Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Well better get used to Cautious Contador because he is going to be descending Mont du Chat like a granny as well.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I don't know how it looks when he is saying such things as reaching his 2014-form. From what I know, he is usually best when he plays himself down - is that correct?

 

[DNP-Old]

Contador lost most of his time in the second part of the ITT anyway, which has nothing to do with being cautious as the second part was mostly just one straight road.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

After Bertie's experience with falling down in the last couple of years, I would take the 40 secs. It is very important that he finishes this TDF standing up. He (and us) have to know if he is still good, or if others are better, or if team strategy has changed. If he finishes 5 minutes behind in this TDF with no crash, i will take it. He can safely say i gave it my best, guess I am all done, I can no longer compete with today's cycling. If he finishes 5 minutes ahead, he can also say, i am done.

I would agree with you if we were not talking about Alberto Contador, multiple GT winner. Losing by 5 minutes doesn't give him anything. He has that boxing champion mentality in a way. He thinks that he has that one big fight left in him.

Stage 9, as Valv.Piti and I mention, can be hamburger hills. Who in that field is willing to risk it all for a big payday? I would say Bardet and Contador. Porte, I'm not sure. But say, he's in, add Aru, you can isolate Froome in the GC, and in the Mont du Chat, one or two will take 2-3 minutes on Froome. Quintana? Man...I don't see him as a gambler. Valverde would have been the card for Movistar.

How do you isolate Froome with Thomas, Landa and Henao by his side?

If somebody has better legs than Froome, they will get their opportunities.

Sure, but that has nothing to do with isolating Froome.

 

[bajbar]

Re:

I don't know how it looks when he is saying such things as reaching his 2014-form. From what I know, he is usually best when he plays himself down - is that correct?

It might not make sense, but the way he rode the TT might show he actually has some form. Remember how he rode the cobbles in 2014. On the other hand in 2013, when the form was sh*t he took all kinds of risks - descending Col de Manse (taking Froome down with him), Col de Sarrene etc. It is a shame that yesterday the conditions were so bad. Now we will have to wait for stage five to see what his form is really like... I just hope he avoids crashing or losing time in the next three days...

The fact that Sky has somehow managed to make half a team podium hopefuls doesn't help though. Froome not being the best was the only hope for an interesting race... Now we might see three weeks in yellow for Sky. Which is terrible and ridiculous...

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

Porte and Berto took it extra cautious, which is not good. I don't think Aru, Nairo, Bardet, Yates were that much more careful than Froome as the time difference were about the level to be expected, maybe max 5-10 more.

It seemed to me that Froome was much more cautious than Bardet. And probably at least as cautious as Quintana. They all went for it. Contador and Porte did not. It's also about bike handling skills, of course. The first three are obviously better at that.

But in the end it was mostly about Froome powering away from the opposition. A 25+ second advantage on a dry course would have also got the message across.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Contador lost most of his time in the second part of the ITT anyway, which has nothing to do with being cautious as the second part was mostly just one straight road.

Like I said, he lost 7 seconds in the final 1.5km, he was spent. But if he'd not been as cautious he might have lost 10-15s less.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I don't know how it looks when he is saying such things as reaching his 2014-form. From what I know, he is usually best when he plays himself down - is that correct?

As you say he'd be playing down his form, saying he'll take it day by day etc. if he was in super shape. So we can be quite confident he isn't as strong as in 2014.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

After Bertie's experience with falling down in the last couple of years, I would take the 40 secs. It is very important that he finishes this TDF standing up. He (and us) have to know if he is still good, or if others are better, or if team strategy has changed. If he finishes 5 minutes behind in this TDF with no crash, i will take it. He can safely say i gave it my best, guess I am all done, I can no longer compete with today's cycling. If he finishes 5 minutes ahead, he can also say, i am done.

How poetic. Well, at 34, if he isn't willing to dive bomb the wet turns in a 14 k TT against Froome, then he should say "I'm done."

WTF is wrong with you? All GC contenders except Froome were cautious. Losing 42 seconds is better than being out of the race on the first day. Especially because he is 34. This is his last TDF, one more chance to show what he's got. He can't do that if he's at home with a bone fracture.

Showing what he's got. Really? If that's all he has, he should have listned to Oleg.

 

[Red Rick]

You know when we learn something new?

If he reaches the mountains in good health. He hasn't done so since the Abetone.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Showing what he's got. Really? If that's all he has, he should have listned to Oleg.

