Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Amazinmets87]

Age definitely wasn't to blame for 2013. 30 is prime age for a cyclist, who peak later than fast twitch athletes.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

He was not aiming to peak for the Giro in 2015, he said it himself man. Instead of going for one super peak like 14' and 16', he wanted to be decent at both Giro and Tour. Didn't work out for the Tour because of Astana, the hard racing, double too hard overall. Simple as that.

2013 was his first full year after his ban, and after dominating GTs since 07', god knows how many reasons there are to explain this one bad year, the only one where he didn't win a GT.

And people don't give him enough credit for the Vuelta 12' win, coming in with close to no racing days at all.

He's by far the most consistent stage racer, not only in winning GTs but also throughout the season itself. And none of his rivals have gone through the bad luck and difficult circumstances he's been through since 2010.

No. Didn't work out only because the double is, nowadays, too hard to pull off. No matter how easy you can win one, when it comes to the Tour, all the big guys are there in a very good form.
Specialization makes racing more competitive, which undermines the possibility of being able to win two GTs in a row while they're very little separated from each other. There's no preparation that can enable you to win, no matter how good you are. And Contador, while not as good as he once were 6 or 7 years ago (I just don't believe he's able to perform as he did in Verbier or Etna, where he was able to pull numbers that he hasn't achieved ever since), he's still almost as good or even better than Froome or Quintana. Let's wait a couple more weeks and check it out.

Anyway, while I disagree that he isn't the most luck deprived of his main rivals (for instance, Quintana didn't win last year's Vuelta possibly because of illness; Froome also had to abandon due to crash, much like in le Tour of 2014. In 2011's Vuelta he didn't win, because Sky chose to favour Wiggins, like in 2012's Tour, otherwise he'd have 2 more GT wins under his belt at least), I agree that he's a fairly consistent guy when it comes to GT wins. That's just a matter of looking to his palmares and realizing that since 2012 he only didn't win anything in 2013.

Just to point out Martinelli, who was his DS at Astana, said this is the best Contador we've ever seen, thus better than Verbier or Etna. In effect at Verbier he was riding away from a past prime Armstrong and a still substellar Schleck, whereas on Etna he beat Rujano as the next contendant. Not Froome in peak shape.

And Michelle Ferrari, who is a more experienced and competent sports physician (doping conversation doesn't undermine his understanding of the subject), said blatantly that Contador wasn't at his best level. Not only him, but also the numbers the spaniard pull off demonstrate that he wasn't at his 2014 level (not to mention 2009), at least in the mountains.

And Martinelli said that after the ITT, not only stating what everybody saw (which was a fantastic performance), but also to relieve the pressure Aru would feel.

Ahh, but how would Ferrari have the data to make such a blatant assertion? Does he even know Contador's weight? As far as I know he's been sidelined from the sport. What is your source? I haven't read anything.

It was a brutal effort that, no hiding, every man exposed to his capabilities and Contador showed a dominant force. However, Contador did say he was having trouble breathing and with rythym, not having raced in so long, longer even than Porte and Froome, who in any case were slower. Now Porte seems to be hitting his potential. That was a stellar performance by him.

Everyone is playing psychological warfare. Froome's still "got work to do." I think Martinelli was speaking of the actual levels, because this same TT in 2014 I think Froome wins by a couple of seconds. Thus either Froome is still way off, or Contador is simply better, perhaps even than 2014. The question is whether or not he can still improve for the Tour. He seems to think he can and if there is still better to come from him, then Froome and Sky will not only have great difficulty detatching him, but keeping up. Wish Quintana were here. And if Porte can maintain this level and handle the pressure, watch out.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Baden Cooke put together his dream team for CyclingNews a day or two ago, this is what he said about Alberto:
Alberto Contador was someone who really impressed me immensely. In team meetings for example, he would really take charge and go around the room, pointing out to each rider what he was expecting of him, what they did or didn't do right the day before. He really put a lot of pressure on his teammates, but in a good way. He was probably the best leader I've ridden for in the way he conducted himself. He was just a ferocious competitor, never say die and just hard. Despite all his talent, he's just hard.

