Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Vladivar]

Re:

Tomorrow gonna be fun, i was too early. The vuelta isn't over yet, if quintana didn't race the tour it would be over.

But despite his great form, it's very possible he'll feel the tour eventually.

I've to enjoy this, it won't be long before his career is over although we're in a dark timeline now.

But you know before the sun rises, it's darkest or something like that.

Its is always the darkest before the dawn

 

[KyoGrey]

Re: Re:

Contador hung on for dear life to Froome's wheel on stage 2, and still couldn't come around him in the sprint. This after being beaten in the TT the day before. How that translates to 'Contador was clearly better than Froome', idk

So Chris Froome was better than Alberto Contador in the 2014 Dauphiné Libéré now?

So was Alberto Contador better than Tejay Van Garderen in the 2016 Tour de France now? Comparing them after Froome's crash is ridiculous. Froome was clearly the stronger of the two before his crash

That is a very convenient argument, but I guess it is fair enough. We can instead compare both of them at 2014 Cataluña (where they were basically the same, Contador a little bit better) or at the 2014 Vuelta after both of them crashed at the Tour (where he beat Froome)...

TBH I don't know why I am getting so much hate about 2014 Contador and this "he would have been hunging for his life" theory. He was great that year in all senses. And not only in one race, he was consistently great.

Man, when Contador sucks I am the first to admit it no problem, but that year was special. I have followed him whole career and for me, it was the best version of him. But maybe it's because I don't like that much the ultra high cadence climbing of his youth.

 

[PremierAndrew]

For reference, Froome finished behind: Dan Martin, TJvG, Porte Zakarin and Bardet to mention a few at this year's Catalunya.

But unlike Catalunya, Dauphine has been a very good indicator of form going into the Tour (apart from Nibs, but let's not go into that here)

And sure, Contador was better than Froome at the Vuelta, and to suggest Froome didn't care for the Vuelta is ridiculous. He was beaten fair and square. But they both had a month to prepare for that Vuelta, unlike the Tour where they would have been preparing for several months, so to say that Contador would have beaten Froome in the 2014 Tour based off the Vuelta result is also not a valid argument

 

[Sciocco]

Contador has this Vuelta wrapped up. Red after ITT.

 

[Valv.Piti]

He was special that year, no doubt. No contest the best Contador post-ban, but we never actually got to see Contador beat an absolute full-peak Froome in France.

I personally think Froome has been close to his best at all the Dauphine's (2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016) and also proved to be half a level better than Contador in the opening stages of Dauphine where Contador similarly seemed very close to his best. Then Froome crashed, and then they both crashed in July. Its hard to assess, really, but it had been a good duel for sure, but there are no certainties. 55/45 in Froome's favour.

 

[KyoGrey]

Re:

For reference, Froome finished behind: Dan Martin, TJvG, Porte Zakarin and Bardet to mention a few at this year's Catalunya.

But unlike Catalunya, Dauphine has been a very good indicator of form going into the Tour (apart from Nibs, but let's not go into that here)

And sure, Contador was better than Froome at the Vuelta, and to suggest Froome didn't care for the Vuelta is ridiculous. He was beaten fair and square. But they both had a month to prepare for that Vuelta, unlike the Tour where they would have been preparing for several months, so to say that Contador would have beaten Froome in the 2014 Tour based off the Vuelta result is also not a valid argument

Lets be clear: the subject of the discussion is whether Contador would've hung for his dear life against Froome in 2014 Tour.

Your argument is YES based in Stage 2 of the Dauphiné where Froome and Contador arrived at s.t. and at the ITT where Froome won by 8 seconds. You also say that the other stages where Contador turned the table are not valid due to Froome's crash. Okey.

My argument is NO based in:
- In other races during that season where Contador and Froome competed under same circunstances (Cataluña, Vuelta), the Spaniard got the upper hand.
- Contador showed that that season he was also in an unprecedented good form in other races like Tirreno and Pais Vasco, while Froome had arguably one of his worst winter-springs preparations ever, full of illnesses.

But of course we will never know. Cheers.

 

[KGB]

Re:

Contador has this Vuelta wrapped up. Red after ITT.

