Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[ninjadriver]

Re: Re:

Anyway, did Alberto fall so much in first years of his career? I don't think so. I think that might be sign of nervosity because he was no longer convinced he's stronger than Frooma or Quintana. He too sees own decline, or other riders rise.

I recall Froome crashing multiple times in 2014. Was that also due to nervousness and fear of one's opponent? Contador's first crash came in a high speed corner going onto a road divided by a raised island.......The best bike handlers will hit the pavement eventually. It is often beyond one's control.

ANGLIRU: It seems to me Contador, who rarely used to crash, has been crashing more in recent times, including in the 2014 Tour and in this year's Tour. Armstrong similarly crashed more upon his return. A product of age? Loss of confidence? Deterioration of bike handling skills? Loss of balance brought on by age, which I see in large quantities for Roger Federer, and also did for Kobe Bryant?

I always felt Contador was a far better bike handler than Froome, and so I don't see Froome crashing as analagous to Contador.

 

[Carols]

Re:

LOL AC thread hijacked by his haters and bashing, how surprising...

Grow up gentlemen.

Yes small minds have nothing better to occupy themselves with then hating and bashing. What a shame people choose to behave like hateful teenagers, all under the guise of 'discussion'.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Such an outrage amongst Velasco's fans!
Hilarious.
And not a single interesting reply cause you know, what I actually stated stands true.


Another thing to reflect upon. I've never seen someone with a fever going on a full *** attack like him.
Even his team totally abandoned him. Go figure.
He just isn't there anymore.
It's over, deal with it.

I have to admit I thought the attack was a bit odd. Contador knows his body well like most athletes and must have known before the attack that he was probably going to retire. Not sure why he kept hanging around his team car either, does it take that many conversations to quit the race ? With most riders it's pretty straightforward. But Contador is a proud man and sometimes the thinking gets a bit muddled in stressful situations. He still has the Tour in his head so he won't do the Giro again. He will finish up in the Vuelta next year probably, maybe not so much to win it but as a thank you to his fans and final send off.

 

[peloton]

Hard to disagree with Riis

It pained me of course to see Alberto abandon. Both for personal reasons, and the race's sake. He's like no other who gets a race exploded, and we will miss him in the Alps.

http://dpcc.dk/bjarne-riis-9-etape/

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

You should totally forget the Tour. Its just not good vibes for him. Even his 2 official victories were not without drama. He is still a legend. He has 2 TDFs so no one can say he did not win the best. Just get to double digits now (officially) in Grand Tour Palmeres.

Some would nuance that claim, but that is a conversation for another day.

Now you're trying to deny him the only two that are in the record books?

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

He was still with the peloton when he started speaking to the team car and effortlessly moved back up the peloton. He could have easily paced himself to the end, respected the race and regrouped to find for stages or KotM and generally help his team. This was the weakest retirement I've seen since the days of Cipollini.

If his health was endangers by be prospect of making an effort then his team should be punished for letting him attack over 100km out.

I don't think I've read, in all my years on this forum, a post as silly as this.

The moderator with the smack down :lol:

Yeah, and not the first time I've seen him do that either. Doesn't seem very objective, at all.

I might be mistaken but it's my understanding that a moderator is to be objective in their duties. They can still post in the forum, where being objective is not required. No rules were broken as far as I can see.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

2) Your last point is also pretty questionable.

I'm aware of that and that's how I wrote that the way I did.

" part bike handling which apparently isn't as good as we all thought it was." Has it come to your mind that it could got worse?

Hmm, whatever. Im no Contador-fan, but not as fierce as a hater like you by any stretch (I assume its cause of Kreuzi). All I say is the assumption of Contador being scared of x rider = more crashes is pretty hilarious and, if you looked at the race profiles of the Vuelta, Contador is much, much suited to that race than Kruijswijk.

Interesting comment about Contador and nervous. I don't think Contador is nervous of Froome and Quintana. But yes, I do think he is nervous, but to ... the race itself. He wants to win it, it's normal he is super cautious. So let's just imagine you are Contador. You are at the end of your career @33, but you felt, you have one elusive Grand Tour that always gave you trouble and not to mention since he was back, hasn't won it and not even a single stage win. You prep all year long with one goal only. This time I'm going to win it. You want it so badly. By the time the race starts, you are cautious, meticulous and you want it so bad. Now, don't you think that you are going to be a bit nervous? Because it's like a shot in a life time. He isn't Quintana with more years ahead, his time is limited. So, It's logical and normal to be a bit nervous. Hey I will. Same thing when you only have limited shot to get a dream job, I will be a bit nervous. Not to my opponent, .. but to the race itself .... where the bad luck can derailed all months of preparation and sacrifice.

