Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Iker_Baqueiro]

Haha good one

Let's not forget AC emptied himself with several attacks trying to go alone get a Jersey that Rasmussen earned in a breakaway.

He was dropped by Leipheimer as well, which shows that all those attacks clearly affected him. He was young as well.

Rasmussen suceeded his longe range attack on his own. Nearly taking all the pulls on his own after getting clear. Without loosing much time on the chasing and fighting favorites group behind him up to Tignes.

Contador failed to round off his longe range attack. Despite having a teammate with him and was caught by the favorites group again.

Rasmussen was able to crack an empty Contador after a nearly week long man against man battle on the slopes of the Aubisque.

Contador failed to crack the struggling Rasmussen, who hang on for his life and managed to lose no significant time.

Are you really gonna compare Tignes' stage including a series of HC and 1 category climbs perfect for a long range attack with the Galibier stage where Contador attacked which had a long flat valley route after it?

Also the favorites were looking at each other on Tignes and Contador punctured at a moment where he could've attacked.

After that it was Contador who made all the attacks, not Rassmussen who was just laying on the gap he got in Tignes stage where nobody cared to chase him.

https://youtu.be/QMaPvrIxvycRasmussen opened the fire himself a few times, coped with all of Contador's attacks and finally went away in the Pyrenees.

And it's new to me that having the tactical strengh and the sheer power to attack at the right time, on the right stage while lying the foundation to a back then possible Tour win counts in disfavor nowadays. It was all planned for a year or so after all.

Rasmussen eventually was the strongest. And it's the only time someone has beaten a peak shape Contador in fact. That tells enough about chickens power there and Contador's quality during his ongoing career.

+1000 on the youtube link. I miss that. When men were men and they attacked each other.

 

[Miburo]

LMAO, a lot of riders decline from 31 to 33???????????????????

Oh god what a fool.

What about evans, purito, armstrong, piti, leipheimer???? All GT riders that got better under your so called theory LOL

And there are prob many i'm missing out, nice try chump.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

Taxusa makes some valid points

Oops, I stopped reading here.

Me too

I now have them both on ignore so missed it all

Me too. More than two. Since I really don't enjoy diminishing others pleasure in whom they support, I have no compunction in ignoring those that are diminishing mine. Sadly, I suspect that knowing that they are ruining it for me (not personally, but as a Contador fan) may actually be regarded as a victory of sorts for some.

i wish someone would set up a Froome vs Contador, who is better thread, so that this place could be for discussions primarily about Contador, and not end up in the same round in circles debate, endlessly going over old ground, with opinions stated as though they were fact and a pretty low level of generosity of spirit all round.

 

[rm7]

Re:

LMAO, a lot of riders decline from 31 to 33???????????????????

Oh god what a fool.

What about evans, purito, armstrong, piti, leipheimer???? All GT riders that got better under your so called theory LOL

And there are prob many i'm missing out, nice try chump.

Armstrong was far superior in both TT and the mountains in his first 4 tour wins. From 2003-2005 riders like Ullrich(2003), Basso (2004-2005) could match him in the mountains. No doubt that he was still the best, but he wasn't as good as earlier.

And you choose examples like Evans, Purito, Piti and Leipheimer. Riders that have never reached the level of Contador.

I'm a big Contador fan, but this thread have become a joke. When somebody even question if Contador is as good as 2007-2011 you get hit by a shitstorm.

Straight out - do you think that Contador 2007-2011 or 2012-2016 is the better version? Dont bullsh*t me, just give a straight answer.

Evans, Purito, Piti and Leipheimer were never the best. Let's say on a scale from 1-10, at their best they were;
Evans; 9
Purito; 8
Piti; 7
Leipheimer;7

Armstrong and Contador were both 10's. And Armstrong dropped to maybe 9, and Contador have IN MY OPINION dropped to a level around 9-9,5 now. He's not that superman that rode away from everybody at will anymore. Back in the days you knew he was gonna win everytime. Now everybody are nervous before each moutain stage.

