Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[bambino]

Re: Re:

I would have bitten your hand off if you'd told me before the race he would lose 42 seconds to Froome but wouldn't crash. Totally worth it.
Still in the final 1.5km he was just empty. It was obvious from his body language as well as him losing 7s to Froome.

Well then eat my hand. And if, as you suggest, his tank at the end was notwithstanding empty, then I really can't say what you find worthwhile. He is either off form, or a coward.

I wouldn't call him coward, but indeed 42sec in todays grand tour GC cycling is ages. Especially in TDF against Sky-train. Ask Nairo and Nibs against seemingly lesser glimber.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

I would have bitten your hand off if you'd told me before the race he would lose 42 seconds to Froome but wouldn't crash. Totally worth it.
Still in the final 1.5km he was just empty. It was obvious from his body language as well as him losing 7s to Froome.

Well then eat my hand. And if, as you suggest, his tank at the end was notwithstanding empty, then I really can't say what you find worthwhile. He is either off form, or a coward.

I wouldn't call him coward, but indeed 42sec in todays grand tour GC cycling is ages. Especially in TDF against Sky-train. Ask Nairo and Nibs against seemingly lesser glimber.

How else do you rank a difference of 20 seconds? In this day and age? Either all in or out.

I mean the classical heroes used to die.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

I would have bitten your hand off if you'd told me before the race he would lose 42 seconds to Froome but wouldn't crash. Totally worth it.
Still in the final 1.5km he was just empty. It was obvious from his body language as well as him losing 7s to Froome.

Well then eat my hand. And if, as you suggest, his tank at the end was notwithstanding empty, then I really can't say what you find worthwhile. He is either off form, or a coward.

You might not agree with the decision he took, but it isn't cowardice to feel it is better to minimise the odds of putting yourself out of the race on the first day. It is circumspection/prudence. Valverde's injury is serious enough that he's currently in surgery and almost certainly out for the season. There is talk - albeit on social media, so probably worthless - that he might not race again. Ion has an unstable lumbar fracture and undergoing tests. You could argue that anyone who wasn't cautious in the circumstances today was foolhardy.

I'll take Contador not hitting the deck and 42 s down after seeing the horror of Vvde smacking his head into an unprotected barrier, being manhandled by spectators and not getting up, thanks. folks can be mighty gung-ho about others risking their lives.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

I mean the classical heroes used to die.

The quote of the day. Nice.

I'm getting very concerned for Contador. I know it's early, I know "better be safe than sorry", but as it was said, the thing hasn't even started and he finds himself down a significant amount of time...

 

[GuyIncognito]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-theres-no-other-way-but-to-go-on-the-offensive-says-contador/

Apparently he's decided on the Carlton Kirby tactic.
Permanently offensive.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I feel about Contador the same way I feel about Quintana and Porte. They are already a not significant amount of time down on a dynasty like Sky and they don't really have the firepower on their own teams to do big damage to Sky and Froome. The only way of winning, assuming we won't see a Formigal-repeat or Froome crashes out, is by them being quite a bit better than Froome uphill (which i don't see for any of them). Or, very unlikely, form an alliance to defeat Sky and that would probably have to include Bardet, Astana and Orica as well.

 

[Tonton]

I agree, and it better be stage 9, the perfect opportunity for a blood bath...after that, unfortunately, guys will start to make calculations, defend their 5th or 7th place...

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

I would have bitten your hand off if you'd told me before the race he would lose 42 seconds to Froome but wouldn't crash. Totally worth it.
Still in the final 1.5km he was just empty. It was obvious from his body language as well as him losing 7s to Froome.

Well then eat my hand. And if, as you suggest, his tank at the end was notwithstanding empty, then I really can't say what you find worthwhile. He is either off form, or a coward.

You might not agree with the decision he took, but it isn't cowardice to feel it is better to minimise the odds of putting yourself out of the race on the first day. It is circumspection/prudence. Valverde's injury is serious enough that he's currently in surgery and almost certainly out for the season. There is talk - albeit on social media, so probably worthless - that he might not race again. Ion has an unstable lumbar fracture and undergoing tests. You could argue that anyone who wasn't cautious in the circumstances today was foolhardy.