Two, if you watched how he crashed, he wasn't overcooked or even close to the barrier, he was turning and his front wheel slides (maybe there's a bit of sand and he just happened to came in a wrong angle). You can watch it again. To me, it has nothing to do with bike handling. It was more unlucky. Second crash, well, Tony Martin.. (who da thought? could loose his grip on a bump )- Now, Martin, you can call it poor bike handling. Imagine you ride right behind him. He went down, so do you. That's just pure bad luck. Example of bike handling.. when Kelderman fell in descent in front of him, he managed to steer it out. If he is such a poor bike handling, he would have fallen again.

So don't you think that sometimes when you want things so bad, you become too cautious? Maybe things should be just as easy as just turning, but when it adds w/ pressure to be cautious, you end up fall. Or when you want thing badly, typically it doesn't come as you want it? I have no clear idea why he was so unlucky this year. But definitely isn't about declining. He still win the race and GT every year.

Out of how many TDF during his career (since 2007 - so that's 10 TDF (including the exclusion and the ban), he only won 2 (officially). So historically he hasn't had a good TDF either, whether because of the form, the ban, the team exclusion, the crash/the illness. So as you see, TDF is by far the only GT that gives Contador a lot of grieves. So give a guy a break. To say that he is declining or poor bike handling is just pure disrespectful.

 

[peloton]

@Jelantik very good post, nice work

 

[movingtarget]

Hard to disagree with Riis

It pained me of course to see Alberto abandon. Both for personal reasons, and the race's sake. He's like no other who gets a race exploded, and we will miss him in the Alps.

http://dpcc.dk/bjarne-riis-9-etape/

I think Froome does quite well in exploding the race and in a different way of course. He also seems to be better than Contador at causing gridlock and meltdown in the Forum ! The explosions are yet to come in this race. Froome's descent was just a taste I hope but I want to see a good race not one way traffic. Hopefully Quintana and others will also do something.

 

[amih77]

I watched a video couple of days ago about Alberto's new bike and some neat features it has. Also, praises Faustino's mechanical skills. However, I can't seem to find it now. Any help from the Contadoritas?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

2) Your last point is also pretty questionable.

I'm aware of that and that's how I wrote that the way I did.

" part bike handling which apparently isn't as good as we all thought it was." Has it come to your mind that it could got worse?

Hmm, whatever. Im no Contador-fan, but not as fierce as a hater like you by any stretch (I assume its cause of Kreuzi). All I say is the assumption of Contador being scared of x rider = more crashes is pretty hilarious and, if you looked at the race profiles of the Vuelta, Contador is much, much suited to that race than Kruijswijk.

Interesting comment about Contador and nervous. I don't think Contador is nervous of Froome and Quintana. But yes, I do think he is nervous, but to ... the race itself. He wants to win it, it's normal he is super cautious. So let's just imagine you are Contador. You are at the end of your career @33, but you felt, you have one elusive Grand Tour that always gave you trouble and not to mention since he was back, hasn't won it and not even a single stage win. You prep all year long with one goal only. This time I'm going to win it. You want it so badly. By the time the race starts, you are cautious, meticulous and you want it so bad. Now, don't you think that you are going to be a bit nervous? Because it's like a shot in a life time. He isn't Quintana with more years ahead, his time is limited. So, It's logical and normal to be a bit nervous. Hey I will. Same thing when you only have limited shot to get a dream job, I will be a bit nervous. Not to my opponent, .. but to the race itself .... where the bad luck can derailed all months of preparation and sacrifice.

Two, if you watched how he crashed, he wasn't overcooked or even close to the barrier, he was turning and his front wheel slides (maybe there's a bit of sand and he just happened to came in a wrong angle). You can watch it again. To me, it has nothing to do with bike handling. It was more unlucky. Second crash, well, Tony Martin.. (who da thought? could loose his grip on a bump )- Now, Martin, you can call it poor bike handling. Imagine you ride right behind him. He went down, so do you. That's just pure bad luck. Example of bike handling.. when Kelderman fell in descent in front of him, he managed to steer it out. If he is such a poor bike handling, he would have fallen again.

