Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Carols]

Basso praises Contador and thinks he can win the Giro-Tour [Spanish]
http://www.dorsal51.com/?p=18469

Thanks, good article.

Nice words indeed. Hopefully he can assist Alberto in achieving the double .

He had some nice words for Vincenzo also!

 

[cineteq]

Thanks, good article.

Nice words indeed. Hopefully he can assist Alberto in achieving the double .

He had some nice words for Vincenzo also!

You're welcome. Nothing is free (re: bolded)

 

[sir fly]

Contador really needs to win the double if he wants to make 2015 season memorable.
Just the Giro victory against the expected low profile field won't be something worth of remembering.
Even the Vuelta victory will be more valuable than the sole Giro 'cause of the stronger field.
Either the Tour or the double (any double, as a matter of fact), anything less won't be enough.

 

[ILovecycling]

Contador really needs to win the double if he wants to make 2015 season memorable.
Just the Giro victory against the expected low profile field won't be something worth of remembering.
Even the Vuelta victory will be more valuable than the sole Giro 'cause of the stronger field.
Either the Tour or the double (any double, as a matter of fact), anything less won't be enough.

I completely agree.

 

[Electress]

Contador really needs to win the double if he wants to make 2015 season memorable.
Just the Giro victory against the expected low profile field won't be something worth of remembering.
Even the Vuelta victory will be more valuable than the sole Giro 'cause of the stronger field.
Either the Tour or the double (any double, as a matter of fact), anything less won't be enough.

I disagree. I can foresee many scenarios where Contador's season could be memorable, not all of them include winning the double. If he did it, brilliant. But if he wins the Giro then goes down fighting but just missing the TdF, that will be pretty damn stand-out too. If he loses the Giro then wins the TdF, that'd be pretty memorable too. If he had a disaster then came back from behind to win either GT, that would be memorable.

In fact, a less memorable option would be if he won the Giro then the TdF turned out to be a bit meh because accidents or lack of form or whatever meant that AC won it without a real fight (I know it's unlikely but let's say). That would actually be a bit of a let-down...It isn't always about the result. It is about the way you race.

 

[BlurryVII]

In fact, a less memorable option would be if he won the Giro then the TdF turned out to be a bit meh because accidents or lack of form or whatever meant that AC won it without a real fight (I know it's unlikely but let's say). That would actually be a bit of a let-down...It isn't always about the result. It is about the way you race.

So, for instance, AC dominating all the field at the Tour after the Giro without a close fight would be a bit of a let down according to you? .......


And I disagree, it's always about the result. Without the palmares, even known as a spectacular climber full of panache, AC wouldn't be what he is today.
So he has got to win the Tour, if he loses whether it be in a close fight or being out of form, all which will remain memorable is that he hasn't won the Tour for 5 years.

It's even worse if he loses in a close fight, I for one wouldn't get over it and AC wouldn't either. The win is what matters, nothing else. "2nd place is not good"
That's what people will recall in 20 years and beyond, that he has DONE the double, not that he has narrowly failed to do it.

 

[The_Juan]

You know you is one of the greats when people insinuate that only winning the Giro (regardless of the level of competition) would not be a memorable moment for you.

Alberto Contador is THAT good folks.

 

[Electress]

So, for instance, AC dominating all the field at the Tour after the Giro without a close fight would be a bit of a let down according to you? .......


And I disagree, it's always about the result. Without the palmares, even known as a spectacular climber full of panache, AC wouldn't be what he is today.
So he has got to win the Tour, if he loses whether it be in a close fight or being out of form, all which will remain memorable is that he hasn't won the Tour for 5 years.

It's even worse if he loses in a close fight, I for one wouldn't get over it and AC wouldn't either. The win is what matters, nothing else. "2nd place is not good"
That's what people will recall in 20 years and beyond, that he has DONE the double, not that he has narrowly failed to do it.

I would be delighted AC won under any circumstances, but what I said was that if he won because others were rubbish or had accidents, it would be a bit meh. And that's because I want him to beat the field and win gloriously, not just win by default. So under these circumstances, the double, however happy I'd be, would be a bit of a let-down compared to what I'd hoped. It'd be better than losing it, mind.