I'll take Contador not hitting the deck and 42 s down after seeing the horror of Vvde smacking his head into an unprotected barrier, being manhandled by spectators and not getting up, thanks. folks can be mighty gung-ho about others risking their lives.

Of course and the virtue of prudence, temperance and justice is meaningless without courage.

One has to be foolish in such circumstances, naive really, to give oneself over to potential triumph. If AC wants that then he should have considred his tactic in light of Froome, who held back nothing. Thinking about breaking a leg was not allowed.

Mighty gong-ho about risking others lives, no, it is everyone's choice, but the difference between 42 seconds at the Tour today amounts to that...Now take back 42 sec.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I agree, and it better be stage 9, the perfect opportunity for a blood bath...after that, unfortunately, guys will start to make calculations, defend their 5th or 7th place...

Yes, that sort of stuff HAS to be done on stage 9. Otherwise Sky will be able to control the rest really.

 

[jilbiker]

After Bertie's experience with falling down in the last couple of years, I would take the 40 secs. It is very important that he finishes this TDF standing up. He (and us) have to know if he is still good, or if others are better, or if team strategy has changed. If he finishes 5 minutes behind in this TDF with no crash, i will take it. He can safely say i gave it my best, guess I am all done, I can no longer compete with today's cycling. If he finishes 5 minutes ahead, he can also say, i am done.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

After Bertie's experience with falling down in the last couple of years, I would take the 40 secs. It is very important that he finishes this TDF standing up. He (and us) have to know if he is still good, or if others are better, or if team strategy has changed. If he finishes 5 minutes behind in this TDF with no crash, i will take it. He can safely say i gave it my best, guess I am all done, I can no longer compete with today's cycling. If he finishes 5 minutes ahead, he can also say, i am done.

How poetic. Well, at 34, if he isn't willing to dive bomb the wet turns in a 14 k TT against Froome, then he should say "I'm done."

 

[Tonton]

Re:

After Bertie's experience with falling down in the last couple of years, I would take the 40 secs. It is very important that he finishes this TDF standing up. He (and us) have to know if he is still good, or if others are better, or if team strategy has changed. If he finishes 5 minutes behind in this TDF with no crash, i will take it. He can safely say i gave it my best, guess I am all done, I can no longer compete with today's cycling. If he finishes 5 minutes ahead, he can also say, i am done.

I would agree with you if we were not talking about Alberto Contador, multiple GT winner. Losing by 5 minutes doesn't give him anything. He has that boxing champion mentality in a way. He thinks that he has that one big fight left in him.

Stage 9, as Valv.Piti and I mention, can be hamburger hills. Who in that field is willing to risk it all for a big payday? I would say Bardet and Contador. Porte, I'm not sure. But say, he's in, add Aru, you can isolate Froome in the GC, and in the Mont du Chat, one or two will take 2-3 minutes on Froome. Quintana? Man...I don't see him as a gambler. Valverde would have been the card for Movistar.

 

[rhubroma]

Well if Froome is so stunning on the climbs then where, pray tell, do we rank Gerans? I mean, there is so much to overcome.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Froome can afford to lose whereas none of the others can as they have not won a single tour in the last 7 years. So lesser risk but still in the game is ok than the Valverde conclusion. Contador's confidence would have taken quite a hit after quitting the last tour/2014 with crashes.

 

[Escarabajo]

Contador fans again at it. LOL. Contador did the right thing, especially with his late history of crashes. Live to fight another day.

 

[SHAD0W93]

No the time loss was not good. But their is 20 days left and anything can happen and the anything is me hoping he wins.

This forum is great but it always either hypes or buries a rider from just 1 stage in stage races.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

Nice to hear you went. Hope you didn't get too battered by the rain - it looked a really miserable day on TV. The TV coverage of Contador was pretty much non-existant between the starting gate and the final 500m (and terrible in general all day). All the focus seemed to be on Froome, Kung and Quintana, so it's hard to say where he lost time, but from his interviews it seems that he just took it easy on the corners.

Froome took the dangerous corners faster than most it seems, making most of his time there. Porte was shown on TV a lot and he could have almost got off his bike and walked around a couple he was going so slowly.

