Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[buchanan]

Re: Re:

For reference, Froome finished behind: Dan Martin, TJvG, Porte Zakarin and Bardet to mention a few at this year's Catalunya.

But unlike Catalunya, Dauphine has been a very good indicator of form going into the Tour (apart from Nibs, but let's not go into that here)

And sure, Contador was better than Froome at the Vuelta, and to suggest Froome didn't care for the Vuelta is ridiculous. He was beaten fair and square. But they both had a month to prepare for that Vuelta, unlike the Tour where they would have been preparing for several months, so to say that Contador would have beaten Froome in the 2014 Tour based off the Vuelta result is also not a valid argument

Lets be clear: the subject of the discussion is whether Contador would've hung for his dear life against Froome in 2014 Tour.

Your argument is YES based in Stage 2 of the Dauphiné where Froome and Contador arrived at s.t. and at the ITT where Froome won by 8 seconds. You also say that the other stages where Contador turned the table are not valid due to Froome's crash. Okey.

My argument is NO based in:
- In other races during that season where Contador and Froome competed under same circunstances (Cataluña, Vuelta), the Spaniard got the upper hand.
- Contador showed that that season he was also in an unprecedented good form in other races like Tirreno and Pais Vasco, while Froome had arguably one of his worst winter-springs preparations ever, full of illnesses.

But of course we will never know. Cheers.

Again, insane thinking. How did they compete under the same circumstances? Both coming back from an injury is not the same circumstances. I have broken my ankles many times, some times it has taken 4-5 weeks to come back, sometimes 3 months. These are similar injuries on the same person which have taken totally different amounts of times to heal.

This has been discussed a lot over the years, but I'd argue that Froome certainly was not near his peak shape at the 2014 Vuelta. Just look at how he fared relative to some other rivals like Aru, Rodriguez and Valverde. At times he was having difficulty against them, whereas In TDF form he would be a whole level above them. His TT in that Vuelta was also way down on what one would expect when he is close to top form. His form was very erratic throughout that Vuelta. He said in an interview before the race that he was just using it to get good racing mileage in his legs for the following season. Obviously when he found he was in contention, he tried for the win. But his form just wasn't quite good enough and Contador's form was better.

 

[LaFlorecita]

How can you know Contador's form was better? We have no idea how their form was relative to each other. We only know the facts: they both crashed out of the Tour with fractures and finished 1-2 in the Vuelta, with Contador winning.

 

[boasson]

Re: Re:

No one mentioned, that the ultrastrong in shape of his life Contador was 2 minutes down on Nibali after 10 stages of racing in the TDF 2014, was destroyed at the cobbles and was not able to drop Nibali at the first Uphill-finish - maybe the worst stage from Nibali at this TDF.

At the TT Nibali finished at 4th place behind Tony Martin, 20 secs behind Dumo and with the same time as Barta. I doubt that Contador would have gained any little second at Niba at this Stage. So there were 5 Mountain stages left for Contador to gain 2 Min time on Nibali. Three of them were easily won by Nibali with 6,0 -6,2 W/kg power outputs. At Hautacam for example, he won with 1.10 min of Pinot who finished second at this stage. How the hell you will drop such a rider with such a power output and beeing in the yellow jersey? And how the hell you will gain 2 Minutes?

That are the facts, all the other stuff is pure speculation and wish-thinking.

Wasn't the gap closer to 3 minutes?

The gap was exactly 2:34 min to Nibali when he chrashed out. Impossible to gain that amount of time in the 5 Mountain stages against Nibali in the shape of his life.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

No one mentioned, that the ultrastrong in shape of his life Contador was 2 minutes down on Nibali after 10 stages of racing in the TDF 2014, was destroyed at the cobbles and was not able to drop Nibali at the first Uphill-finish - maybe the worst stage from Nibali at this TDF.

At the TT Nibali finished at 4th place behind Tony Martin, 20 secs behind Dumo and with the same time as Barta. I doubt that Contador would have gained any little second at Niba at this Stage. So there were 5 Mountain stages left for Contador to gain 2 Min time on Nibali. Three of them were easily won by Nibali with 6,0 -6,2 W/kg power outputs. At Hautacam for example, he won with 1.10 min of Pinot who finished second at this stage. How the hell you will drop such a rider with such a power output and beeing in the yellow jersey? And how the hell you will gain 2 Minutes?

That are the facts, all the other stuff is pure speculation and wish-thinking.

Wasn't the gap closer to 3 minutes?

The gap was exactly 2:34 min to Nibali when he chrashed out. Impossible to gain that amount of time in the 5 Mountain stages against Nibali in the shape of his life.

Nothing is impossible especially for an in-form Contador.

 

[Billopoulos]

Exactly as Fleur said.
BTW, let's not discount the fact that Nibali performed without real pressure from the other riders (after Froome and Contador had crashed out).
Getting mixed in a serious battle against Contador may not have left him so fresh and safe over the course of the Tour and then things could go to a different direction.