The winning - please don't set up a straw man, I said 'it isn't always about the result'. Of course, winning establishes your credentials; winning is memorable, but it isn't everything. 7 dull wins is just as dull as 6. They all merge into one. For example, my over-riding memory of Wiggins winning in spite of my being a Brit and it being a huge deal here is honestly how ****ing dull it was. So Wiggo is not memorable to me for winning more than the fact that I wished that someone - anyone would animate the race.

But I think we are mixing up two different things here - what is memorable to people who were there or watching and lived through it, and what is 'remembered' after those people are gone (which isn't really memory, since nobody is actually remembering anything, they are just referencing the past). Statistics become much more important in time simply because stuff like style and panache don't linger - numbers are the black and white of what's left.

That being said, the extraordinary will always stand out - look at Fignon's loss of the tdf. More memorable, I would argue, than any of his wins.

I agree, that 25 years from now, people will look at AC's results and that will define, for better or worse, a large part of what he was. But whether he wins or loses in the double, he will be remembered for giving it a shot. For people who were there, however, what they remember will be coloured by so much other stuff. The guts, the triumph and the tragedy, the style, the attack, whether it was all a bit meh.

And you seem to agree with me to some extent, since you say

It's even worse if he loses in a close fight, I for one wouldn't get over it and AC wouldn't either.

If not 'getting over it' isn't a loss being truly memorable, I don't know what is.

And we shall certainly have to agree to differ on the 'winning is all that matters'. I just don't agree at all, no matter if this is the credo you or AC live by. I wouldn't cheer for AC if he weren't the rider he is even if he had all the wins in the world. Indeed, I wouldn't like to guess just how much I appreciate AC because he is a great bike rider and competitor, versus how beautifully he rides a bike uphill.

Likewise, no matter how much he won, I always hated Lance Armstrong (I know lots of people say this because of the undiscussable, but I truly loathed the guy. I thought he was a class A **** and I didn't want him to win. Ever.)

I engage with Purito though he is a perpetual nearly man; indeed, the poor sod is all the more memorable for being such. And for all the effort of 2013 and mutant Ventoux stage, I suspect that my over-riding recollection of Froome when I'm deranged and in my dotage will be that he had the ugliest riding style in the peloton.

And why do people obsess over this 'hasn't won the Tour is X no. of years'. Crumbs, that describes virtually everyone. The Tour is not the world.

And yes, this with bells on

You know you is one of the greats when people insinuate that only winning the Giro (regardless of the level of competition) would not be a memorable moment for you.

Alberto Contador is THAT good folks.

 

[BlurryVII]

I would be delighted AC won under any circumstances, but what I said was that if he won because others were rubbish or had accidents, it would be a bit meh. And that's because I want him to beat the field and win gloriously, not just win by default. So under these circumstances, the double, however happy I'd be, would be a bit of a let-down compared to what I'd hoped. It'd be better than losing it, mind

Definetely agree.

The winning - please don't set up a straw man, I said 'it isn't always about the result'. Of course, winning establishes your credentials; winning is memorable, but it isn't everything. 7 dull wins is just as dull as 6. They all merge into one. For example, my over-riding memory of Wiggins winning in spite of my being a Brit and it being a huge deal here is honestly how ****ing dull it was. So Wiggo is not memorable to me for winning more than the fact that I wished that someone - anyone would animate the race.

I was refering to AC, in the case of Contador, it is always about the result because you already know people will remember him as that electrifying rider which makes every race a true show, he has proved that over and over again , that is already earned. The only job left is to win as much as he can before retiring.

And even if we're not talking about an exciting attacking rider, in the case of wiggins, well there's still the fact that he is the first english Tour winner and only multiple track olympic medalist who won the Tour as well. The transformation is memorable here. But winning is always the key word. Doesn't work the other way around. The most famous cyclists in the world are the most successful in their era.

And you seem to agree with me to some extent, since you say



If not 'getting over it' isn't a loss being truly memorable, I don't know what is.

No, I personally define something memorable as positive, when I say I wouldn't get over it (AC losing in a close fight), it means litterally I would not make any montage video of that Tour nor rewatch any of the stages.

I tend to forget what has happened exactly in the races he has lost in his career, while I remember in every detail the races he won (gaps - stages wins / profile - breakaway - GC situation etc ).

