Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Michele]

Yesterday at raisport they said that Contador is looking for a team captain; they contacted Garzelli at first as he lives in Valencia but he's almost 40 and probably retiring very soon.
They tried to contact Basso but he has a big role into the new Liquigas (the team, not sponsor) sponsorship and so they are now talking to Di Luca.
Personally I dont see Di Luca as a great choice compared to other 2.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yesterday at raisport they said that Contador is looking for a team captain; they contacted Garzelli at first as he lives in Valencia but he's almost 40 and probably retiring very soon.
They tried to contact Basso but he has a big role into the new Liquigas (the team, not sponsor) sponsorship and so they are now talking to Di Luca.
Personally I dont see Di Luca as a great choice compared to other 2.

Why are they only asking Italians?

 

[Publicus]

Dunno, I would have preferred Contador to wait when Andy dropped his chain.
Yes, the chain thing was undoubtedly caused by Andy himself (took me some time to face), but ther yellow jersey shouldn't be won that way. My grief is only about honoring the race as Andy was more than compensated with the stage win he was given afterward (and to my knowledge he didn't close much of the hole when he chased Contador, meaning he wouldn't have made much of a hole either).

Why? I've never understood this reasoning. I would agree with your sentiment if Contador was in the bunch, sees Andy have a mechanical and then attacks. That would be in poor form, but that's not what happened in that case. Andy attacked while Contador was blocked in by a few riders and due to his own error dropped his chain mid-attack. Contador was already in full flight when Andy commits his error. You think it was AC's responsibility at that point to call timeout and wait for Andy to fix his chain????

I think Ryder Hesjedal said it best "if you draw your sword and drop it, you die" (or something to that effect).

 

[pastronef]

Yesterday at raisport they said that Contador is looking for a team captain; they contacted Garzelli at first as he lives in Valencia but he's almost 40 and probably retiring very soon.
They tried to contact Basso but he has a big role into the new Liquigas (the team, not sponsor) sponsorship and so they are now talking to Di Luca.
Personally I dont see Di Luca as a great choice compared to other 2.

the Garzelli option would be very good, I really would like to see him again on a big team, riding the Giro and be a road captain in the Tour

 

[Angliru]

Dunno, I would have preferred Contador to wait when Andy dropped his chain.
Yes, the chain thing was undoubtedly caused by Andy himself (took me some time to face), but ther yellow jersey shouldn't be won that way. My grief is only about honoring the race as Andy was more than compensated with the stage win he was given afterward (and to my knowledge he didn't close much of the hole when he chased Contador, meaning he wouldn't have made much of a hole either).

Please, let's not get started on this again.

 

[OctaBech]

Why? I've never understood this reasoning. I would agree with your sentiment if Contador was in the bunch, sees Andy have a mechanical and then attacks. That would be in poor form, but that's not what happened in that case. Andy attacked while Contador was blocked in by a few riders and due to his own error dropped his chain mid-attack. Contador was already in full flight when Andy commits his error. You think it was AC's responsibility at that point to call timeout and wait for Andy to fix his chain????

I think Ryder Hesjedal said it best "if you draw your sword and drop it, you die" (or something to that effect).

The reasoning is more of philosophical nature really. It's a question about what kind of heroes we want the sport and TdF in particular to produce. The riders have often been referred to knights on wheels/iron horses who through so many hardships to create epic tales. In no other sport we get to follow our heroes this close through their ups and downs. We do not experience in other sports that the likely winner of a stage hands the win to someone else for the hard work done.
Winning because the opponent dropped his sword is neither admirable nor epic, it's just a cheap and rather dull kill.
But yes, if Hesjedal is as high as one's expectations of a hero go, then it can be hard to understand this angle.

 

[Arnout]

The reasoning is more of philosophical nature really. It's a question about what kind of heroes we want the sport and TdF in particular to produce. The riders have often been referred to knights on wheels/iron horses who through so many hardships to create epic tales. In no other sport we get to follow our heroes this close through their ups and downs. We do not experience in other sports that the likely winner of a stage hands the win to someone else for the hard work done.
Winning because the opponent dropped his sword is neither admirable nor epic, it's just a cheap and rather dull kill.
But yes, if Hesjedal is as high as one's expectations of a hero go, then it can be hard to understand this angle.

Winning because you aren't killed when making a mistake because of pity feelings of the opponents is hardly epic either, right?

 

[OctaBech]

Winning because you aren't killed when making a mistake because of pity feelings of the opponents is hardly epic either, right?

No, you clearly do not understand it.

 

[Parrulo]

The reasoning is more of philosophical nature really. It's a question about what kind of heroes we want the sport and TdF in particular to produce. The riders have often been referred to knights on wheels/iron horses who through so many hardships to create epic tales. In no other sport we get to follow our heroes this close through their ups and downs. We do not experience in other sports that the likely winner of a stage hands the win to someone else for the hard work done.
Winning because the opponent dropped his sword is neither admirable nor epic, it's just a cheap and rather dull kill.
But yes, if Hesjedal is as high as one's expectations of a hero go, then it can be hard to understand this angle.

what a bunch of philosophical BS. . .