So don't you think that sometimes when you want things so bad, you become too cautious? Maybe things should be just as easy as just turning, but when it adds w/ pressure to be cautious, you end up fall. Or when you want thing badly, typically it doesn't come as you want it? I have no clear idea why he was so unlucky this year. But definitely isn't about declining. He still win the race and GT every year.

Out of how many TDF during his career (since 2007 - so that's 10 TDF (including the exclusion and the ban), he only won 2 (officially). So historically he hasn't had a good TDF either, whether because of the form, the ban, the team exclusion, the crash/the illness. So as you see, TDF is by far the only GT that gives Contador a lot of grieves. So give a guy a break. To say that he is declining or poor bike handling is just pure disrespectful.

I was defending Contador. Don't you agree that its ludicrous to think that Contador is shitting his pants, which was Kokoso's post that I disagree with, going up against Nairo and Froome and THATS why he is crashing? That was one of his points.

Off its nervousness, all the riders are nervous going into those 2 stages. There is an element of luck and Alberto hasn't hit the jackpot in this race in '14 and '16, tho both crashes, the first this year and in '14, was his own mistake. I don't think you can contribute it to being in slight decline either, but I do think that his bike handling may not be the greatest in the world and somehow a bit overrated. He also fell a lot on the Giro last year.

But if you ONLY contribute it to nervousness, wanting it bad, then maybe he should calm a bit more down. I know its easier said than done, but I think its a combinations of many things. All I did, actually, was just opposing a ridiculous claim and defended Contador (which I do rarely), but obviously, Im persona non grata so I deserved such a post.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Hmm, whatever. Im no Contador-fan, but not as fierce as a hater like you by any stretch

I wonder what purpose such words have. It is just...why? Lover, hater, neutral...does it change point? No, it doesn't. Totally useless.

 

[PatrickLeeds]

Re: Re:

I have to admit I thought the attack was a bit odd. Contador knows his body well like most athletes and must have known before the attack that he was probably going to retire.

I am clueless, just a spectator - but watching it I felt the attack was the action of a man who was not sure how sick/weak he was and was having one last attempt to make his body perform by will alone, and was the point he decided to withdraw.

Pat

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

[

In my opinion, KOKOSO, professional cycling principally is about money, not gratitude.

I am know that but you obviously did not read previous post otherwise you would know that.
Kreuziger wasn't riding against team orders, his radio wasn not working, we know that.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I watched a video couple of days ago about Alberto's new bike and some neat features it has. Also, praises Faustino's mechanical skills. However, I can't seem to find it now. Any help from the Contadoritas?

I've seen some articles but not a video, I'd love to see it if someone finds it

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

You are at the end of your career @33, but you felt, you have one elusive Grand Tour that always gave you trouble and not to mention since he was back, hasn't won it and not even a single stage win. You prep all year long with one goal only. This time I'm going to win it. You want it so badly. By the time the race starts, you are cautious, meticulous and you want it so bad. Now, don't you think that you are going to be a bit nervous? Because it's like a shot in a life time.

I generally agree that one gets nervous of the race, yes. But I also don't agree; 33 or 34 years of age is not end of career for pro cyclist, we know that very well. So no, not shot in a life time. Was that same in 2014? He was two years younger. Was that shot in a lifetime?
To say he's declining, there is nothing disrespectful in that. By declining I mean his performance is no longer as it used to be. You can argue with that but his results proove otherwise; even his fanboys agree on this I think. Post ban he managed 4th place at Tour and it was year when he told us he's in shape of his life. Ok, maybe his was as good as he used to be, but others improved. It doesn't really matter, still he declined relatively to others. When your margin to others is not as big as it used to be, you can be more nervous, do you agree?

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

I recall Froome crashing multiple times in 2014. Was that also due to nervousness and fear of one's opponent?

