Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

First bit being the steepest makes gaps somewhat unlikely.

maybe. the way I see it, if splits happen on the steep part they will only get bigger on the less steep 2nd part.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

First bit being the steepest makes gaps somewhat unlikely.

maybe. the way I see it, if splits happen on the steep part they will only get bigger on the less steep 2nd part.

Really doubt it will be ridden that hard. Nobody is going from the bottom.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

No no. The only possible issue for tomorrow are crashes/punctures... he will never get dropped in the final hill.

It wouldn't be the first time we see a GC contender lose seconds on such a finish. Also happened in (IIRC) 2015 and 2016.

 

[Netserk]

They'll be more than 20 riders with the same time. As long as Contador is in that group, he is fine.

 

[Valv.Piti]

If you are worried that Contador will lose time on such an innocent finish as tomorrow's, I doubt he will stand any chance at all in this race...

 

[TheYouyou7]

Re:

If you are worried that Contador will lose time on such an innocent finish as tomorrow's, I doubt he will stand any chance at all in this race...

Totally agree

 

[rick james]

Re:

If you are worried that Contador will lose time on such an innocent finish as tomorrow's, I doubt he will stand any chance at all in this race...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

If you are worried that Contador will lose time on such an innocent finish as tomorrow's, I doubt he will stand any chance at all in this race...

It's an explosive finish, we know he isn't explosive anymore. It has nothing to do with actual climbing form. He needs to start at the front or else he'll get caught behind a split for sure.
But I can already imagine the panicky posts if he loses 5 or 10 seconds I mean what has it come to if we can't even tell the fans from the haters and trolls.

 

[rhubroma]

I'm no expert, thus I can't judge the science (or science fiction as it were), but if it's real then perhaps Sky's performance in the opening TT was not as "humanly" dominant as it first appeared.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/skys-vortex-generator-skinsuits-questioned-by-tour-rivals-but-permitted-by-commissaires/

Presumably the 18-25 second gain was in reference to the distance of yesterday's TT? Contador being conservative in the corners, without the "vortex generator," may indicate that his performance was not so bad. The mountains will tell the truth. I'm not drawing conclusions, but perhaps there is something to this.

Here is Plasmon's comment:
Higher drag is caused by flow separation. The laminar "boundary layer" close to the surface grows out with length and a certain length separates (becomes all turbulent) creating drag (lower pressure). Creation of a vortex at the surface (and at the right point) interrupts this and causes the flow to "stick" to the surface further along the surface. Dimples on a golf ball allow flow to "stick" around the diameter and almost to the very back. On some airplane wings you will see small fins in a row that perform this function over the wing surface. They keep the flow close to the wing to lower drag and also make control surfaces more effective at lower speeds, even though they look "dirty". What UCI seems to be saying is you can not stick something ON a jersey like the wing vortex generators (little fins), but you can INTEGRATE it. In terms of effect it's semantics, but if a team did not ask if something was allowed, it's their fault, not Sky's (if that's what happened).

 

[rick james]

a skin suit will not gain you 20 seconds on a 14k TT

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

a skin suit will not gain you 20 seconds on a 14k TT

your legs do

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

a skin suit will not gain you 20 seconds on a 14k TT

several experts disagree with you

 

[Jelantik]

Considering Froome, Bardet, Porte crashed today and he is not, puff... at least he stays upright. These days when I'm watching him race, I'm holding my breath, hoping the luck is on his side. #fingercrossed.

 

[rick james]

20 second's, I just can't see it

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

20 second's, I just can't see it

I wouldn't have thought it either but I trust those experts know what they're talking about

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

a skin suit will not gain you 20 seconds on a 14k TT

I'm skeptical as well, but the technology is doubtless sophisticated and/or placebo effect might account for the "marginal gains." However, 20 seconds sounds like a stretch.

PS: Although they did ban skin suits for swimmers, because the gains were too great, so perhaps there is more advantage than one might imagine.

 

[rick james]

Doesn't matter anyway, UCI approved and folk need to move on from it

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

Doesn't matter anyway, UCI approved and folk need to move on from it

That's got nothing to do with the issue I raised and Trek certainly won't be just "moving on," when there is still the Marsailles TT.

The point was if Contador (and the other GC guys) lost time because of not wearing these skinsuits, then the differnence in actual fitness may not be so great as it first appeared. If so, then there is hope for the mountains.