 

[Red Rick]

It is totally ridiculous to either suggest Contador or Nibali was 100% certain to win that 2014 TdF at the moment Contador crashed out. We'll never know. All we have is one hill top finish, where Nibali lost 3s in at the end.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

It is totally ridiculous to either suggest Contador or Nibali was 100% certain to win that 2014 TdF at the moment Contador crashed out. We'll never know. All we have is one hill top finish, where Nibali lost 3s in at the end.

Oh dear we are having this discussion again )

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

It is totally ridiculous to either suggest Contador or Nibali was 100% certain to win that 2014 TdF at the moment Contador crashed out. We'll never know. All we have is one hill top finish, where Nibali lost 3s in at the end.

Oh dear we are having this discussion again )

This discussion should be revived every few months, you can't blame us humans for it.

It would have been the greatest tour in the last 15 years if Contador didn't crash out.

 

[King Boonen]

I wonder if Contador fans will go on about 2014 for as long as England fans have gone on about 1966 for?


It's a shame to see him like this. Only he knows what he's capable of and where his head it at, but if I were him and I knew I didn't have it anymore I'd seriously be considering either retirement or re-defining my goals. Try for some one-day races. Another season or two of this will just diminish what has been a great career.

 

[Red Rick]

It will likely go on forever, just less frequent over time. That said, I don't think he'd diminish his career by going on for as long as he likes. That is just total bs. The greats should go on for as long as they like, and fans should enjoy it while it last. I'm happy Contador didn't retire after 2015, just as I'm happy Federer didn't retire after 2013.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I think Damian has a point here, Alberto isn't much of a leader. He has a very strong personality but that doesn't make someone a leader. Part of the blame definitely falls on him

What kreuziger did, with the tweet is rather pety, how pathetic

Baden Cooke's cycling dream team:June 06 2016

Leader: Alberto Contador

Alberto Contador was someone who really impressed me immensely. In team meetings for example, he would really take charge and go around the room, pointing out to each rider what he was expecting of him, what they did or didn't do right the day before. He really put a lot of pressure on his teammates, but in a good way. He was probably the best leader I've ridden for in the way he conducted himself. He was just a ferocious competitor, never say die and just hard. Despite all his talent, he's just hard.

I think he can just go to the next level, he's extremely impressive.

It certainly makes you go deeper when he's sitting on your wheel and you're drilling it for him. It makes you go that little bit further, that little bit deeper because it's probably going to blow everyone's doors off and put him in a better spot. It's really motivating.

I guarantee this will be ignored by most that insisted he was anything but a leader and not respected by his teammates.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

I wonder if Contador fans will go on about 2014 for as long as England fans have gone on about 1966 for?


It's a shame to see him like this. Only he knows what he's capable of and where his head it at, but if I were him and I knew I didn't have it anymore I'd seriously be considering either retirement or re-defining my goals. Try for some one-day races. Another season or two of this will just diminish what has been a great career.

Did Jordan tarnish his legacy by returning as a fraction of the athlete that he was? I would argue that he did not. He is still revered. There is a natural decline in all athletes performances over time.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

It will likely go on forever, just less frequent over time. That said, I don't think he'd diminish his career by going on for as long as he likes. That is just total bs. The greats should go on for as long as they like, and fans should enjoy it while it last. I'm happy Contador didn't retire after 2015, just as I'm happy Federer didn't retire after 2013.

I think calling someones opinion bs is against the rules, it's pretty rude whatever the actual stand-point.

He hasn't won the TdF since '09, he won the Giro in '15 against a load of kids who are now surpassing him and watching him get dropped off the back whenever the main GT guys go is just depressing, there's nothing to enjoy there.

I'll not write him off as Cav showed that a return to form after a few years of underperforming is possible, but at the moment it doesn't look good.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

It will likely go on forever, just less frequent over time. That said, I don't think he'd diminish his career by going on for as long as he likes. That is just total bs. The greats should go on for as long as they like, and fans should enjoy it while it last. I'm happy Contador didn't retire after 2015, just as I'm happy Federer didn't retire after 2013.

I think calling someones opinion bs is against the rules, it's pretty rude whatever the actual stand-point.

He hasn't won the TdF since '09, he won the Giro in '15 against a load of kids who are now surpassing him and watching him get dropped off the back whenever the main GT guys go is just depressing, there's nothing to enjoy there.

I'll not write him off as Cav showed that a return to form after a few years of underperforming is possible, but at the moment it doesn't look good.

He can't lose races he's already won, so I disagree that they'd be worth less if he wouldn't win again. Being afraid to lose isn't something I admire, so I really think it's a poor reason to retire. I see a man riding his heart out after crashing out in the Tour, and crashing heavily in the Vuelta, why is that bad to see? Besides, in the spring he showed he can still do plenty of damage.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

It will likely go on forever, just less frequent over time. That said, I don't think he'd diminish his career by going on for as long as he likes. That is just total bs. The greats should go on for as long as they like, and fans should enjoy it while it last. I'm happy Contador didn't retire after 2015, just as I'm happy Federer didn't retire after 2013.