As far as Contador being in decline, of course he is. He's been racing at the elite level and winning grand tours for 10 years. To say he's "done", "washed up", "a has-been", ignores the fact that just last year he won the Giro and then still finished the Tour ahead of multiple riders chasing gc glory that focused only on the Tour. What is funny is that his previous level was so high that some of the morons on here see his Giro win as a sign of failure and his impending fall from grace.

It's sad and pathetic in a time of a riders trouble that there are so many that take it as an opportunity to pile on the bs denigration and revel in this riders pain. Says a lot about the sad cases that take such pleasure in another's pain and suffering.

Froome used to be terrible bike handler. Or it could be out of nervousness, yes.
I've never said he's done, washed-up or whatever.
I take no pleasure in fact he was forced to leave or whatever you mean. This is ridiculous.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I have to admit I thought the attack was a bit odd. Contador knows his body well like most athletes and must have known before the attack that he was probably going to retire.

I am clueless, just a spectator - but watching it I felt the attack was the action of a man who was not sure how sick/weak he was and was having one last attempt to make his body perform by will alone, and was the point he decided to withdraw.

Pat

Well I guess that could be right. Champions can put up with pain better than the average competitor which is one of the reasons they are champions. One last test of the body.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

Such an outrage amongst Velasco's fans!
Hilarious.
And not a single interesting reply cause you know, what I actually stated stands true.


Another thing to reflect upon. I've never seen someone with a fever going on a full *** attack like him.
Even his team totally abandoned him. Go figure.
He just isn't there anymore.
It's over, deal with it.

I have to admit I thought the attack was a bit odd. Contador knows his body well like most athletes and must have known before the attack that he was probably going to retire. Not sure why he kept hanging around his team car either, does it take that many conversations to quit the race ? With most riders it's pretty straightforward. But Contador is a proud man and sometimes the thinking gets a bit muddled in stressful situations. He still has the Tour in his head so he won't do the Giro again. He will finish up in the Vuelta next year probably, maybe not so much to win it but as a thank you to his fans and final send off.

I think Greg Lemond's explanation was perfectly sensible. Indeed, he said he had done the same himself: You think you will have to quit. You don't want to. You give yourself one more test, to see, if by some miracle, it turns out you are better than you think. It turns out you are not (no surprise really), so you finally (reluctantly) have to accept that the best thing to do is to admit defeat and abandon the race. I also happen to think that Contador would want to go out trying - for himself, his view of himself, for his sponsors and his fans.

If, like Contador, you are an attacking rider, with a heap load of pride and no doubt immensely annoyed at not being able to do what you want to do, and all the work you've put in coming to nothing this seems entirely 'in character' to me.

NIce post a few pages back, BTW, Angliru.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

2) Your last point is also pretty questionable.

I'm aware of that and that's how I wrote that the way I did.

" part bike handling which apparently isn't as good as we all thought it was." Has it come to your mind that it could got worse?

Hmm, whatever. Im no Contador-fan, but not as fierce as a hater like you by any stretch (I assume its cause of Kreuzi). All I say is the assumption of Contador being scared of x rider = more crashes is pretty hilarious and, if you looked at the race profiles of the Vuelta, Contador is much, much suited to that race than Kruijswijk.

Interesting comment about Contador and nervous. I don't think Contador is nervous of Froome and Quintana. But yes, I do think he is nervous, but to ... the race itself. He wants to win it, it's normal he is super cautious. So let's just imagine you are Contador. You are at the end of your career @33, but you felt, you have one elusive Grand Tour that always gave you trouble and not to mention since he was back, hasn't won it and not even a single stage win. You prep all year long with one goal only. This time I'm going to win it. You want it so badly. By the time the race starts, you are cautious, meticulous and you want it so bad. Now, don't you think that you are going to be a bit nervous? Because it's like a shot in a life time. He isn't Quintana with more years ahead, his time is limited. So, It's logical and normal to be a bit nervous. Hey I will. Same thing when you only have limited shot to get a dream job, I will be a bit nervous. Not to my opponent, .. but to the race itself .... where the bad luck can derailed all months of preparation and sacrifice.

Two, if you watched how he crashed, he wasn't overcooked or even close to the barrier, he was turning and his front wheel slides (maybe there's a bit of sand and he just happened to came in a wrong angle). You can watch it again. To me, it has nothing to do with bike handling. It was more unlucky. Second crash, well, Tony Martin.. (who da thought? could loose his grip on a bump )- Now, Martin, you can call it poor bike handling. Imagine you ride right behind him. He went down, so do you. That's just pure bad luck. Example of bike handling.. when Kelderman fell in descent in front of him, he managed to steer it out. If he is such a poor bike handling, he would have fallen again.