My list right now at their best; (level 1-10)
Froome 9,5
Contador 9-9,5
Quintana 8,5
Aru 8

Contador have to show me that he can beat the other guys in a direct battle consistently. And then show me that he can actually beat Froome at his best. His 2014 level would maybe have done it, we'll never know. In the Vuelta they were not at their best, but it was impressive that Contador won, when he was the one that should have been suffering most from their injuries.

 

[dacooley]

in all fairness needless to say there's a certain category of posters who base their hearty adoration to bertie on many factors very toxic dislike to sky included, so their 'objectivity' is under huge doubt, to put it mildly. probably, hollydolly tends to refer to them..

 

[LaFlorecita]

What the hell Miburo. The average peak age of a rider is between 26 and (being generous) 29. Of course we can then conclude that the average rider will decline between 31 and 33. It is absolutely, 100%, logical. Very few riders will be at a physical plateau (i.e. peak) between 31 and 33.
You should really mind the way you phrase things. With that post, you look like a fool and a douche. Don't be a fool and a douche.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Regarding rm07 post:
Contador 2007-2011 was definitely better when it comes to consistency. His 2009 shape was probably his best ever, but it's hard to compare because 2012 was like the start of a new era of competitors. Andy, Evans, Lance, Scarponi, Leipheimer, those were his rivals in the first half of his winning years. From 2012 on, it's Sky, Quintana, and since a year or two Aru. We can't say with 100% certainty which version of Contador was better. At the very least he is less consistent now on a year-to-year basis. But if we take, for example, his 2014 shape, was he better or worse than 2011? We can't tell. We don't know how Andy, Scarponi and 2011 Cadel match up with Froome, Valverde and Quintana. We can guess, but we'll never know.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

in all fairness needless to say there's a certain category of posters who base their hearty adoration to bertie on many factors very toxic dislike to sky included, so their 'objectivity' is under huge doubt, to put it mildly. probably, hollydolly tends to refer to them..

You have it the wrong way around, very toxic dislike of Sky is based on many factors, adoration of Bertie included.
HelloDolly is one of the last people who could school me about objectivity considering their irrational love for everything Sky and irrational hatred for (all fans of) Contador. They say they also "admire and respect" Contador but their posts in this thread don't show anything like that. Honestly I would not at all be surprised if this poster also had an account on the Team Sky fanforum (BikeRadar),

I sometimes stalk those forums and it's funny how they're so convinced they're 100% objective while slagging off Sky haters and rivals there is one particular poster who, time and time again, is surprised Contador has a wife at all because he "always thought he was batting it for the other side" oh and whenever Contador wins, the only thing that is mentioned is his gunshot victory salute and unanimous agreement is reached that he looks like and probably is a twa/t
Sorry, rant over.

 

[Scarponi]

+1000 on the youtube link. I miss that. When men were men and they attacked each other.[/quote]

LOL even cadel was sprinting back then

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

LMAO, a lot of riders decline from 31 to 33???????????????????

Oh god what a fool.

What about evans, purito, armstrong, piti, leipheimer???? All GT riders that got better under your so called theory LOL

And there are prob many i'm missing out, nice try chump.

Armstrong was far superior in both TT and the mountains in his first 4 tour wins. From 2003-2005 riders like Ullrich(2003), Basso (2004-2005) could match him in the mountains. No doubt that he was still the best, but he wasn't as good as earlier.

And you choose examples like Evans, Purito, Piti and Leipheimer. Riders that have never reached the level of Contador.

I'm a big Contador fan, but this thread have become a joke. When somebody even question if Contador is as good as 2007-2011 you get hit by a shitstorm.

Straight out - do you think that Contador 2007-2011 or 2012-2016 is the better version? Dont poop*t me, just give a straight answer.

Evans, Purito, Piti and Leipheimer were never the best. Let's say on a scale from 1-10, at their best they were;
Evans; 9
Purito; 8
Piti; 7
Leipheimer;7

Armstrong and Contador were both 10's. And Armstrong dropped to maybe 9, and Contador have IN MY OPINION dropped to a level around 9-9,5 now. He's not that superman that rode away from everybody at will anymore. Back in the days you knew he was gonna win everytime. Now everybody are nervous before each moutain stage.