We still don't know if Nairo or Froome win Vuelta 2016 and then we will join you on your 2017-18 page.

 

[red zone]

Re:

He was special that year, no doubt. No contest the best Contador post-ban, but we never actually got to see Contador beat an absolute full-peak Froome in France.

I personally think Froome has been close to his best at all the Dauphine's (2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016) and also proved to be half a level better than Contador in the opening stages of Dauphine where Contador similarly seemed very close to his best. Then Froome crashed, and then they both crashed in July. Its hard to assess, really, but it had been a good duel for sure, but there are no certainties. 55/45 in Froome's favour.

just because he lost doesn't mean Froome wasn't in great form at the 14 Vuelta

A large part of Froome's dominance at Le Tour is his team , something that seems to get overlooked very often when discussing which rider was better .

 

[Sciocco]

Re: Re:

Contador has this Vuelta wrapped up. Red after ITT.

We still don't know if Nairo or Froome win Vuelta 2016 and then we will join you on your 2017-18 page.

I'm not sure about 2017-18 but if I have to guess I'll say he gets Vuelta #5 in 2018 after skipping 2017.

And then the rainbow jersey.

It's to happen.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

For reference, Froome finished behind: Dan Martin, TJvG, Porte Zakarin and Bardet to mention a few at this year's Catalunya.

But unlike Catalunya, Dauphine has been a very good indicator of form going into the Tour (apart from Nibs, but let's not go into that here)

And sure, Contador was better than Froome at the Vuelta, and to suggest Froome didn't care for the Vuelta is ridiculous. He was beaten fair and square. But they both had a month to prepare for that Vuelta, unlike the Tour where they would have been preparing for several months, so to say that Contador would have beaten Froome in the 2014 Tour based off the Vuelta result is also not a valid argument

Lets be clear: the subject of the discussion is whether Contador would've hung for his dear life against Froome in 2014 Tour.

Your argument is YES based in Stage 2 of the Dauphiné where Froome and Contador arrived at s.t. and at the ITT where Froome won by 8 seconds. You also say that the other stages where Contador turned the table are not valid due to Froome's crash. Okey.

My argument is NO based in:
- In other races during that season where Contador and Froome competed under same circunstances (Cataluña, Vuelta), the Spaniard got the upper hand.
- Contador showed that that season he was also in an unprecedented good form in other races like Tirreno and Pais Vasco, while Froome had arguably one of his worst winter-springs preparations ever, full of illnesses.

But of course we will never know. Cheers.

No, the subject was whether 2014 Contador would have psychologically annihilated peak Froome and won that year's Tour as you put it

And yes, it all comes down to speculation

 

[DanielSong39]

I'm pretty sure Nibali would've smashed both Contador and Froome in 2014 Tour; his level was way too high.

But Contador could've finished a strong second; maybe 2-4 minutes behind.

And the crashes were forced to some extent; both Froome and Contador crashed because they got desperate trying to avoid shipping time to Nibali.

It would've been more fun if both Froome and Contador had finished the race but sometimes you have to give the man his due.

 

[KyoGrey]

Hahaha, I guess that is what happens when we discuss ovee fictional situations. I, for instance feel that peak-Nibali would've been behind both that Froome and that Contador that Tour.

It is such a shame. Fortune deprived us of seeing the last great Contador vs the best Nibali vs Froome...in a parcours which was pretty decent.

 

[PremierAndrew]

That could honestly have been one of the best Tours in history.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

So in this view, Lance still, has 7, Floyd 1[/b] (he did make the podium), Femke is the European U23 Champion and Rosie Ruiz won the 1980 Boston Marathon? Or is this more on a case-by-case strength-based judgement, but with the podium shot as a sine qua non?

Can't speak for the other two but to the bolded the answer is yes.

Interesting reply. Just one follow up, if I may. I assume you know who Femke Van den Driessche is. You can't speak on her because you don't have enough information on the relative strengths of the women's U23 CX field? Or is it because of something regarding her particular avenue towards success?

