Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Flamin]

Quintana won't forget what Contador did and will repay him whenever the opportunity rises. Today definitely wasn't one, as they were focused on winning the Vuelta and surely should not have burnt unnecessary resources just to please Alberto.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

The difference between contador and 99% of the peloton (froome inclued) is that contador enjoys winning and being competitive and the others enjoy riding his bike

???

He doens't enjoy riding his bike like the others. He was 6 months banned and he never reached his monster shape again.

That is nonsense.

I'll give you this quote, I'm sure you'll understand as a Portuguese

This is why it can be hard to warm to the guy at times. No word of congratulation for Chaves, or praising a great attacking ride by a rival. Just 'I didn't care about the podium anyway' at the same time as moaning that a rival team didn't help him finish on the podium. Compare and contrast with Froome's gracious reaction to losing today.

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

What yourself.

They gave him a chance to finish second. Doesn't mean that they have to ride for him on every stage after if he isn't good enough to take it.

you make no sense

I am sure you can do better than hiding behind a smiley and claiming I make no sense.

Or not?

But ok, let's try your game. Your post about Contador still finishing 4th regardless of the help Movistar gave him on the stage to Formigal makes no sense, because it's the amount of help that counts, not who eventually benefits the most.

 

[cellardoor]

In my personal opinion he knew early on that he wasn't on a super day. The fact that he relied on his team to close down the Froome/Quintana move in the early stages is evidence of this. I guess he wasn't in the red as such but also wasn't feeling great at the point where Chaves attacked. He made the calculation that if he followed Chaves he would probably blow-up completely and that either Sky or Movistar would have their own reasons to keep the pace high. As it transpired neither Sky nor Movistar were really interested in setting a high pace, which is a bit of a suprise and i don't blame Contador for thinking that they would. As it turned out it was a miscalculation and I think if he had covered the Chaves move then he would have sat up anyway as there was no point in continuing if Contador was there. On reflection I guess he felt that Movistar could have paid back a favour but I doubt he was relying on that at the point that Chaves attached.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Quintana won't forget what Contador did and will repay him whenever the opportunity rises.

Really?
Don't be silly. This was the moment, they had the numbers, all they had to do was push just a tiny bit harder and Contador would be happy. I highly doubt we'll see another "opportunity" to repay the favor before the end of next season and I'm sure if opportunity rises at the Tour, Quintana and Movistar will again be too occupied with other things.

 

[ruby]

Re: Re:

The difference between contador and 99% of the peloton (froome inclued) is that contador enjoys winning and being competitive and the others enjoy riding his bike

???

He doens't enjoy riding his bike like the others. He was 6 months banned and he never reached his monster shape again.

That is nonsense.

I'll give you this quote, I'm sure you'll understand as a Portuguese

This is why it can be hard to warm to the guy at times. No word of congratulation for Chaves, or praising a great attacking ride by a rival. Just 'I didn't care about the podium anyway' at the same time as moaning that a rival team didn't help him finish on the podium. Compare and contrast with Froome's gracious reaction to losing today.

yes Froome was gracious clapping Quintana over the line, but his style of riding his bike isn't gracious or inspiring to watch , even if his occasional attacks are

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

This is why it can be hard to warm to the guy at times. No word of congratulation for Chaves, or praising a great attacking ride by a rival.

He did congratulate Chaves, and Orica as a whole, for their tactics and a job well done.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Quintana won't forget what Contador did and will repay him whenever the opportunity rises.

Really?
Don't be silly. This was the moment, they had the numbers, all they had to do was push just a tiny bit harder and Contador would be happy. I highly doubt we'll see another "opportunity" to repay the favor before the end of next season and I'm sure if opportunity rises at the Tour, Quintana and Movistar will again be too occupied with other things.

What if Nairito punctured? This was not the moment at all. You focus 100% on your job when in that position.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

This is why it can be hard to warm to the guy at times. No word of congratulation for Chaves, or praising a great attacking ride by a rival.

He did congratulate Chaves, and Orica as a whole, for their tactics and a job well done.

Fair enough. I guess he was gracious enough then. Just a shame he has to pretend he doesn't care about the podium, when he's clearly been fighting all week for it.

 

[ruby]

Re: Re:

This is why it can be hard to warm to the guy at times. No word of congratulation for Chaves, or praising a great attacking ride by a rival.