I think he can just go to the next level, he's extremely impressive.

It certainly makes you go deeper when he's sitting on your wheel and you're drilling it for him. It makes you go that little bit further, that little bit deeper because it's probably going to blow everyone's doors off and put him in a better spot. It's really motivating.

 

[rune1107]

Re:

Baden Cooke put together his dream team for CyclingNews a day or two ago, this is what he said about Alberto:
Alberto Contador was someone who really impressed me immensely. In team meetings for example, he would really take charge and go around the room, pointing out to each rider what he was expecting of him, what they did or didn't do right the day before. He really put a lot of pressure on his teammates, but in a good way. He was probably the best leader I've ridden for in the way he conducted himself. He was just a ferocious competitor, never say die and just hard. Despite all his talent, he's just hard.

I think he can just go to the next level, he's extremely impressive.

It certainly makes you go deeper when he's sitting on your wheel and you're drilling it for him. It makes you go that little bit further, that little bit deeper because it's probably going to blow everyone's doors off and put him in a better spot. It's really motivating.

Actually i didn't imagine him going around and taking charge in the bus, telling his teammates what they did good or bad the day before. All i have heard from people who have ridden with him, was that he was always thankful for their work. But it's awesome that he putting that sort of good pressure on the team! Former danish cyclist Rolf Sorensen, was watching the prolog live in Les Gets, and he said that he had never seen Alberto with the focus he has now. He said he looked like a man with killer instinct, fighting for what might be one of his last chances to win the Tour.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

He was not aiming to peak for the Giro in 2015, he said it himself man. Instead of going for one super peak like 14' and 16', he wanted to be decent at both Giro and Tour. Didn't work out for the Tour because of Astana, the hard racing, double too hard overall. Simple as that.

2013 was his first full year after his ban, and after dominating GTs since 07', god knows how many reasons there are to explain this one bad year, the only one where he didn't win a GT.

And people don't give him enough credit for the Vuelta 12' win, coming in with close to no racing days at all.

He's by far the most consistent stage racer, not only in winning GTs but also throughout the season itself. And none of his rivals have gone through the bad luck and difficult circumstances he's been through since 2010.

No. Didn't work out only because the double is, nowadays, too hard to pull off. No matter how easy you can win one, when it comes to the Tour, all the big guys are there in a very good form.
Specialization makes racing more competitive, which undermines the possibility of being able to win two GTs in a row while they're very little separated from each other. There's no preparation that can enable you to win, no matter how good you are. And Contador, while not as good as he once were 6 or 7 years ago (I just don't believe he's able to perform as he did in Verbier or Etna, where he was able to pull numbers that he hasn't achieved ever since), he's still almost as good or even better than Froome or Quintana. Let's wait a couple more weeks and check it out.

Anyway, while I disagree that he isn't the most luck deprived of his main rivals (for instance, Quintana didn't win last year's Vuelta possibly because of illness; Froome also had to abandon due to crash, much like in le Tour of 2014. In 2011's Vuelta he didn't win, because Sky chose to favour Wiggins, like in 2012's Tour, otherwise he'd have 2 more GT wins under his belt at least), I agree that he's a fairly consistent guy when it comes to GT wins. That's just a matter of looking to his palmares and realizing that since 2012 he only didn't win anything in 2013.

Just to point out Martinelli, who was his DS at Astana, said this is the best Contador we've ever seen, thus better than Verbier or Etna. In effect at Verbier he was riding away from a past prime Armstrong and a still substellar Schleck, whereas on Etna he beat Rujano as the next contendant. Not Froome in peak shape.

And Michelle Ferrari, who is a more experienced and competent sports physician (doping conversation doesn't undermine his understanding of the subject), said blatantly that Contador wasn't at his best level. Not only him, but also the numbers the spaniard pull off demonstrate that he wasn't at his 2014 level (not to mention 2009), at least in the mountains.