I didn't know who she was. Upon further thinking I'm guessing she's the one who had the engine? I follow woman's cycling, but I'm not deeply entrenched in it. I miss a lot of names and races.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

That could honestly have been one of the best Tours in history.

I will become a successful movie director and recreate it in a movie. It will be epic.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

That could honestly have been one of the best Tours in history.

I will become a successful movie director and recreate it in a movie. It will be epic.

Can you have Zubeldia doing a Pereiro, by the time the big 3 realise that he's up the road and that TV coverage had simply missed him in a one man breakaway, it's too late. Most likely outcome for the 2014 Tour imho

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

That could honestly have been one of the best Tours in history.

I will become a successful movie director and recreate it in a movie. It will be epic.

Can you have Zubeldia doing a Pereiro, by the time the big 3 realise that he's up the road and that TV coverage had simply missed him in a one man breakaway, it's too late. Most likely outcome for the 2014 Tour imho

Hmmm....not sure. My loyalties lie to far in one particular direction.

 

[hfer07]

I truly believe Contador deep inside wants to end this season and the Tinkoff team association all together. OTOH I still believe he has another GT victory in his legs-perhaps not the Tour but he can still win Il Giro o La Vuelta.

 

[Jelantik]

Reading Contador's interview on the rest day is very refreshing. He seemed happy and content with himself. There's a sense of calmness around him for some reason. He appears relax while he also admitted that he made a tactical error by being too impulsive. And he realized that his style of riding made him it is what it is. So now we know the answer... don't expect he wheelsuck very soon..

Now, I don't expect him to win the Vuelta. Because, most important thing is "he clearly enjoys the race" and from his answers, he doesn't seem too obsess that much that he lost too much time. I think that's important. Sometime you just have to let the race comes to him. He'll look day by day for opportunities. I guess that's all we can ask. We are the fans who put too much expectation and expect a miracle from him. I hope the media or the main contender forget about him (out of mind, out of sight), so he can fly under the radar until some opportunity arises. Good luck Bertie!

http://us3.campaign-archive1.com/?u=ec3e8e1740086f503f9ba786b&id=552c8c65a7&e=b51ed284f5

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Unlike some other Great riders in modern cycling, Contador showed unparalleled mental toughness and tactical abbility to overcome riders with the same strength as him during races.

A peak Contador (lets say 2009, 2011 or 2014) would have annihilated psychologically a peak Froome, driving him to commit errors, in the same way a peak Larry Bird would have abused a peak LeBron James.

Note that the comparison has to be made assuming same quality in team.

not this nonsense again, a 2014 peak contador would have done what to froome exactly, hang on for dear life then still get beat in the sprint.
its this sort of absolute horseshite that makes most right thinking posters despair of the very vocal minority of nut jobs who have about 200 pairs of blinkers on when it comes to discussing contador.

Thankyou for your kind words, specially the horseshit reference.

In 2014, Contador was superb during the whole season, including the Lanciano exhibición, in Gaintza against Valverde and in the Dauphiné finale against basically everyone including Froome.

But I guess Im just talking **** as I am clearly a nutjob. He would have hanged for his dear life in order to follow Froome.

Contador hung on for dear life to Froome's wheel on stage 2, and still couldn't come around him in the sprint. This after being beaten in the TT the day before. How that translates to 'Contador was clearly better than Froome', idk

So Chris Froome was better than Alberto Contador in the 2014 Dauphiné Libéré now?

Chris Froome was clearly stronger. He did ask AC about that coffee. :lol:

 

[burning]

Re:

I'm pretty sure Nibali would've smashed both Contador and Froome in 2014 Tour; his level was way too high.

But Contador could've finished a strong second; maybe 2-4 minutes behind.

And the crashes were forced to some extent; both Froome and Contador crashed because they got desperate trying to avoid shipping time to Nibali.

It would've been more fun if both Froome and Contador had finished the race but sometimes you have to give the man his due.

Yeah, Contador was very desperate 90k to go. Seriously, what did you smoke while writing that?