He did congratulate Chaves, and Orica as a whole, for their tactics and a job well done.

the mutual support of the Orica team is great to see, imagine if Alberto had had a team like that

 

[Red Rick]

There's two things that could be going on here

1) He's at his current best and he went from winning one of the stage races with the best field in convincing fashion to getting dropped all over the place by the likes of Chaves in little over 4 months.
2) He's not as good as he can be right now, in which case the following questions are a) Why? and b) by how much?

He's been affected by either crashes or fatigue in all GT's he's done in the past 2 years. The question is how much that affected him.

I would like to see him take a page out of the Froome play book, and do a slower build up toward the GTs he contests. I don't think his days of winning GTs are definitely behind him, but it's clear that the days in which he could miss his peak slightly and still win because of sheer class definitely are. He should do everything to maximize his chances of peaking right. I remember being pretty mad when he missed out on PN and very excited when he won PV, but frankly now these results matter very little. For a rider like him, the GTs are what matters.

I'm kinda in dubio whether I'd rather see him go to the Giro or the Tour. Mostly because I'm kinda unsure about what his peak level is right now. I'm leaning toward the Giro, but nevertheless I'll be excited for the any GT he'll ride anyway. Unless it's once again the Tour after riding the Giro. I'd rather not see that again.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Quintana won't forget what Contador did and will repay him whenever the opportunity rises.

Really?
Don't be silly. This was the moment, they had the numbers, all they had to do was push just a tiny bit harder and Contador would be happy. I highly doubt we'll see another "opportunity" to repay the favor before the end of next season and I'm sure if opportunity rises at the Tour, Quintana and Movistar will again be too occupied with other things.

What if Nairito punctured? This was not the moment at all. You focus 100% on your job when in that position.

There's always something that can go wrong. So, Quintana won't repay the favor. Gotcha. Doesn't matter, but don't come up with a silly claim that he will repay it "when the opportunity rises"

 

[DFA123]

Re:

There's two things that could be going on here

1) He's at his current best and he went from winning one of the stage races with the best field in convincing fashion to getting dropped all over the place by the likes of Chaves in little over 4 months.
2) He's not as good as he can be right now, in which case the following questions are a) Why? and b) by how much?

He's been affected by either crashes or fatigue in all GT's he's done in the past 2 years. The question is how much that affected him.

I would like to see him take a page out of the Froome play book, and do a slower build up toward the GTs he contests. I don't think his days of winning GTs are definitely behind him, but it's clear that the days in which he could miss his peak slightly and still win because of sheer class definitely are. He should do everything to maximize his chances of peaking right. I remember being pretty mad when he missed out on PN and very excited when he won PV, but frankly now these results matter very little. For a rider like him, the GTs are what matters.

I'm kinda in dubio whether I'd rather see him go to the Giro or the Tour. Mostly because I'm kinda unsure about what his peak level is right now. I'm leaning toward the Giro, but nevertheless I'll be excited for the any GT he'll ride anyway. Unless it's once again the Tour after riding the Giro. I'd rather not see that again.

Great post. Completely agree about the peaking. He has to get it 100% spot on whichever GT he decides to target - and, as you said, to do that he must only target one GT. No more attempts at doubles.

The other thing now though is that his aura has gone. Even secondary GC riders like Pinot, Aru, Bardet, and Kruijwsijk aren't going to fear him anymore, and certainly aren't going to be afraid to attack him from long, like they may have been in the past.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

So, Quintana won't repay the favor. Gotcha.

The thing is there was no favour.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

It is a race for win, not a charity sunday stroll. Stage 15 they had common interest, today Movistar had no need what-so-ever to bring Chaves back. Why would they spend energy to do so and not focus on winning the race with the tactics selected?

Oh they didn't have to, it is a race after all, I just feel it would have looked good on them if they'd helped Contador just the tiniest bit. Because, you know, without Contador and Tinkoff they wouldn't even have won the race. But it is what it is, Movistar continues to alienate other teams and competitors. It's nothing new. Don't be surprised when we see Contador chasing down Valverde or lending Froome a hand in beating Quintana next year.

Oh and he is perfectly allowed to do that, it would be entirely his own decision and we should respect it. Like Astana's decision was to pull on Stage 15.

Btw. When looking back to history, remeber that you can't say that everything would've happened exactly how we saw it happening if something changed in proceeding. Therefore you cannot say Movistar won just because of Contador, without that break and 2 minutes they gained, the last 5 stages would"ve looked completely different and we will never know what the end result would have been.

