to win and not with excuses

What are you babbling about? Cancellara doesn't have haters coming in every day to just post that this or that is a better rider than him, or that he's declining or he isn't the strongest when in top form etc. Provoking basically, then when you bring in the facts, they accuse you of being biased, obsessive and other BS. LOL

It goes both way. What Contador-fans might say is hating etc. might not be the intention while on the other hand, all that stuff also goes along in the Froome-thread. Its pretty mutual from an objective POV

 

[jens_attacks]

top 5 tomorrow?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

top 5 tomorrow?

Top 20 IMO flat and not technical and many specialists at the start

 

[rhubroma]

It's about style and what people find invigorating, or not.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Yeah, after all he only managed to win one GT last season.

Comments like this is why some people think Contador fans aren't normal and objective.

Yes he won a GT against Aru and Landa, and if it wasn't for Astanas tactics about prioritizing Aru all the time Landa could very well have won that Giro. Contador never reached his best level last year, which is worrying whether we like or not. There could be the obvious answer since he tried to go for both the Giro and the Tour.

But since Vuelta 2014 Contador haven't reached his top level, and a lot of riders decline from 31 of age to 33.

Lets have a look at Contador post-ban:
2013: sucked all year
2014: Reached toplevel
2015: Didn't suck, but not very good either. Still managed to win a GT again second tier opponents.
2016: 33 years old... that's the big question. Can he do it at this age?

I hope he can reach his 2014 level again, but I think it's a fair assesment that he's the one with questionmarks over his head rather than Froome.

...and 2014 is such a long time ago?