Winning because you aren't killed when making a mistake because of pity feelings of the opponents is hardly epic either, right?

you are completely right arnout, besides it's a race not a fairy tale designed to create some sort of pseudo hero

 

[Michele]

Why are they only asking Italians?

They didnt say why but I guess it must be due to some sponsor's requests or cause they want someone for leadership roles during italian races when there isnt Contador.

 

[OctaBech]

what a bunch of philosophical BS. . .



you are completely right arnout, besides it's a race not a fairy tale designed to create some sort of pseudo hero

Such an intelligent argument, I know when I'm beaten.

And no he isn't right, as I already mentioned it's not seen as pathetic to be given a stage, you know like Contador did they day after he had been boohooed down from the scene.

 

[Machu Picchu]

They didnt say why but I guess it must be due to some sponsor's requests or cause they want someone for leadership roles during italian races when there isnt Contador.

They'll need someone for the giro d'italia next year as Contador will be focusing on the tour and this will take some pressure of him/team.

 

[Publicus]

The reasoning is more of philosophical nature really. It's a question about what kind of heroes we want the sport and TdF in particular to produce. The riders have often been referred to knights on wheels/iron horses who through so many hardships to create epic tales. In no other sport we get to follow our heroes this close through their ups and downs. We do not experience in other sports that the likely winner of a stage hands the win to someone else for the hard work done.
Winning because the opponent dropped his sword is neither admirable nor epic, it's just a cheap and rather dull kill.
But yes, if Hesjedal is as high as one's expectations of a hero go, then it can be hard to understand this angle.

I think you don't understand Hesjedal's comment. It actually dovetails precisely with the imagery you've painted above. Unfortunately for you, your overly romanticized version of warfare/combat/battle is your undoing. Would have been an interesting discussion back in 2010, but alas it is 2012 and the eve of the 2012 Tour de France. I'm bowing out of this discussion.

 

[LaFlorecita]

what a bunch of philosophical BS. . .

you are completely right arnout, besides it's a race not a fairy tale designed to create some sort of pseudo hero

Lol +10000

 

[Froome19]

Lol +10000

So you would not want any good riders in the sport.. like say Contador?
What is the difference between what Contador did not do in that case and what he did do in the Giro with Rujano and Tiralongo?

 

[hoerpi]

How do we know that Contador gave the stage away? He tried to drop Andy earlier but couldn't and then only thing AC can't do is sprint so maybe he couldn't win that day?

 

[Publicus]

So you would not want any good riders in the sport.. like say Contador?
What is the difference between what Contador did not do in that case and what he did do in the Giro with Rujano and Tiralongo?

Is this a serious question? Because . . . wow.

EDIT: I want to make sure I'm understanding the question. Are you asking about chaingate and Contador gifting a stages to Tiralongo and Rujano?

 

[LaFlorecita]

How do we know that Contador gave the stage away? He tried to drop Andy earlier but couldn't and then only thing AC can't do is sprint so maybe he couldn't win that day?

He attacked once to show Andy he should stop trying to drop him.

 

[LaFlorecita]

So you would not want any good riders in the sport.. like say Contador?
What is the difference between what Contador did not do in that case and what he did do in the Giro with Rujano and Tiralongo?

What do you mean froomie that is not Parrulo's point

 

[Froome19]

What do you mean froomie that is not Parrulo's point

Well he said that what Octatech posted was not true and I merely expanded on Octatech's general point..

 

[LaFlorecita]

Well he said that what Octatech posted was not true and I merely expanded on Octatech's general point..

And that is...?

 

[Arnout]

Such an intelligent argument, I know when I'm beaten.

And no he isn't right, as I already mentioned it's not seen as pathetic to be given a stage, you know like Contador did they day after he had been boohooed down from the scene.

That was pathetic as well. I don't like riders giving away stages for nothing. Sometimes I can understand it, when riders are friends, when they worked together etc, but I don't like it.

 

[Machu Picchu]

And that is...?

would you prefer a rider with honor and respect for others or one who wins at any cost.

We all like riders for different reasons, Octabech I guess likes the romanticism of the sport rather than just the winning or rankings of a rider.

 

[Arnout]

would you prefer a rider with honor and respect for others or one who wins at any cost.

We all like riders for different reasons, Octabech I guess likes the romanticism of the sport rather than just the winning or rankings of a rider.

I don't think it is romantic. Romantic is battling through in face of adversaries. Come to think of it, I know of no romantic cycling story involving cyclists waiting for others because they made a mistake.

I think it is a pursue of a perceived fairness rather than romantics.

 

[LaFlorecita]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...keenly-felt-during-2012-tour-de-france_226473

Fantastic article by Andrew Hood.