It wasn't torrential rain but it was just wet all day with at least a light drizzle all the time. Each time I thought I could put my umbrella away it got worse again. Of course just after the last rider had finished, the sky cleared
I had a spot just after the final km arch first, but on the side of the first km, if you know what I mean. But a large group of Polish fans thought it was a good spot as well, can't say much about their enthusiasm, they cheered for many riders but as more and more claimed their spot at the barriers I decided to walk a little further in search of a better spot. I found one, among a group of Sky fans, I later realized really embarrassing, they cheered only for (ex) Sky riders and British riders ("Go go Sergio!" "Go go Mikel!" "Go go G!" "Go go Richie!") except Dan McLay who they didn't seem to know. They didn't even clap for the other riders. Of course, this just motivated me more to cheer loudly for my favorites and I even cheered for Valverde and of course I clapped for everyone, though not as enthusiastically for Froome

Great to hear that you got to be there Flo. And yeah, an ITT is pretty good for spectators. I have never seen the TDF, but was at the final stage of the 2015 Tour De Swiss.

On social media Tony Martin has commented about great the crowd was with it's enthusiasm. But maybe that was just for him

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

Contador fans again at it. LOL. Contador did the right thing, especially with his late history of crashes. Live to fight another day.

I'm with you on this. He took his decision to go easy and lost a lot of time. But he stayed upright and live to fight another day. If he says his number is good, we'll see if that's true. For now, Froome up the, rest is goose egg.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

Contador fans again at it. LOL. Contador did the right thing, especially with his late history of crashes. Live to fight another day.

No it was a real shame to see Froome take it to him and his rivals on the gutts plane. Sky put 4 riders in the top 10. It's only first stage. Now go and take back 42 seconds on him. There is a differnece between prudence and disingenuousness. If Froome gains any more time in the mountains, it will be written he won the race on stage 1.

AC didn't want to have to win on a feat? Now that's just what he needs. Can't be considered the right thing.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

After Bertie's experience with falling down in the last couple of years, I would take the 40 secs. It is very important that he finishes this TDF standing up. He (and us) have to know if he is still good, or if others are better, or if team strategy has changed. If he finishes 5 minutes behind in this TDF with no crash, i will take it. He can safely say i gave it my best, guess I am all done, I can no longer compete with today's cycling. If he finishes 5 minutes ahead, he can also say, i am done.

I would agree with you if we were not talking about Alberto Contador, multiple GT winner. Losing by 5 minutes doesn't give him anything. He has that boxing champion mentality in a way. He thinks that he has that one big fight left in him.

Stage 9, as Valv.Piti and I mention, can be hamburger hills. Who in that field is willing to risk it all for a big payday? I would say Bardet and Contador. Porte, I'm not sure. But say, he's in, add Aru, you can isolate Froome in the GC, and in the Mont du Chat, one or two will take 2-3 minutes on Froome. Quintana? Man...I don't see him as a gambler. Valverde would have been the card for Movistar.

How do you isolate Froome with Thomas, Landa and Henao by his side?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Nice to hear you went. Hope you didn't get too battered by the rain - it looked a really miserable day on TV. The TV coverage of Contador was pretty much non-existant between the starting gate and the final 500m (and terrible in general all day). All the focus seemed to be on Froome, Kung and Quintana, so it's hard to say where he lost time, but from his interviews it seems that he just took it easy on the corners.

Froome took the dangerous corners faster than most it seems, making most of his time there. Porte was shown on TV a lot and he could have almost got off his bike and walked around a couple he was going so slowly.

It wasn't torrential rain but it was just wet all day with at least a light drizzle all the time. Each time I thought I could put my umbrella away it got worse again. Of course just after the last rider had finished, the sky cleared
I had a spot just after the final km arch first, but on the side of the first km, if you know what I mean. But a large group of Polish fans thought it was a good spot as well, can't say much about their enthusiasm, they cheered for many riders but as more and more claimed their spot at the barriers I decided to walk a little further in search of a better spot. I found one, among a group of Sky fans, I later realized really embarrassing, they cheered only for (ex) Sky riders and British riders ("Go go Sergio!" "Go go Mikel!" "Go go G!" "Go go Richie!") except Dan McLay who they didn't seem to know. They didn't even clap for the other riders. Of course, this just motivated me more to cheer loudly for my favorites and I even cheered for Valverde and of course I clapped for everyone, though not as enthusiastically for Froome