So don't you think that sometimes when you want things so bad, you become too cautious? Maybe things should be just as easy as just turning, but when it adds w/ pressure to be cautious, you end up fall. Or when you want thing badly, typically it doesn't come as you want it? I have no clear idea why he was so unlucky this year. But definitely isn't about declining. He still win the race and GT every year.

Out of how many TDF during his career (since 2007 - so that's 10 TDF (including the exclusion and the ban), he only won 2 (officially). So historically he hasn't had a good TDF either, whether because of the form, the ban, the team exclusion, the crash/the illness. So as you see, TDF is by far the only GT that gives Contador a lot of grieves. So give a guy a break. To say that he is declining or poor bike handling is just pure disrespectful.

Very nice post dear Jelantik. The only question I would ask is how could we of normal ability even begin to know how a Champion thinks? I believe their mind set is totally foreign to 99.9% of the population.

We hardly begin to understand our spouse and close familys thoughts and emotions and depend on them telling us. It is a trap to suppose anyones motives based on what I would think/do.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Such an outrage amongst Velasco's fans!
Hilarious.
And not a single interesting reply cause you know, what I actually stated stands true.


Another thing to reflect upon. I've never seen someone with a fever going on a full *** attack like him.
Even his team totally abandoned him. Go figure.
He just isn't there anymore.
It's over, deal with it.

I have to admit I thought the attack was a bit odd. Contador knows his body well like most athletes and must have known before the attack that he was probably going to retire. Not sure why he kept hanging around his team car either, does it take that many conversations to quit the race ? With most riders it's pretty straightforward. But Contador is a proud man and sometimes the thinking gets a bit muddled in stressful situations. He still has the Tour in his head so he won't do the Giro again. He will finish up in the Vuelta next year probably, maybe not so much to win it but as a thank you to his fans and final send off.

I think Greg Lemond's explanation was perfectly sensible. Indeed, he said he had done the same himself: You think you will have to quit. You don't want to. You give yourself one more test, to see, if by some miracle, it turns out you are better than you think. It turns out you are not (no surprise really), so you finally (reluctantly) have to accept that the best thing to do is to admit defeat and abandon the race. I also happen to think that Contador would want to go out trying - for himself, his view of himself, for his sponsors and his fans.

If, like Contador, you are an attacking rider, with a heap load of pride and no doubt immensely annoyed at not being able to do what you want to do, and all the work you've put in coming to nothing this seems entirely 'in character' to me.

NIce post a few pages back, BTW, Angliru.

Ah so Greg LeMond said basically the same thing Bob Roll (retired TdF rider) did. If we're speculating on Alberto's motives I'd surely give more credence to the possible explanation of 2 ex-pros, one a Champion, than the arm chair players here .

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

I think Greg Lemond's explanation was perfectly sensible. Indeed, he said he had done the same himself: You think you will have to quit. You don't want to. You give yourself one more test, to see, if by some miracle, it turns out you are better than you think. It turns out you are not (no surprise really), so you finally (reluctantly) have to accept that the best thing to do is to admit defeat and abandon the race. I also happen to think that Contador would want to go out trying - for himself, his view of himself, for his sponsors and his fans.

What LeMond says might be. Truth is, he knows same nothing as armchair players, it's just speculation, too. At the end it boils down to what you want or what you don't want to believe (or you may stay say neutral a consider both options possible).
I only wonder why did he not simply wait for stage itself to test him? It wasn't really necesessary to test himself this, by going on attack. He could just stay there and wait till real test comes and untill than he could eventually get better (or worse, of course).

 

[buchanan]

Quite a good commentary from velonews that I'm sure a few of us can agree with:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/commentary/commentary-time-contador-focus-vuelta_413927

 

[TommyGun]

So, no news on the Trek deal so far? Or is it because they cannot announce it before August 1st?

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Quite a good commentary from velonews that I'm sure a few of us can agree with:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/commentary/commentary-time-contador-focus-vuelta_413927

I love and I hate the Federer comparison