 

[Kokoso]

Pathetic, LaFlo. When damianster blames Contador you ask him why is he so sure that is isn't Kreuziger's problem, countering with ABSOLUTE CERTAINITY that Kreuziger is the one to blame even going as far as perceiving it as vendetta for 2013 Tour (Kreuziger never expressed any discontent for that and supported Contador absolutely loyaly in that Tour). Do you realizace, how ridiculous that is? Has question "how are you so sure that it wasn't Contador's problem" crossed your mind? I'd say so but delete button was pressed quickly. Even calling Kreuziger names - the post is now deleted. What was it, ***? I don't know now. The guy served him loyal for years. Those are Contador's fans (not all of them, not every time, as once some wise man said. And it isn't only this - always sure Contador was a victim etc.
Neutral tweet is perceived as certainly directed to Contador (hoho, big ego have those fans

 

[boasson]

Re: Re:

No one mentioned, that the ultrastrong in shape of his life Contador was 2 minutes down on Nibali after 10 stages of racing in the TDF 2014, was destroyed at the cobbles and was not able to drop Nibali at the first Uphill-finish - maybe the worst stage from Nibali at this TDF.

At the TT Nibali finished at 4th place behind Tony Martin, 20 secs behind Dumo and with the same time as Barta. I doubt that Contador would have gained any little second at Niba at this Stage. So there were 5 Mountain stages left for Contador to gain 2 Min time on Nibali. Three of them were easily won by Nibali with 6,0 -6,2 W/kg power outputs. At Hautacam for example, he won with 1.10 min of Pinot who finished second at this stage. How the hell you will drop such a rider with such a power output and beeing in the yellow jersey? And how the hell you will gain 2 Minutes?

That are the facts, all the other stuff is pure speculation and wish-thinking.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

For reference, Froome finished behind: Dan Martin, TJvG, Porte Zakarin and Bardet to mention a few at this year's Catalunya.

But unlike Catalunya, Dauphine has been a very good indicator of form going into the Tour (apart from Nibs, but let's not go into that here)

And sure, Contador was better than Froome at the Vuelta, and to suggest Froome didn't care for the Vuelta is ridiculous. He was beaten fair and square. But they both had a month to prepare for that Vuelta, unlike the Tour where they would have been preparing for several months, so to say that Contador would have beaten Froome in the 2014 Tour based off the Vuelta result is also not a valid argument

Lets be clear: the subject of the discussion is whether Contador would've hung for his dear life against Froome in 2014 Tour.

Your argument is YES based in Stage 2 of the Dauphiné where Froome and Contador arrived at s.t. and at the ITT where Froome won by 8 seconds. You also say that the other stages where Contador turned the table are not valid due to Froome's crash. Okey.

My argument is NO based in:
- In other races during that season where Contador and Froome competed under same circunstances (Cataluña, Vuelta), the Spaniard got the upper hand.
- Contador showed that that season he was also in an unprecedented good form in other races like Tirreno and Pais Vasco, while Froome had arguably one of his worst winter-springs preparations ever, full of illnesses.

But of course we will never know. Cheers.

Again, insane thinking. How did they compete under the same circumstances? Both coming back from an injury is not the same circumstances. I have broken my ankles many times, some times it has taken 4-5 weeks to come back, sometimes 3 months. These are similar injuries on the same person which have taken totally different amounts of times to heal.

 

[buchanan]

Re: Re:

No one mentioned, that the ultrastrong in shape of his life Contador was 2 minutes down on Nibali after 10 stages of racing in the TDF 2014, was destroyed at the cobbles and was not able to drop Nibali at the first Uphill-finish - maybe the worst stage from Nibali at this TDF.

At the TT Nibali finished at 4th place behind Tony Martin, 20 secs behind Dumo and with the same time as Barta. I doubt that Contador would have gained any little second at Niba at this Stage. So there were 5 Mountain stages left for Contador to gain 2 Min time on Nibali. Three of them were easily won by Nibali with 6,0 -6,2 W/kg power outputs. At Hautacam for example, he won with 1.10 min of Pinot who finished second at this stage. How the hell you will drop such a rider with such a power output and beeing in the yellow jersey? And how the hell you will gain 2 Minutes?

That are the facts, all the other stuff is pure speculation and wish-thinking.

Wasn't the gap closer to 3 minutes?