Because you didn't get it the first time, let me be more clear:
He is now in the position to show us what he's got, because he didn't crash and break all his bones.
YES, this time loss doesn't do him any favors, but it's better than a crash. I really don't understand why you're so adamant a rider that crashed 9 times in his last 6 GTs should risk a bad crash on the very first stage.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Showing what he's got. Really? If that's all he has, he should have listned to Oleg.

Because you didn't get it the first time, let me be more clear:
He is now in the position to show us what he's got, because he didn't crash and break all his bones.
YES, this time loss doesn't do him any favors, but it's better than a crash. I really don't understand why you're so adamant a rider that crashed 9 times in his last 6 GTs should risk a bad crash on the very first stage.

Flo he lost 42 seconds to Froome in 14 k. He lacked both power and verve and yet he said he was in 2014 form. Certainly a broken leg is no worse than three weeks of getting *** slapped for a rider who was once king.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Showing what he's got. Really? If that's all he has, he should have listned to Oleg.

Because you didn't get it the first time, let me be more clear:
He is now in the position to show us what he's got, because he didn't crash and break all his bones.
YES, this time loss doesn't do him any favors, but it's better than a crash. I really don't understand why you're so adamant a rider that crashed 9 times in his last 6 GTs should risk a bad crash on the very first stage.

Flo he lost 42 seconds to Froome in 14 k. He lacked both power and verve and yet he said he was in 2014 form. Certainly a broken leg is no worse than three weeks of getting *** slapped for a rider who was once king.

Both for his sake and ours he needs to know where he stands compared to the others.

 

[Red Rick]

One thing I did notice is that his TT position just seemed off. He just seemed so much more aero back in the glory days.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Makes you wonder how he would have got on if Valverde hadn't gone down. Maybe the fall got into his head too much otherwise I think he would have took more chances on the bends. Maybe 20-30s down instead of 40 odd. Such a shame the weather had to play its part and not the form of the riders. Roll on the mountains and hopefully no more shitty weather, apart from a bit of wind and echelons, I like those! There's plenty of time, Contador is cunning and will still play his part.

 

[bambino]

Makes you wonder how he would have got on if Valverde hadn't gone down. Maybe the fall got into his head too much otherwise I think he would have took more chances on the bends. Maybe 20-30s down instead of 40 odd. Such a shame the weather had to play its part and not the form of the riders. Roll on the mountains and hopefully no more ****** weather, apart from a bit of wind and echelons, I like those! There's plenty of time, Contador is cunning and will still play his part.

Oh please don't make another excuse with the weather. It kind of is really integrally part of this non-indoor sport and yesterday it was the same for every rider.

I'm sure Berto himself is sick of excuses by now.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Its not an excuse for Contador as other riders fell away also, I was just pointing out that because of the weather the riders couldn't play to their form and we couldn't see who has form on this stage just those who decided to take risks. I ain't a Contador fan and making excuses, it was just my observation. What I do want is a fair fight and crap weather doesn't help.

 

[bambino]

Re:

Its not an excuse for Contador as other riders fell away also, I was just pointing out that because of the weather the riders couldn't play to their form and we couldn't see who has form on this stage just those who decided to take risks. I ain't a Contador fan and making excuses, it was just my observation. What I do want is a fair fight and crap weather doesn't help.

Well look, cycling isn't just about "form". It is also about handling bike and weather, taking calculated risks - so playing around all your advantages, not just good "form".

The weather was the same for all riders, so it was most definitely a fair fight and the ones playing best with their abilities succeeded. Ask i.e. Trentin.

 

[hrotha]

I don't think anyone's denying that, just saying it limits what conclusions can be drawn for the rest of the race.

Although I'd say that, even with those caveats, it wasn't a good sign for Contador.

 

[bambino]

Re:

I don't think anyone's denying that, just saying it limits what conclusions can be drawn for the rest of the race.

Although I'd say that, even with those caveats, it wasn't a good sign for Contador.

Saying yesterday wasn't fair fight because of weather sounds to me a lot like denial.

Of course the wet roads made it different than just comparing pure power/form and did not get us full view of how things might play out. But that is just part of the game, just like i.e going down hairy descent is not all about how strongly one can pedal.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

After Bertie's experience with falling down in the last couple of years, I would take the 40 secs. It is very important that he finishes this TDF standing up. He (and us) have to know if he is still good, or if others are better, or if team strategy has changed. If he finishes 5 minutes behind in this TDF with no crash, i will take it. He can safely say i gave it my best, guess I am all done, I can no longer compete with today's cycling. If he finishes 5 minutes ahead, he can also say, i am done.