My list right now at their best; (level 1-10)
Froome 9,5
Contador 9-9,5
Quintana 8,5
Aru 8

Contador have to show me that he can beat the other guys in a direct battle consistently. And then show me that he can actually beat Froome at his best. His 2014 level would maybe have done it, we'll never know. In the Vuelta they were not at their best, but it was impressive that Contador won, when he was the one that should have been suffering most from their injuries.

I don't think your theory holds regarding career decline. The Armstrong case is very much the wrong case to use as your defense, as Armstrong was quite superior in 2004-05, regardless of Basso being able to keep up with him on some summit finishes. He was a better time trialist in 04/05, which meant he could rely more on the time trials. Furthermore he didn't have the world's best climber, Roberto Heras, as his superdomestique to pace him up the climb and drop everyone else like it had been done the years before. That made him look more vulnerable in the mountains, even if he actually wasn't.

However I don't think anyone disagrees with you about Contador. It is clear that he's not physically as good now as he was in 2009-11. 2014 was close to it, especially in the spring stage races. However, the feeling that he could do whatever he wanted to, was still missing in races like Volta Catalunya.
On the other hand, Contador is a much a more intelligent rider now than he was back then. Perhaps the problems he had in Vuelta '12 dealing with an on-fire Purito taught him a lesson, that he needed to play on other strings than just his pure (former) superiority as a climber.
It remains to be seen if he can come back to 2014 shape, and if he does it, he will have more tactical tools to utilize than he had in 2007-11. Hopefully that will give him the edge compared to Froome and Nairo

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

in all fairness needless to say there's a certain category of posters who base their hearty adoration to bertie on many factors very toxic dislike to sky included, so their 'objectivity' is under huge doubt, to put it mildly. probably, hollydolly tends to refer to them..

You have it the wrong way around, very toxic dislike of Sky is based on many factors, adoration of Bertie included.
HelloDolly is one of the last people who could school me about objectivity considering their irrational love for everything Sky and irrational hatred for (all fans of) Contador. They say they also "admire and respect" Contador but their posts in this thread don't show anything like that. Honestly I would not at all be surprised if this poster also had an account on the Team Sky fanforum (BikeRadar),

I sometimes stalk those forums and it's funny how they're so convinced they're 100% objective while slagging off Sky haters and rivals there is one particular poster who, time and time again, is surprised Contador has a wife at all because he "always thought he was batting it for the other side" oh and whenever Contador wins, the only thing that is mentioned is his gunshot victory salute and unanimous agreement is reached that he looks like and probably is a twa/t
Sorry, rant over.

i've never seen HollyDolly stating something like 'heck bertie ruins another gt for me' or 'contador to crash on the first week and abandone. nonetheless it constantly occurs with sky and i presume you clearly have a guess what posters it comes from. showing an emphatic dislike to your rider's biggest enemy and demanding respect for your favorite at the same time is quite laughable, though it's seemingly a basic forum driving force lol.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Sure guy, whatever floats your boat.
-----------------------------------------
Back on topic:

I'm curious to see what kind of TT Alberto can do today. I'm not expecting much, as it's flat and mostly straight with very few corners. If he could limit the damage today and finish with his main GC rivals tomorrow, all is still to play for for the overall. He really can't afford to lose more than 20 seconds today and tomorrow combined.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

@LaFlo
Isn't my entirely rational Astana fandom so much more fun than SKy and ther fandoms?

 

[Miburo]

Fleur, no riders don't decline suddenly from 31-33. If it's so obvious then give me examples of a rider from 31 who suddenly declined hard when he's 33. Should be easy no?

I gave you examples disproving it, come on fleurtje And i never said a rider's prime is at 33 btw but there are many riders who are still at the same level they were at 31 when they're 33.

And about armstrong, ferrari himself said armstrong was at his best in 2005.

 

[Red Rick]

There seems to be a trend across all sports that the longevity of athletes is increasing. Add to that that it's not just about age, its also about mileage. Contador never had super heavy schedules in a year. Plenty of times he stopped racing after the Tour

 

[Miburo]

Re:

There seems to be a trend across all sports that the longevity of athletes is increasing. Add to that that it's not just about age, its also about mileage. Contador never had super heavy schedules in a year. Plenty of times he stopped racing after the Tour

Exactly, in recent cycling riders are still at their peak because of that.

