Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

He lost 30s there? Or is that before the top of the penultimate climb?

I think that was the final k

 

[BlurryVI]

Contador claims his left leg doesn't 'function' properly, he has awkward position on the bike and said he barely feels better than 2 or 3 days ago.

He has not recovered from his crashes, at all. He would never lose time on a stage like this, so there's no point trying to twist the truth around, he would very much be able to win the Tour if it wasn't for that.

I hope he'll be smart about this, and if he gets the final blow in the pyrenees, he should leave, rest, easy and prepare for the olympics and Vuelta. Riding while being out of contention would make no sense at all. He needs to be reasonable this time.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

He lost 30s there? Or is that before the top of the penultimate climb?

I think that was the final k

Well, Contador is on his way back. Back to finding ways to blow himself up like nobody else when he just can't follow. I mean, he drops on the final climb, almost comes back, actually blows himself up so hard that he loses half a minute on a last 500m drag to the finish? It's actually quite hilarious when you stop being sad.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Hmm...

He lost 30s there? Or is that before the top of the penultimate climb?

Looks like the finish. He must have cracked badly in the final 500m. Of course completely understandable given his injuries.

Its rather hillarious that we can see Kreuziger to look on him 400m before the finish and he stopped pedalling only like 100-200m before the line.OTOH we dont know team orders...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Hmm...

He lost 30s there? Or is that before the top of the penultimate climb?

Looks like the finish. He must have cracked badly in the final 500m. Of course completely understandable given his injuries.

Its rather hillarious that we can see Kreuziger to look on him 400m before the finish and he stopped pedalling only like 100-200m before the line.OTOH we dont know team orders...

If he'd dropped back here, he could have actually been helpful for Alberto, if only for a short time.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

Its rather hillarious that we can see Kreuziger to look on him 400m before the finish and he stopped pedalling only like 100-200m before the line.OTOH we dont know team orders...

It's shocking really, the team just seems to be a complete free for all with no plan. It's sad for Contador, Tinkov has a lot to answer for.

 

[mufana]

Re: Re:

Seems relevant to the discussion
https://twitter.com/TourDeJose/status/750761295486525440?s=09

The premise of that whole poll is wrong. I mean, do they even follow cycling?

Indeed. Crazy poll. She could have done a similair pol with the Giro/Nibali. Ok, he didn't crash but until stage 19 he was at 4'min and some seconds. Impossible to win. And then everything turned!

 

[Pennino]

Re:

Contador claims his left leg doesn't 'function' properly, he has awkward position on the bike and said he barely feels better than 2 or 3 days ago.

He has not recovered from his crashes, at all. He would never lose time on a stage like this, so there's no point trying to twist the truth around, he would very much be able to win the Tour if it wasn't for that.

I hope he'll be smart about this, and if he gets the final blow in the pyrenees, he should leave, rest, easy and prepare for the olympics and Vuelta. Riding while being out of contention would make no sense at all. He needs to be reasonable this time.

Aargh please stop that "he should leave" talk. The only thing he should do now is recover as damn fast as possible and lose as little time as possible this weekend. At least for me that's the only thing on my mind now. Hate the idea of another wasted TdF.

Today's time loss is not that easily comparable with a normal mountain stage though. This was very explosive and after losing contact with the group on such a critical moment, for whatever reason like missing just one pedal stroke or something, you're gone. While on a longer climb the pace is much slower, even when speeding at full power and I doubt whether that will be the case in all of those Pyrenees stages.

And the pain then... when climbing mountains on this type of level your body is hurting like hell even on places you never knew they existed and if someone is able to handle that properly it is Alberto. Yet, this different type of pain could also help to forget that other pain from the climbing itself.

The only things I am really concerned about are:
1) how much energy are the wounds demanding from the body
2) how much energy he has wasted trying to hang on while the other GC favorites quite easily where drafting behind the Movistar pace.

And also for this, it's a GT, everybody is suffering like hell, and I'm pretty confident Alberto could make it even harsher for them in the last week. And then everything can happen. I think he is right while saying to take it day by day, keeping the morale as high as possibile and even higher.