And Martinelli said that after the ITT, not only stating what everybody saw (which was a fantastic performance), but also to relieve the pressure Aru would feel.

Ahh, but how would Ferrari have the data to make such a blatant assertion? Does he even know Contador's weight? As far as I know he's been sidelined from the sport. What is your source? I haven't read anything.

It was a brutal effort that, no hiding, every man exposed to his capabilities and Contador showed a dominant force. However, Contador did say he was having trouble breathing and with rythym, not having raced in so long, longer even than Porte and Froome, who in any case were slower. Now Porte seems to be hitting his potential. That was a stellar performance by him.

Everyone is playing psychological warfare. Froome's still "got work to do." I think Martinelli was speaking of the actual levels, because this same TT in 2014 I think Froome wins by a couple of seconds. Thus either Froome is still way off, or Contador is simply better, perhaps even than 2014. The question is whether or not he can still improve for the Tour. He seems to think he can and if there is still better to come from him, then Froome and Sky will not only have great difficulty detatching him, but keeping up. Wish Quintana were here. And if Porte can maintain this level and handle the pressure, watch out.

Martinelli didn't have the data either. Only Tinkoff guys did.

http://www.53x12.com/#!giro-2015-and-more/nl8rl

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think the issue here is that rhubroma is talking about Sunday's ITT, whereas lenric is talking about the 2015 Giro.

 

[Carols]

Re:

Baden Cooke put together his dream team for CyclingNews a day or two ago, this is what he said about Alberto:
Alberto Contador was someone who really impressed me immensely. In team meetings for example, he would really take charge and go around the room, pointing out to each rider what he was expecting of him, what they did or didn't do right the day before. He really put a lot of pressure on his teammates, but in a good way. He was probably the best leader I've ridden for in the way he conducted himself. He was just a ferocious competitor, never say die and just hard. Despite all his talent, he's just hard.

I think he can just go to the next level, he's extremely impressive.

It certainly makes you go deeper when he's sitting on your wheel and you're drilling it for him. It makes you go that little bit further, that little bit deeper because it's probably going to blow everyone's doors off and put him in a better spot. It's really motivating.

Wow nice words from Cookie and a real look behind the scenes. Applying pressure in a nice way brings out the best in people. Not the way Tinkoff or Vino do it

No wonder Alberto isn't ready to retire. He will need to find an outlet for that ferocious competitiveness when he steps off the bike.

 

[jilbiker]

Re: Re:

Look at pics from spring and check his cheeks,he is leaner...but he can still lose a kilo from the belly imo

He has some unnecessary muscle on his chest (sorry CheckMyPecs) but it's hard to lose that. No fat though.

He'd probably need to stop spending so much time out of the saddle to reduce that muscle.

First off this picture does not show the guy in Duaphine current;y. His stomach is quite lean, cheeks are lean, I can barely find any fat. What I could not explain was the solid shoulders but know I figured it, its from spending hours training riding of the saddle. He must have spend like 75% of his training out of the saddle. I saw his twitter videos and he was out of the saddle. Well you need strong shoulders for that. He is playing to his strengths, I think all things being equal (no injuries, crashes etc), this will be a solid year

 

[lenric]

Let's hope that neither Contador, nor Froome/Quintana crashes (and Porte too, whom I believe can have a word to say regarding the podium, if his usual bad day won't happen). Good riders in good form are never enough. Great riders in great form are indispensable, especially a guy like Contador, who's the only one of the big 4 (apart from Nibali, but he won't be in top form) who's not afraid to attack from far. Guys like that, whether they're the best or not, are what makes this sport a joy to watch.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I will scream if Trofimov gets a Tour spot just because he's Russian. He's been useless.

 

[lenric]

Re:

I will scream if Trofimov gets a Tour spot just because he's Russian. He's been useless.

Who's better than him to occupy the last spot?