Exactly.
Speaking of great champions, I wish Fabian would reconsider his retirement

 

[jilbiker]

Re: Re:

No one mentioned, that the ultrastrong in shape of his life Contador was 2 minutes down on Nibali after 10 stages of racing in the TDF 2014, was destroyed at the cobbles and was not able to drop Nibali at the first Uphill-finish - maybe the worst stage from Nibali at this TDF.

At the TT Nibali finished at 4th place behind Tony Martin, 20 secs behind Dumo and with the same time as Barta. I doubt that Contador would have gained any little second at Niba at this Stage. So there were 5 Mountain stages left for Contador to gain 2 Min time on Nibali. Three of them were easily won by Nibali with 6,0 -6,2 W/kg power outputs. At Hautacam for example, he won with 1.10 min of Pinot who finished second at this stage. How the hell you will drop such a rider with such a power output and beeing in the yellow jersey? And how the hell you will gain 2 Minutes?

That are the facts, all the other stuff is pure speculation and wish-thinking.

For all the talk about the illusionary top form AC of 2014, I still think he would not have made up that 2 minutes on Nibali, who was in extra top form. The sky train of 2016 would have been needed to make it a close contest

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

How can you know Contador's form was better? We have no idea how their form was relative to each other. We only know the facts: they both crashed out of the Tour with fractures and finished 1-2 in the Vuelta, with Contador winning.

And I know you haven't said it, but it's also important to note that the conclusions we can draw from this about what would have happened in the Tour are limited in validity

 

[buchanan]

Re: Re:

No one mentioned, that the ultrastrong in shape of his life Contador was 2 minutes down on Nibali after 10 stages of racing in the TDF 2014, was destroyed at the cobbles and was not able to drop Nibali at the first Uphill-finish - maybe the worst stage from Nibali at this TDF.

At the TT Nibali finished at 4th place behind Tony Martin, 20 secs behind Dumo and with the same time as Barta. I doubt that Contador would have gained any little second at Niba at this Stage. So there were 5 Mountain stages left for Contador to gain 2 Min time on Nibali. Three of them were easily won by Nibali with 6,0 -6,2 W/kg power outputs. At Hautacam for example, he won with 1.10 min of Pinot who finished second at this stage. How the hell you will drop such a rider with such a power output and beeing in the yellow jersey? And how the hell you will gain 2 Minutes?

That are the facts, all the other stuff is pure speculation and wish-thinking.

For all the talk about the illusionary top form AC of 2014, I still think he would not have made up that 2 minutes on Nibali, who was in extra top form. The sky train of 2016 would have been needed to make it a close contest

Where do you get 2 minutes from? The gap from Nibali to Contador was closer to 3 minutes. Certainly more than 2 & 1/2 minutes.

 

[jens_attacks]

time for 7 w/kg.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

No one mentioned, that the ultrastrong in shape of his life Contador was 2 minutes down on Nibali after 10 stages of racing in the TDF 2014, was destroyed at the cobbles and was not able to drop Nibali at the first Uphill-finish - maybe the worst stage from Nibali at this TDF.

At the TT Nibali finished at 4th place behind Tony Martin, 20 secs behind Dumo and with the same time as Barta. I doubt that Contador would have gained any little second at Niba at this Stage. So there were 5 Mountain stages left for Contador to gain 2 Min time on Nibali. Three of them were easily won by Nibali with 6,0 -6,2 W/kg power outputs. At Hautacam for example, he won with 1.10 min of Pinot who finished second at this stage. How the hell you will drop such a rider with such a power output and beeing in the yellow jersey? And how the hell you will gain 2 Minutes?

That are the facts, all the other stuff is pure speculation and wish-thinking.

For all the talk about the illusionary top form AC of 2014, I still think he would not have made up that 2 minutes on Nibali, who was in extra top form. The sky train of 2016 would have been needed to make it a close contest

Where do you get 2 minutes from? The gap from Nibali to Contador was closer to 3 minutes. Certainly more than 2 & 1/2 minutes.

It was 2'34.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

time for 7 w/kg.

Lol

 

[Valv.Piti]

It might seem harsh, but after the work done by Tinkoff today, I think its do or die today for Contador. Hoping he at least can hold on to Quintana.

 

[Miburo]

Re:

It might seem harsh, but after the work done by Tinkoff today, I think its do or die today for Contador. Hoping he at least can hold on to Quintana.

It is do or die for sure, get dropped today and it's really over.

It's been a while since i've seen Tinkoff ride like today, we all know how Contador is after a restday.

Let the party begin

 

[portugal11]

I can't see this sh#t anymore.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I can't see this sh#t anymore.

Then don't watch, simple.