Nice, I spotted a load of polish flags about 1km in when Kwiatkowski went through, so kind of know where you must have been. The attitude of some fans is ridiculous; so irritating that they just cheer certain riders - maybe they just don't know many of the others though! I guess somewhere as accessible as Dusseldorf will attract a lot more casual watchers than on a MTF for example, but still, it's only right to support everyone - ultimately, they're all racing for our entertainment. Even the bad guys.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

After Bertie's experience with falling down in the last couple of years, I would take the 40 secs. It is very important that he finishes this TDF standing up. He (and us) have to know if he is still good, or if others are better, or if team strategy has changed. If he finishes 5 minutes behind in this TDF with no crash, i will take it. He can safely say i gave it my best, guess I am all done, I can no longer compete with today's cycling. If he finishes 5 minutes ahead, he can also say, i am done.

I would agree with you if we were not talking about Alberto Contador, multiple GT winner. Losing by 5 minutes doesn't give him anything. He has that boxing champion mentality in a way. He thinks that he has that one big fight left in him.

Stage 9, as Valv.Piti and I mention, can be hamburger hills. Who in that field is willing to risk it all for a big payday? I would say Bardet and Contador. Porte, I'm not sure. But say, he's in, add Aru, you can isolate Froome in the GC, and in the Mont du Chat, one or two will take 2-3 minutes on Froome. Quintana? Man...I don't see him as a gambler. Valverde would have been the card for Movistar.

How do you isolate Froome with Thomas, Landa and Henao by his side?

If somebody has better legs than Froome, they will get their opportunities.

 

[contador922]

His Tour looks close to being over. Not sure where his form is. Today looked like an extension of the Dauphine, regardless of the rain. Contador mentioned not going into the red at the Dauphine but lost 3 mins to Froome, Bardet, Porte and Aru on stage 8, yet Contador mentioned a few days ago he has 2014 form? He is either bluffing or is in denial about his form. Im not sure how he knows this build up is right.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

After Bertie's experience with falling down in the last couple of years, I would take the 40 secs. It is very important that he finishes this TDF standing up. He (and us) have to know if he is still good, or if others are better, or if team strategy has changed. If he finishes 5 minutes behind in this TDF with no crash, i will take it. He can safely say i gave it my best, guess I am all done, I can no longer compete with today's cycling. If he finishes 5 minutes ahead, he can also say, i am done.

How poetic. Well, at 34, if he isn't willing to dive bomb the wet turns in a 14 k TT against Froome, then he should say "I'm done."

WTF is wrong with you? All GC contenders except Froome were cautious. Losing 42 seconds is better than being out of the race on the first day. Especially because he is 34. This is his last TDF, one more chance to show what he's got. He can't do that if he's at home with a bone fracture.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

After Bertie's experience with falling down in the last couple of years, I would take the 40 secs. It is very important that he finishes this TDF standing up. He (and us) have to know if he is still good, or if others are better, or if team strategy has changed. If he finishes 5 minutes behind in this TDF with no crash, i will take it. He can safely say i gave it my best, guess I am all done, I can no longer compete with today's cycling. If he finishes 5 minutes ahead, he can also say, i am done.

How poetic. Well, at 34, if he isn't willing to dive bomb the wet turns in a 14 k TT against Froome, then he should say "I'm done."

WTF is wrong with you? All GC contenders except Froome were cautious. Losing 42 seconds is better than being out of the race on the first day. Especially because he is 34. This is his last TDF, one more chance to show what he's got. He can't do that if he's at home with a bone fracture.

Porte and Berto took it extra cautious, which is not good. I don't think Aru, Nairo, Bardet, Yates were that much more careful than Froome as the time difference were about the level to be expected, maybe max 5-10 more.

Conti loosing to i.e. Nairo in TT sounds almost a bad joke to me.

I agree in the way what some people say here... you can't really win Sky-train with being "cautious" in difficult racings days. Lot can still happen to Froome, but they do have Thomas to compensate and getting +1m back on him will be almost equally difficult should Froome fade/crash away.

This could very well be 1st and 2nd Sky if they want to go for it.