PS: If there is that much advantage gained, then all the teams should have access to the same kit, otherwise the results are falsified. The UCI should consider this in its ruling. It's not the bike, but the rider himself that's modified.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Doesn't matter anyway, UCI approved and folk need to move on from it

That's got nothing to do with the issue I raised and Trek certainly won't be just "moving on," when there is still the Marsailles TT.

The point was if Contador (and the other GC guys) lost time because of not wearing these skinsuits, then the differnence in actual fitness may not be so great as it first appeared. If so, then there is hope for the mountains.

PS: If there is that much advantage gained, then all the teams should have access to the same kit, otherwise the results are falsified. The UCI should consider this in its ruling. It's not the bike, but the rider himself that's modified.

As I said earlier, the time difference from Froome to majority of GC contenders wasn't extraordinary high. I.e. Bardet would've lost just above 2m in 40km TT with the pace yesterday, which sounds about par comparing previous years.

For Berto and Porte the difference was too much. It was bad TT from Contador however you look at it, he lost to freaking Nairo Quintana, probably the first time ever.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

For Berto and Porte the difference was too much. It was bad TT from Contador however you look at it, he lost to freaking Nairo Quintana, probably the first time ever.

Which just shows they were probably super careful

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Doesn't matter anyway, UCI approved and folk need to move on from it

That's got nothing to do with the issue I raised and Trek certainly won't be just "moving on," when there is still the Marsailles TT.

The point was if Contador (and the other GC guys) lost time because of not wearing these skinsuits, then the differnence in actual fitness may not be so great as it first appeared. If so, then there is hope for the mountains.

PS: If there is that much advantage gained, then all the teams should have access to the same kit, otherwise the results are falsified. The UCI should consider this in its ruling. It's not the bike, but the rider himself that's modified.

As I said earlier, the time difference from Froome to majority of GC contenders wasn't extraordinary high. I.e. Bardet would've lost just above 2m in 40km TT with the pace tomorrow, which sounds about par comparing previous years.

For Berto and Porte the difference was too much. It was bad TT from Contador however you look at it, he lost to freaking Nairo Quintana, probably the first time ever.

But my point was that if the skinsuits gave Sky an advantage, Contador was perhaps less poor than it seemed. While taking it slow in the corners also reflected his ride against Quintana and Aru, for that matter, who both seemed to have been risking more in the curves.

Otherwise AC just rode terribly and his form doesn't leave much to be optimistic about for the mountains, or perhaps not.

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

For Berto and Porte the difference was too much. It was bad TT from Contador however you look at it, he lost to freaking Nairo Quintana, probably the first time ever.

Which just shows they were probably super careful

don't know if its true but I've read the Froome and Thomas put more time on the other GC guys on the long straight on the second half of the TT stage

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

For Berto and Porte the difference was too much. It was bad TT from Contador however you look at it, he lost to freaking Nairo Quintana, probably the first time ever.

Which just shows they were probably super careful

don't know if its true but I've read the Froome and Thomas put more time on the other GC guys on the long straight on the second half of the TT stage

Where less drag would have been greatly beneficial.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

For Berto and Porte the difference was too much. It was bad TT from Contador however you look at it, he lost to freaking Nairo Quintana, probably the first time ever.

Which just shows they were probably super careful

don't know if its true but I've read the Froome and Thomas put more time on the other GC guys on the long straight on the second half of the TT stage

They did, but you'd also expect motors like that do to that on a straight road. They are simply better. Question if how much these skin suits mattered.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

For Berto and Porte the difference was too much. It was bad TT from Contador however you look at it, he lost to freaking Nairo Quintana, probably the first time ever.

Which just shows they were probably super careful

don't know if its true but I've read the Froome and Thomas put more time on the other GC guys on the long straight on the second half of the TT stage

They did, but you'd also expect motors like that do to that on a straight road. They are simply better. Question if how much these skin suits mattered.

As per my reference to swiming above:

"Cyclingnews looked to clarify the situation with Team Sky's Tim Kerrison outside the team bus after journalists were told by one of the team's directors that the former swimming coach may know more on the situation. The request was denied, with an angered Kerrison stating that team protocol was for journalists to check with the team's press officer before interviews could be granted. Not for the first time it was left to the riders to face up to questions on behalf of the team management."

Clearly there is some benefit, just how much? All the teams need to be wearing this stuff, or none should be allowed. As it effectively changes the rider's physiology. It's not the bike, for which, in any case, there are rules about how much can be modified.