But man, you cannot even guess how I am praying that he could take some kind of pill that could take away all this suffering from him. What a bummer.

 

[BlurryVI]

I totally agree, but I just said that in case he's put out of contention in the Pyrenees, there's no point to continue then. The argument that he should not give up just to not give up because he is a champion / warrior or whatever doesn't stand for me. At some point, he has to be smart about it, he can't jeopardize the Vuelta for only finishing the Tour.

Ideally, I think he should keep up if he's no more than 2 mins 30 in GC after this week end, then the rest day could be real boon for him.

 

[patrick767]

Re: Re:

Hmm...

He lost 30s there? Or is that before the top of the penultimate climb?

Looks like the finish. He must have cracked badly in the final 500m. Of course completely understandable given his injuries.

Its rather hillarious that we can see Kreuziger to look on him 400m before the finish and he stopped pedalling only like 100-200m before the line.OTOH we dont know team orders...

If he'd dropped back here, he could have actually been helpful for Alberto, if only for a short time.

It's strange that Kreuziger wasn't there to help minimize his team leader's losses. I don't know if it happened too quickly, if Kreuziger ignored orders, or if perhaps given Contador's difficulties recovering from the stage 1 crash, the team wants to keep Kreuziger as well placed as possible in the GC so he can take over as the leader if Contador drops. If his form is good and he stays out of trouble, Kreuziger would have a small chance of salvaging a top 5 for the team in the absence of Contador. That would equal his career best. However, if the team is already thinking like that, they're very concerned about Contador's physical condition.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Its rather hillarious that we can see Kreuziger to look on him 400m before the finish and he stopped pedalling only like 100-200m before the line.OTOH we dont know team orders...

It's shocking really, the team just seems to be a complete free for all with no plan. It's sad for Contador, Tinkov has a lot to answer for.

Guess his teammates are looking for contracts next season and the TDF is the biggest showcase so no surprise seeing Kreuziger leaving him behind like that.

 

[mufana]

Re:

I totally agree, but I just said that in case he's put out of contention in the Pyrenees, there's no point to continue then. The argument that he should not give up just to not give up because he is a champion / warrior or whatever doesn't stand for me. At some point, he has to be smart about it, he can't jeopardize the Vuelta for only finishing the Tour.

Ideally, I think he should keep up if he's no more than 2 mins in GC after this week end, then the rest day could be real boon for him.

If you put some much work in training and focus on the Tour (the most important race) you don't just give up. Giving up is a tough decsision to make. Look at the 2014 Tour when he was forced to abandon. He looked beaten in the team car. I remember him crying.

So, give him a break and stop saying he should quit. It's disrepectull. Instead, be a true fan. A fan he needs now and support him.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

Hmm...

He lost 30s there? Or is that before the top of the penultimate climb?

Looks like the finish. He must have cracked badly in the final 500m. Of course completely understandable given his injuries.

Its rather hillarious that we can see Kreuziger to look on him 400m before the finish and he stopped pedalling only like 100-200m before the line.OTOH we dont know team orders...

If he'd dropped back here, he could have actually been helpful for Alberto, if only for a short time.

I actually think it's quite reasonable to not have Kreuziger drop back. At this point he might actually be Tinkoff's best bet for GC now.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

I totally agree, but I just said that in case he's put out of contention in the Pyrenees, there's no point to continue then. The argument that he should not give up just to not give up because he is a champion / warrior or whatever doesn't stand for me. At some point, he has to be smart about it, he can't jeopardize the Vuelta for only finishing the Tour.

Ideally, I think he should keep up if he's no more than 2 mins in GC after this week end, then the rest day could be real boon for him.

If you put some much work in training and focus on the Tour (the most important race) you don't just give up. Giving up is a tough decsision to make. Look at the 2014 Tour when he was forced to abandon. He looked beaten in the team car. I remember him crying.