 

[rune1107]

Re: Re:

I will scream if Trofimov gets a Tour spot just because he's Russian. He's been useless.

Who's better than him to occupy the last spot?

I agree with Flo. I would much rather have one more guy for flat stages, than seeing Trofimov at the back every time the incline is above 4% !

 

[Matteo.]

I'm happy for the team performance , finally they look good.
Alberto lost 4s from Froome , but with this kind of finale i'm not worried. He lacks racing legs

 

[BlurryVII]

Let's just say we didn't catch that struggle and that awful grimace at the end there

2 possibilities, it was just a Montevergine (Giro 11') remake with the power sprint weakeness and nothing else.

If not, then he'll get dropped badly in the next days.

 

[lenric]

Re:

I'm happy for the team performance , finally they look good.
Alberto lost 4s from Froome , but with this kind of finale i'm not worried. He lacks racing legs

To be fair, so does Froome.

 

[Billopoulos]

Re:

Alberto lost 4s from Froome , but with this kind of finale i'm not worried. He lacks racing legs

Froome doesn't?

A bit of a worrying sign for Contador, hope it was just a lack of explosiveness.

 

[Carols]

Re:

[quote="BlurryVII"]Let's just say we didn't catch that struggle and that awful grimace at the end there

2 possibilities, it was just a Montevergine (Giro 11') remake with the power sprint weakeness and nothing else.

If not, then he'll get dropped badly in the next days.[/quote]


I didn't miss it, he was struggling big time

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Let's just say we didn't catch that struggle and that awful grimace at the end there

2 possibilities, it was just a Montevergine (Giro 11') remake with the power sprint weakeness and nothing else.

If not, then he'll get dropped badly in the next days.

It won't happen. He's obviously in decent shape. Just look at Sunday's stage.

 

[rune1107]

What worries me is that his found explosiveness and power was no where to be seen. But what the heck. The first real signs is the weekend

 

[Jakub]

Re: Re:

I will scream if Trofimov gets a Tour spot just because he's Russian. He's been useless.

Who's better than him to occupy the last spot?

Contador
Majka
Kreuziger
Hansen
Sagan
Gatto
Valgren
Bennati
Tosatto

 

[Miburo]

Haha and you guys call yourself a fan? Yet you don't know what the man his qualities are.

Guess you only watched his big stages and never finishes like this. Hilarious

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

I'm happy for the team performance , finally they look good.
Alberto lost 4s from Froome , but with this kind of finale i'm not worried. He lacks racing legs

To be fair, so does Froome.

Last time Froome rode a stage race was by the end of April. Last time Alberto rode a stage race was in the very beginning of April. However, Alberto has more racing days in his legs this year, if that is what you mean?
Anyway today's result is just a matter of Alberto not being suited for flat'ish climbs in the company of puncheurs. Froome has shown on numerous occasions that he's good on rather flat finishes like this, OTOH.

 

[BlurryVII]

I think Quintana would've struggled as well on a finish like this, Froome has definitely more power and can compete on these low gradient sprints.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

I'm happy for the team performance , finally they look good.
Alberto lost 4s from Froome , but with this kind of finale i'm not worried. He lacks racing legs

To be fair, so does Froome.

Last time Froome rode a stage race was by the end of April. Last time Alberto rode a stage race was in the very beginning of April. However, Alberto has more racing days in his legs this year, if that is what you mean?
Anyway today's result is just a matter of Alberto not being suited for flat'ish climbs in the company of puncheurs. Froome has shown on numerous occasions that he's good on rather flat finishes like this, OTOH.

Exactly , nothing to add

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

I think Quintana would've struggled as well on a finish like this, Froome has definitely more power and can compete on these low gradient sprints.

Yeah I agree. People sometimes forget but Froome is pretty good when it comes to these finishes, he's shown it at the Vuelta many times, even finishing like 8th once on a stage where Ewan won. Contador has finished that high up on easy finishes once, in Tropea 2011 but he attacked there so it's not really the same.