This x 1000. In a nutshell, that's the way real life and sport in particular really work. in the world of assumptions, pantani 99 would've knocked out Lance in the 1999 Tour, Bertie would've smashed Sky in 2012, Quintana would've edged out Froome in the 2015 tour if there hadn't been a wind split... this list can pretty much be extended indefinetely but it makes no sense at all. the reality was different and history turned out different. We have no clue what might have occurred if stage 15 was uneventful. the whole race would've been different.

Bertie should definetely think over his future. if I were him, I'd probably focus on the 100th Giro. As of today beating Quintana and Froome in the tour seems almost unreachable.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

This is why it can be hard to warm to the guy at times. No word of congratulation for Chaves, or praising a great attacking ride by a rival. Just 'I didn't care about the podium anyway' at the same time as moaning that a rival team didn't help him finish on the podium. Compare and contrast with Froome's gracious reaction to losing today.

What? Seriously? That's one quote out of a several minute long interview. Some points:
- team lacked some strength in the mountains
- had expected some help from Movistar after stage 15
- Froome rode a good race
- Chaves and Orica deserve praise for the way they raced
- it's always better to finish on the podium but when you win, you learn a little, when you lose, you learn a lot
- it may shock some people but he isn't too bothered by losing the podium, you only live once (YOLO) and you should enjoy it, and he really enjoyed this race and the fans

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

So, Quintana won't repay the favor. Gotcha.

The thing is there was no favour.

Sure, if you say so.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

This is why it can be hard to warm to the guy at times. No word of congratulation for Chaves, or praising a great attacking ride by a rival. Just 'I didn't care about the podium anyway' at the same time as moaning that a rival team didn't help him finish on the podium. Compare and contrast with Froome's gracious reaction to losing today.

What? Seriously? That's one quote out of a several minute long interview. Some points:
- team lacked some strength in the mountains
- had expected some help from Movistar after stage 15
- Froome rode a good race
- Chaves and Orica deserve praise for the way they raced
- it's always better to finish on the podium but when you win, you learn a little, when you lose, you learn a lot
- it may shock some people but he isn't too bothered by losing the podium, you only live once (YOLO) and you should enjoy it, and he really enjoyed this race and the fans

Well I'm not too interested in listening to rider interviews; was just responding to what you posted. Fair enough if he praised the opposition - that's how it should be after a race. But, still, pretending he doesn't care about the podium at the same time as criticizing both Movistar and his own team for not delivering him onto the podium is a bit lame.

 

[cellardoor]

Re: Re:

This is why it can be hard to warm to the guy at times. No word of congratulation for Chaves, or praising a great attacking ride by a rival. Just 'I didn't care about the podium anyway' at the same time as moaning that a rival team didn't help him finish on the podium. Compare and contrast with Froome's gracious reaction to losing today.

What? Seriously? That's one quote out of a several minute long interview. Some points:
- team lacked some strength in the mountains
- had expected some help from Movistar after stage 15
- Froome rode a good race
- Chaves and Orica deserve praise for the way they raced
- it's always better to finish on the podium but when you win, you learn a little, when you lose, you learn a lot
- it may shock some people but he isn't too bothered by losing the podium, you only live once (YOLO) and you should enjoy it, and he really enjoyed this race and the fans

Well I'm not too interested in listening to rider interviews; was just responding to what you posted. Fair enough if he praised the opposition - that's how it should be after a race. But, still, pretending he doesn't care about the podium at the same time as criticizing both Movistar and his own team for not delivering him onto the podium is a bit lame.

"it's always better to finish on the podium"

 

[RattaKuningas]

Contador was definitely strong enough to finish on the podium but Orica as a team took it away from him. It is clear that Contador was stronger than Chavez (Contador got time back on last climb) but cycling is a team sport and Orica had very good tacticd and excellent ride by Howson.

I also don't get people who say that Contador must retire now. He is still a top 5 rider in the world. If you are among the 5 best in the world whatever you do you can keep doing it. I mean Contador clearly likes cycling and I think he will keep doing it as long as he can. As long as Contador keeps riding I will support him. In my opinion he still has potential for a better season next year. This year many things went wrong unfortunately but this doesn't mean that same will happen next year. Also as I have said previously I think that change of team might be a good thing at this point.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

This is why it can be hard to warm to the guy at times. No word of congratulation for Chaves, or praising a great attacking ride by a rival. Just 'I didn't care about the podium anyway' at the same time as moaning that a rival team didn't help him finish on the podium. Compare and contrast with Froome's gracious reaction to losing today.