So, give him a break and stop saying he should quit. It's disrepectull. Instead, be a true fan. A fan he needs now and support him.

well said. I don't know what jeopardizing Vuelta means anyway. It's not like he is going to kill himself like he did in the Giro to proof the point. The tour is long way. Ask Nibali when there's no hope of taking 4 minutes, boom. who da thought? We just didn't know the extend of his injury. He said his left leg. Is it muscle injury or is someone jammed his pedal to his thigh that makes a hole on his leg or something more serious like a fracture? If it's the later, he would have abandoned for sure. Until then, he will be loosing time on pyrenees. So be it. You don't prep for months w/ no setbacks then to just to give up when everything seems to be against you.

 

[rehy90]

Funny how some of you forgot after one stage how loyal Kreuziger has been in the last few years. This year he was supposed to ride Suisse for himself to secure the new contract, but then the team decided they want him with Alberto in the Dauphine. In the first stages of the tour he rode perfectly for Sagan and now after one mistake you are blaming him for Contadors loss. I think Majka was a lot worse today, because Kreuziger could still be a backup for GC, but Majka is minutes behind and today he finished few seconds before Rodriguez and had no chance of winning the stage. He could have waited for Contador, after all he was only a few hundred metres in front of him.

 

[Taxus4a]

After to see the way Kreuziger danced drunck in the disco in Vuelta 2010 party, and how he tried to kiss and spanish journnalist having girlfriend I can wait anything from him.

From Oleg Tinkoff there is no words to explain what I could wait for.

So,,, things are in this way.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Regardless of development on road, as long as Contador can ride his bike he should stay in the race.
Giving up in order to prepare for Vuelta would be such a second-rate act, miles below his reputation. Not even genuine Vuelta hunters, Tour domestiques, were doing that.
He should soldier on, see what can he achieve and arrive to Champs-Élysées holding his head high.
That's how champions do.

He's not one to give up unless he is just physically unable to continue. When he pulled out in 2014 the pain from simply riding and climbing was just too intense to continue. I'm sure he has been fully examined in this year's Tour to make sure there are no fractures. I think he is suffering from extreme discomfort at this point and I'm hoping that he can somehow recover over the course of the Tour to still make his mark. He has too much pride to quit because he's lost time.

All the talk of him being a "liar" really, really bothers me, such that I cut back on my time in this forum. In my book that is a very serious accusation to lay on someone and I just do not agree with it. What would he have to gain from these so called untruths (to use a softer word)? With each of these "lies" there is a reasonable explanation. Many posters have been led to this belief by the truly hateful anti-Contador forum members to accept his every word as false. Many are self-proclaimed fans of Contador. How can one be a fan of someone that they believe is supposedly a serial liar? It makes no sense to me. Okay my rant is over. I await the onslaught of abuse.

Bravo +100

 

[Tonton]

Re:

I totally agree, but I just said that in case he's put out of contention in the Pyrenees, there's no point to continue then. The argument that he should not give up just to not give up because he is a champion / warrior or whatever doesn't stand for me. At some point, he has to be smart about it, he can't jeopardize the Vuelta for only finishing the Tour.

Ideally, I think he should keep up if he's no more than 2 mins 30 in GC after this week end, then the rest day could be real boon for him.

Completely agree with you, and I made that point before as well: Alberto Contador has nothing to prove to us or to himself, unlike, say, Pinot last year. Most guys are coming to the Pyrenees very fresh, he is depleted. Why continue?

"Second place is not good" - The Great Alberto Contador. I think that I quote Flo's old signature accurately. So I ask: is third place OK? Because he has no chance to beat Froome and Quintana.

Pennino, my friend, I understand your points, I feel for you. But everyday that goes by, the gap opens between Berto, injured, not capable of recovering properly, and the rest. It would take a miracle. And I don't believe in miracles (see my signature).

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

He lost 30s there? Or is that before the top of the penultimate climb?

I think that was the final k

Well, Contador is on his way back. Back to finding ways to blow himself up like nobody else when he just can't follow. I mean, he drops on the final climb, almost comes back, actually blows himself up so hard that he loses half a minute on a last 500m drag to the finish? It's actually quite hilarious when you stop being sad.

I don't see anything at all funny about his predicament. Not a damn thing.

