Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

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Jan 3, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
Of course he got ill during TA but there is this thing called incubation period. Since he raced that GP after TA I highly doubt he was already showing symptoms then.

If there were no symptoms at all why would they know that he got sick during. When you say you are sick, its when u got symptoms. The illness might not have peaked but you feel you are sick.
 
Cimber said:
I gotto agree with this. Its a pattern, even on flat stages he does that alot. He just likes to do it rogue style. Its ok in the mountains but not on the flats.



The Dauphiné team isnt super strong but for the Tour he will get Bennati and Mørkøv/Tosatto for the flats and in the mountains there is also Roche and Kreuziger who isnt riding Dauphine. While not as strong as Sky they should be quite good.

In ToC Rogers was excellent at organising the team who was almost always around him, especially when the **** hit the fan. Duting ToC Mørkøv even said:
"I think we are doing great as a team. Rogers is an inspirational captain who knows how to use the team to his advantage and as a collective".
Already back then it made me think that maybe he/they havent been used to that under Contador. Furthermore, here during the Dauphiné the Saxo DS has stated several times that they are using the stages to try to get the communication and the organisation sorted.

Contador is a great rider, but not necessarily a great at organising his team and use it best for his advantage. Could be an issue that most of his team consist of people from all over the world, and most of them with a very different culture. Add to that, that Riis has been away/hiding a lot due to the doping talk.

Imo he needs to befriend and trust Rogers/Bennati fast. He needs to stick to him and let them do all the team organising (Benatti on the flats and Rogers in the mountains)

Huh :confused: how do you know all this?

I trust Alberto to do the right thing. I mean who am I to judge him or his decisions.
 
Jan 3, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
Huh :confused: how do you know all this?

I trust Alberto to do the right thing. I mean who am I to judge him or his decisions.

Cos I am that smart ;) Joking aside, its a list of facts on which I build logical conclusions mixed with some speculation (like the cultural part).

Its not the end of the world that he might not be a great team organiser, as long as his lieutenants are and as long as he trusts them 100%.
 
Jan 3, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
1+1=????

1)He got ill

2)He raced TA especially stage 6 in **** conditions

1+1=2

I am very sorry but I trust the word of the DS over yours. No disrespect. HE had already trained in **** weather before TA, but the TA weather on stage 6 might have made it much worse of course.
 
I think it is stupid to conclude Alberto is not a good captain based on one statement of one rider about another.

Also, I much prefer Alberto riding alone in the front of the peloton than him riding behind his teammates at an unsafe spot.
 
Cimber said:
I am very sorry but I trust the word of the DS over yours. No disrespect. HE had already trained in **** weather before TA, but the TA weather on stage 6 might have made it much worse of course.

I'm sorry, no disrespect, but it would be very strange if he was ill during TA, and got several days of high fever several days after TA. That is like a week in between. That is really weird.

And what did his ds really say? That he was ill during TA, or that he got ill during TA? There is a big difference.
 
Jan 3, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
I think it is stupid to conclude Alberto is not a good captain based on one statement of one rider about another.

Also, I much prefer Alberto riding alone in the front of the peloton than him riding behind his teammates at an unsafe spot.

I didn't said I made my conclusions based on one fact, but on facts. Neither did I claim he isn't a good team captain (of course he will be the team captain). What I did say was that he might not be the best team organiser and that it probably feels natural for him to flicker around by himself.

Facts:

1) We have seen countless times where Contador is alone. One second he might be on the wheel of a team mate, the next second he is alone on the other side of the peloton, 1 minute later he is alone on the other side in the wind (this happens in most races and in all terrain)

2) in ToC the team was always around Rogers and he was praised by his team mate for his ability to organise his team.

3) the DS stated that part of the goal for Dauphine is to get the organisation and communication sorted (meaning it hasn't been so far)

Of course your are free to draw your own conclusions based on those facts. I drew mine.
 
Jan 3, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
But if his lieutenants can't keep him safe, he shouldn't trust them and should take matters into his own hands.

They aren't gonna be able to keep him safe if he flickers around all the time.
 
Jan 3, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
I'm sorry, no disrespect, but it would be very strange if he was ill during TA, and got several days of high fever several days after TA. That is like a week in between. That is really weird.

And what did his ds really say? That he was ill during TA, or that he got ill during TA? There is a big difference.

He got ill during TA. Meaning he wasn't sick during all of the race, but probably just the last stage(s), and it might have build up slowly and then accelerated after that stage with bad weather. But that's only speculation. Accoding to the DS he got sick during the race, i.e. he probably wasn't 100% during all the stages.
 
Cimber said:
I didn't said I made my conclusions based on one fact, but on facts. Neither did I claim he isn't a good team captain (of course he will be the team captain). What I did say was that he might not be the best team organiser and that it probably feels natural for him to flicker around by himself.

Facts:

1) We have seen countless times where Contador is alone. One second he might be on the wheel of a team mate, the next second he is alone on the other side of the peloton, 1 minute later he is alone on the other side in the wind (this happens in most races and in all terrain)

2) in ToC the team was always around Rogers and he was praised by his team mate for his ability to organise his team.