Times change, fleur just doesn't get that.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Miburo, what is it you don't understand: that the average peak years for an athlete are between 26 and 28, or that riders decline after their peak age?
Holy *** guy, stop it with the belittling tone. I'm sure in your mind you are always right and everyone else is wrong, but I bet the mods won't be happy with the way you voice your superiority complex.

 

[Miburo]

You disputed my claim that riders don't necessarily get worse between 31 and 33.

I'm not talking about prime my dear, stay on topic and don't get so mad

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Taxusa makes some valid points

Oops, I stopped reading here.

Me too

I now have them both on ignore so missed it all

Me too. More than two. Since I really don't enjoy diminishing others pleasure in whom they support, I have no compunction in ignoring those that are diminishing mine. Sadly, I suspect that knowing that they are ruining it for me (not personally, but as a Contador fan) may actually be regarded as a victory of sorts for some.

i wish someone would set up a Froome vs Contador, who is better thread, so that this place could be for discussions primarily about Contador, and not end up in the same round in circles debate, endlessly going over old ground, with opinions stated as though they were fact and a pretty low level of generosity of spirit all round.

The object of course is the basic premise "pull your own strings". I refuse to allow the mean spirited to pull my strings or push my buttons . Life is so much more joyous!

There have been many Froome vs Contador threads but there are always those that come here and so the circular arguments repeat endlessly. You just cannot allow it to affect you, that is what they want. Don't give them any power and they have none .

Meanwhile I hope Alberto has a good TT and shows some good form in PN. I'd like to see his final season be a really good one.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

There seems to be a trend across all sports that the longevity of athletes is increasing. Add to that that it's not just about age, its also about mileage. Contador never had super heavy schedules in a year. Plenty of times he stopped racing after the Tour

Indeed. The longevitt of athletes has increased through science and new training methods. This means athletes can perform at a high level until a later age. We see a similar trend in the normal population with people getting older. Science does that. It does not miraculously delay an athlete's optimal performing age i.e. career peak by a few years. It works as follows. At a certain age our body is at its peak for endurance (22 iirc), muscle mass peak is later (30 iirc). Science and nutrition can delay and slow the degradation, it however cannot delay the rise towards that peak. It would make no sense from a biological perspective.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

You disputed my claim that riders don't necessarily get worse between 31 and 33.

I'm not talking about prime my dear, stay on topic and don't get so mad

Miburo. If you don't get that after their peak, riders decline, you are beyond my help.
I am NOT claiming all riders decline between 31 and 33 because I never claimed all riders peak between 26 and 28. I am claiming that on average, a rider will decline between 31 and 33, because that is how our bodies work.

 

[Miburo]

Who declined between 31 and 33? If it's an average, then you should be able to give me examples of famous riders who in recent years declined don't you?

Evans won the tour at 34, piti had his best year at 35, canc is still a beast at 34, purito reaching his peak at 33, armstrong was at his best in his last tour. I would give you Boonen but injuries make that a difficult one. Frank schleck maybe? Although that's for clinical reasons

Just give me some examples, that's all i'm asking. In order to make a claim, you need evidence you know?

 

[cantpedal]

Re:

Who declined between 31 and 33? If it's an average, then you should be able to give me examples of famous riders who in recent years declined don't you?

Evans won the tour at 34, piti had his best year at 35, canc is still a beast at 34, purito reaching his peak at 33, armstrong was at his best in his last tour. I would give you Boonen but injuries make that a difficult one. Frank schleck maybe? Although that's for clinical reasons

Just give me some examples, that's all i'm asking. In order to make a claim, you need evidence you know?

for clinical reasons recent history may not be the best reference. See below for article on athletic peak ages
http://extremephysiolmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2046-7648-2-27

 

[LaFlorecita]

15s behind Dumoulin, 10s behind Izagirre, 9s behind Thomas, 7s behind Porte. What do you guys think?

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

15s behind Dumoulin, 10s behind Izagirre, 9s behind Thomas, 7s behind Porte. What do you guys think?

OK. Not great, but not bad. He is never really that good in 6km prologues usually. I'll give you more info on Tuesday