 

[ninjadriver]

Re: Re:

I totally agree, but I just said that in case he's put out of contention in the Pyrenees, there's no point to continue then. The argument that he should not give up just to not give up because he is a champion / warrior or whatever doesn't stand for me. At some point, he has to be smart about it, he can't jeopardize the Vuelta for only finishing the Tour.,,,,,

Completely agree with you, and I made that point before as well: Alberto Contador has nothing to prove to us or to himself, unlike, say, Pinot last year. Most guys are coming to the Pyrenees very fresh, he is depleted. Why continue?

"Second place is not good" - The Great Alberto Contador. I think that I quote Flo's old signature accurately. So I ask: is third place OK? Because he has no chance to beat Froome and Quintana......

I personally am big on Grand Tour victories, which include the Giro and the Vuelta. Contador, the most exciting Grand Tour racer I've ever seen (he inspired me to transform into an out-of-the-saddle climber), and arguably the best Grand Tour rider over the last 30 years, has zero shot at winning this year's Tour, or even a podium place unless he gets healthy and his form improves dramatically (no chance).

Were I Alberto, I'd abandon the TDF immediately, and focus on the Vuelta, which should be the easiest Grand Tour to win in years and years. Who will be there? The TDF contenders don't frighten me, since back-to-back high finishes at Grand Tours never works, and of the Giro performers, Nibali is at the Tour and will not race the Vuelta, ditto for Landa, Valverde and Majka. Leaving......Chaves and Kruijswijk.

Contador looks close to washed up to me - he hasn't been the same since his 2012 return from the piece-of-steak vacation, winning Grand Tours since then on guile and brilliant tactics - but I do think Alberto can win another Vuelta or Giro, especially if he avoids Froome, Quintana and a sharp Landa.

I'd much rather Alberto win the 2016 Vuelta, nabbing his 10th Grand Tour, than finish 6th at the TDF.

 

[Sciocco]

I'm mostly on the fence but he looks to be pedaling in a painful manner in a video I saw of the final KMs today. Why continue if he can't pedal correctly? Another Vuelta would tie him with Heras too and he could go for the record in '17 or '18. That's a hell of an accomplishment.

 

[thehook]

Ninja: I could not agree more. He should abandon. Shoot for LaVuelta. And the Olympics...He will never have another chance at a gold medal like this one.

I watched the replay of the stage a few hours after the finish. As soon as I saw Majka in the break on a Medium mountain Stage. AC was done. I hoped he would hang on. But it was not his day.

Can somebody tell me what Majka was doing? Roman has to ride. He cannot drop back if AC abandons he is all Tinkoff has. But once GVA hits the last climb Yates has to know Majka cannot win the stage. He should have sat up and waited. He could have paced AC when needed. And he would have lost more time. Which he wants to do. And hunted a high mountain stage.

 

[Netserk]

I really don't think it makes any sense to retire before the restday. As for the years to come, he has to target the Tour and give it his all, but he can of course ride the Vuelta as well (which was the plan all along in 2014). I don't think he can/will retire without finishing the Tour with good shape and without crashes (having a major impact).

 

[Tonton]

"Second place is not good - The Great Alberto Contador"

If I'm not misquoting the #1 Contador fan, and if I apply it to this situation, he shouldn't wait until rest day. He has nothing to prove to us or to himself. He's hurt, badly. Easy for us fans to imagine things like the "when he recovers", "when he gets back to full power" rubbish.

In a GT, you start at 100% (and Froome/Quintana/Contador's 100% is about the same), and as days go by, you go 98-97-95, and try to manage energy. Rest day, gain 1-2%. Lack of sleep, pain: he's way bellow his main opponents energy-wise. I bet that the other two are at 95 or so, and Bertie is at 90. If that.

Time to go Alberto. I agree that the Vuelta record would be huge. And he can give it another crack at next year's TdF. With a real team. Dedicated to him. When I saw Tinkov's happy face when Sagan won, after Alberto's misfortunes, it says it all. Today, where was the team for Alberto?

 

[Nacho]

So, if Contador was to withdraw soon from the TdF with the intent of getting ready for the Vuelta, and the others on Tinkoff stayed in the TdF to the end -- who is he going to get to accompany him at the Vuelta and be with him in the mountains? I don't think the others that are in the TdF would be ready in less than a month to give him a bunch of help when he really needed it.