How poetic. Well, at 34, if he isn't willing to dive bomb the wet turns in a 14 k TT against Froome, then he should say "I'm done."

WTF is wrong with you? All GC contenders except Froome were cautious. Losing 42 seconds is better than being out of the race on the first day. Especially because he is 34. This is his last TDF, one more chance to show what he's got. He can't do that if he's at home with a bone fracture.

Porte and Berto took it extra cautious, which is not good. I don't think Aru, Nairo, Bardet, Yates were that much more careful than Froome as the time difference were about the level to be expected, maybe max 5-10 more.

Conti loosing to i.e. Nairo in TT sounds almost a bad joke to me.

I agree in the way what some people say here... you can't really win Sky-train with being "cautious" in difficult racings days. Lot can still happen to Froome, but they do have Thomas to compensate and getting +1m back on him will be almost equally difficult should Froome fade/crash away.

This could very well be 1st and 2nd Sky if they want to go for it.

Is the first 14kms of the Tour going to be the difference between winning and losing ? Probably not. Porte and Contador had every reason to be cautious when you look at their recent history in the Tour and even if they had finished maybe 10 or 20 seconds behind Froome it's still unlikely to be the difference in winning and losing. Valverde is usually a very good bike handler so are most of the other riders that fell. There is always luck involved in such conditions and Porte and Contador preferred not to push theirs.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

After Bertie's experience with falling down in the last couple of years, I would take the 40 secs. It is very important that he finishes this TDF standing up. He (and us) have to know if he is still good, or if others are better, or if team strategy has changed. If he finishes 5 minutes behind in this TDF with no crash, i will take it. He can safely say i gave it my best, guess I am all done, I can no longer compete with today's cycling. If he finishes 5 minutes ahead, he can also say, i am done.

How poetic. Well, at 34, if he isn't willing to dive bomb the wet turns in a 14 k TT against Froome, then he should say "I'm done."

WTF is wrong with you? All GC contenders except Froome were cautious. Losing 42 seconds is better than being out of the race on the first day. Especially because he is 34. This is his last TDF, one more chance to show what he's got. He can't do that if he's at home with a bone fracture.

Porte and Berto took it extra cautious, which is not good. I don't think Aru, Nairo, Bardet, Yates were that much more careful than Froome as the time difference were about the level to be expected, maybe max 5-10 more.

Conti loosing to i.e. Nairo in TT sounds almost a bad joke to me.

I agree in the way what some people say here... you can't really win Sky-train with being "cautious" in difficult racings days. Lot can still happen to Froome, but they do have Thomas to compensate and getting +1m back on him will be almost equally difficult should Froome fade/crash away.

This could very well be 1st and 2nd Sky if they want to go for it.

Is the first 14kms of the Tour going to be the difference between winning and losing ? Probably not. Porte and Contador had every reason to be cautious when you look at their recent history in the Tour and even if they had finished maybe 10 or 20 seconds behind Froome it's still unlikely to be the difference in winning and losing. Valverde is usually a very good bike handler so are most of the other riders that fell. There is always luck involved in such conditions and Porte and Contador preferred not to push theirs.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but 40+ seconds sounds awful lot given the context of the Tours past years with Sky dominating.

I still don't think one can win that train by limiting losses taking thinks cautious. Do or die seems to be the only way to make it happen.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Makes you wonder how he would have got on if Valverde hadn't gone down. Maybe the fall got into his head too much otherwise I think he would have took more chances on the bends. Maybe 20-30s down instead of 40 odd. Such a shame the weather had to play its part and not the form of the riders. Roll on the mountains and hopefully no more ****** weather, apart from a bit of wind and echelons, I like those! There's plenty of time, Contador is cunning and will still play his part.

Why no bad weather? IMO cycling is usually way more fun when the weather is bad.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Makes you wonder how he would have got on if Valverde hadn't gone down. Maybe the fall got into his head too much otherwise I think he would have took more chances on the bends. Maybe 20-30s down instead of 40 odd. Such a shame the weather had to play its part and not the form of the riders. Roll on the mountains and hopefully no more ****** weather, apart from a bit of wind and echelons, I like those! There's plenty of time, Contador is cunning and will still play his part.

Oh please don't make another excuse with the weather. It kind of is really integrally part of this non-indoor sport and yesterday it was the same for every rider.

I'm sure Berto himself is sick of excuses by now.

Just believe
amigo
Tres semanas es una eternidad

 

[amih77]

0.001 chance that Alberto loses the TDF to Froome by 42 seconds or less. Therefore, no big deal.