3) the DS stated that part of the goal for Dauphine is to get the organisation and communication sorted (meaning it hasn't been so far)

Of course your are free to draw your own conclusions based on those facts. I drew mine.

Imo you are reading way too much into it. oh well.
 
Cimber said:
He got ill during TA. Meaning he wasn't sick during all of the race, but probably just the last stage(s), and it might have build up slowly and then accelerated after that stage with bad weather. But that's only speculation. Accoding to the DS he got sick during the race, i.e. he probably wasn't 100% during all the stages.

He got ill during the race which means the virus entered his body during the race. The virus needed to multiply to cause symptoms. Which takes about 3 days. Illness is not an excuse for his ****ty performance. In Pais Vasco maybe, but not in TA. I'm sorry.
 
LaFlorecita said:
He got ill during the race which means the virus entered his body during the race. The virus needed to multiply to cause symptoms. Which takes about 3 days. Illness is not an excuse for his ****ty performance. In Pais Vasco maybe, but not in TA. I'm sorry.
You are aware that he'd won if he had/could follow(ed) Nibali on stage 6, right?
 
LaFlorecita said:
Not true. He was st with Nibali before that stage and he lost time to him in the tt
You're right I misremembered. My point was that if he was affected my illness on that stage (and therefore also in the ITT), he'd be able to do much better if he wasn't sick. Perhaps well enough to win.
 
Jan 3, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
He got ill during the race which means the virus entered his body during the race. The virus needed to multiply to cause symptoms. Which takes about 3 days. Illness is not an excuse for his ****ty performance. In Pais Vasco maybe, but not in TA. I'm sorry.

How the hell would the DS know when a virus entered his body? When the DS said hé got sick it is cos they found out hé didnt feel stellar
 
Jan 3, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
Imo you are reading way too much into it. oh well.

Imo u refuse to see the pattern. But its up to you. But I will never get you. On one hand you say "Who am I to criticize his decisions", but on the other hand you dont miss a chance to bash him when hé doesnt win
 
Jan 3, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
He is gonna flicker around when his teammates don't protect him. It works both ways.

Chicken and the egg discussion. But funny that hé does it regardless of who the teammate happens to be. Personally, I just think that way of flickering just comes natural to him by insticnt
 
Jan 10, 2012
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Cimber said:
Chicken and the egg discussion. But funny that hé does it regardless of who the teammate happens to be. Personally, I just think that way of flickering just comes natural to him by insticnt

You certainly have some valid points, Climver. The problem with guys like Contador is that they just don't get that. He is a class above the others, has a different mentality, his own style of riding and is used to take matters into his own hands (if something apparently doesn't work out) and last but not least: more often than not he will not be corrected, if he makes a mistake or should do something in a different manner...

I once read a piece by Karsten Kroon, which also points that out.

Contador is a Phenomenon (February 2012, automatic translation)

It is the sixth day of the first training camp of the team on Gran Canaria. Where the name comes from is a mystery to me, there is to see, let alone a large no canary. Our hotel is on the south west side of the island and everyone who has ever been there knows that it is not easy to ride, here it is not just meters. The hard training days starting to bite and after an hour or three we descend the Alto Qut the direction of Arguineguin. Alberto Contador smoothly in the lead, confident he slaloms down. It is the first time I'm close him on training and it is undeniable, he's a phenomenon. If you like simple mortal uphill is waiving and you ride behind him, you can not help but be jealous, he effortlessly turns the pedals around. I've been watching a good look but I can not lay my finger. Long legs, narrow ****, narrow shoulders, short arms, extremely aerodynamic, head slightly tilted, perfectly straight trailing knees, he smoothly switches gears heavy with light off.

At the end of the valley towards the sea are decreasing the time trial bikes waiting for us. Anyone know what the intention is, switch the bike, the group divided into three groups of seven and driving range. Medium is called. Bjarne used that bandied about, no one knows exactly what is meant by it but for me is always hard. Then afterwards said, "This was perfect guys, this was a medium high!" Mother****ers. We drive the 12 km long valley three times up and down, false flat uphill "medium" and then back bulbs quiet. I'm with Alberto in the group and as wily Dutchman I snuggle behind the largest and thickest of our group, Benjamin Noval. There is no question of a beautiful range, Alberto is driving too fast. Every time he comes to the head he pulls through and he continues to drive until he looks back puzzled. I'm ****ed at him once, but he really does not understand. I do not think it's up to me to correct him, so I let it go.

The last time we leave without Alberto, he started half a minute behind us. We drive well but soon he comes flying past us, he drives at least 10 km / h faster than us. In no time he was out of sight. May I have to point out that it is a climber? A guy that weighs only 63 pounds!

I've had the pleasure to ride with men like Denis Menchov, Andy Schleck and Cadel Evans, but sorry guys, this guy is a class better.
 
May 4, 2013
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Nilsson said:
You certainly have some valid points, Climver. The problem with guys like Contador is that they just don't get that. He is a class above the others, has a different mentality, his own style of riding and is used to take matters into his own hands (if something apparently doesn't work out) and last but not least: more often than not he will not be corrected, if he makes a mistake or should do something in a different manner...

I once read a piece by Karsten Kroon, which also points that out.

thanks for that piece from Karsten Kroon! Beautiful imagery.