What? Seriously? That's one quote out of a several minute long interview. Some points:
- team lacked some strength in the mountains
- had expected some help from Movistar after stage 15
- Froome rode a good race
- Chaves and Orica deserve praise for the way they raced
- it's always better to finish on the podium but when you win, you learn a little, when you lose, you learn a lot
- it may shock some people but he isn't too bothered by losing the podium, you only live once (YOLO) and you should enjoy it, and he really enjoyed this race and the fans

Well I'm not too interested in listening to rider interviews; was just responding to what you posted. Fair enough if he praised the opposition - that's how it should be after a race. But, still, pretending he doesn't care about the podium at the same time as criticizing both Movistar and his own team for not delivering him onto the podium is a bit lame.

"it's always better to finish on the podium"

He said he doesn't care about not finishing on the podium. When he clearly did.

 

[cellardoor]

Re: Re:

This is why it can be hard to warm to the guy at times. No word of congratulation for Chaves, or praising a great attacking ride by a rival. Just 'I didn't care about the podium anyway' at the same time as moaning that a rival team didn't help him finish on the podium. Compare and contrast with Froome's gracious reaction to losing today.

What? Seriously? That's one quote out of a several minute long interview. Some points:
- team lacked some strength in the mountains
- had expected some help from Movistar after stage 15
- Froome rode a good race
- Chaves and Orica deserve praise for the way they raced
- it's always better to finish on the podium but when you win, you learn a little, when you lose, you learn a lot
- it may shock some people but he isn't too bothered by losing the podium, you only live once (YOLO) and you should enjoy it, and he really enjoyed this race and the fans

Well I'm not too interested in listening to rider interviews; was just responding to what you posted. Fair enough if he praised the opposition - that's how it should be after a race. But, still, pretending he doesn't care about the podium at the same time as criticizing both Movistar and his own team for not delivering him onto the podium is a bit lame.

"it's always better to finish on the podium"

He said he doesn't care about not finishing on the podium. When he clearly did.

Well I didn't see the interview first hand and I'm assuming it may have been translated from Spanish but he seems to be saying he would have liked to have finished on the podium but he's not that upset that he didn't. That's not the same as saying he doesn't care.

 

[RattaKuningas]

It will definitely be interesting to see what happens in the future should Contador be in a positon where he can have an effect on Movistar riders race.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Here is the interview if anyone wants to hear what he says, it's georestricted though
www.rtve.es/m/alacarta/videos/vuelta-ciclista-a-espana/dep-vuelta-entrevista/3716123/?media=tve
I also hadn't seen that interview, now that I've seen it I must say that, looking at his body language, he certainly seems a little disappointed but besides that it's quite an honest interview.

 

[boasson]

Re:

There's two things that could be going on here

1) He's at his current best and he went from winning one of the stage races with the best field in convincing fashion to getting dropped all over the place by the likes of Chaves in little over 4 months.
2) He's not as good as he can be right now, in which case the following questions are a) Why? and b) by how much?

He's been affected by either crashes or fatigue in all GT's he's done in the past 2 years. The question is how much that affected him.

I would like to see him take a page out of the Froome play book, and do a slower build up toward the GTs he contests. I don't think his days of winning GTs are definitely behind him, but it's clear that the days in which he could miss his peak slightly and still win because of sheer class definitely are. He should do everything to maximize his chances of peaking right. I remember being pretty mad when he missed out on PN and very excited when he won PV, but frankly now these results matter very little. For a rider like him, the GTs are what matters.

I'm kinda in dubio whether I'd rather see him go to the Giro or the Tour. Mostly because I'm kinda unsure about what his peak level is right now. I'm leaning toward the Giro, but nevertheless I'll be excited for the any GT he'll ride anyway. Unless it's once again the Tour after riding the Giro. I'd rather not see that again.

Well, its not only about the last 2 years. With none of his GTs performances since the Giro 2011 he would be able to beat Froome in any GT when he is at his TDF 12,13,15,16 and Vuelta 16 level. He only won a few stages in GTs in the last 5-6 years, not wearing the yellow jearsey for 7 years.

Sometimes you have to accept that somebody is better than you. But its not said that you can not win against him. As we saw the 2nd best rider won the vuelta. Because of the better team and a suprise-move.

If he want to win a GT against Froome and Quintana he has to ride the perfect race. But with a normal one --> never.