Everyone has his own definition of what memorable is (for those who have witnessed the event). A dramatic loss Fignon style at next year's Tour for my favourite rider will not be memorable as far as I'm concerned.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Contador really needs to win the double if he wants to make 2015 season memorable.
Just the Giro victory against the expected low profile field won't be something worth of remembering.
Even the Vuelta victory will be more valuable than the sole Giro 'cause of the stronger field.
Either the Tour or the double (any double, as a matter of fact), anything less won't be enough.

Tirreno+Catalunya+Pais Vasco+Giro would be pretty darn good.

Who cares if it's memorable. The fans, right now, will remember what he did in 20 years. Why should I care if newbie fans who haven't even been born yet know what kind of rider he was.

 

[LaFlorecita]

You know you is one of the greats when people insinuate that only winning the Giro (regardless of the level of competition) would not be a memorable moment for you.

Alberto Contador is THAT good folks.

Lol, I know right.

I Love Cycling, BlurryVII, better prepare for a failure of a season, because the chance he'll win the double is pretty damn small.

People getting greedy here.

 

[BlurryVII]

Lol, I know right.

I Love Cycling, BlurryVII, better prepare for a failure of a season, because the chance he'll win the double is pretty damn small.

People getting greedy here.

What you doing here, is lowering your expectations as much as you can for now so you don't get too disappointed Admit it, you'll hate seeing him lose the Tour against the direct rivals. And you'll end up critisizing him when he gets dropped.

It'll be an average season only winning the Giro, yeah, I know it's the Giro, but against no one. Assuming he'll should not be as good as last year early in the season.

 

[LaFlorecita]

The training camp has started

 

[Red Rick]

Winning the Giro is a pretty big deal, he'd be the first time to win all GT's 3 times (while not actually having them on his palmares). As it stands now, in 20 years he'll be the guy that stands out from this period in Grand Tour racing. Boonen and Canc will be remembered for their dominance on the cobbles, Cav will be remembered for his winning 20 stages in 4 years in the Tour.

Froome isn't gonna topple him, Nibali has yet to dominate the best but he might become second only to Contador in this period. Quintana remains to be seen, I see him winning all GT's, but I don't see him dominating everyone

 

[LaFlorecita]

Winning the Giro is a pretty big deal, he'd be the first time to win all GT's 3 times (while not actually having them on his palmares). As it stands now, in 20 years he'll be the guy that stands out from this period in Grand Tour racing. Boonen and Canc will be remembered for their dominance on the cobbles, Cav will be remembered for his winning 20 stages in 4 years in the Tour.

Froome isn't gonna topple him, Nibali has yet to dominate the best but he might become second only to Contador in this period. Quintana remains to be seen, I see him winning all GT's, but I don't see him dominating everyone

Yes, good post

 

[Kwibus]

I would be delighted AC won under any circumstances, but what I said was that if he won because others were rubbish or had accidents, it would be a bit meh. And that's because I want him to beat the field and win gloriously, not just win by default. So under these circumstances, the double, however happy I'd be, would be a bit of a let-down compared to what I'd hoped. It'd be better than losing it, mind.

The winning - please don't set up a straw man, I said 'it isn't always about the result'. Of course, winning establishes your credentials; winning is memorable, but it isn't everything. 7 dull wins is just as dull as 6. They all merge into one. For example, my over-riding memory of Wiggins winning in spite of my being a Brit and it being a huge deal here is honestly how ****ing dull it was. So Wiggo is not memorable to me for winning more than the fact that I wished that someone - anyone would animate the race.

But I think we are mixing up two different things here - what is memorable to people who were there or watching and lived through it, and what is 'remembered' after those people are gone (which isn't really memory, since nobody is actually remembering anything, they are just referencing the past). Statistics become much more important in time simply because stuff like style and panache don't linger - numbers are the black and white of what's left.

That being said, the extraordinary will always stand out - look at Fignon's loss of the tdf. More memorable, I would argue, than any of his wins.

I agree, that 25 years from now, people will look at AC's results and that will define, for better or worse, a large part of what he was. But whether he wins or loses in the double, he will be remembered for giving it a shot. For people who were there, however, what they remember will be coloured by so much other stuff. The guts, the triumph and the tragedy, the style, the attack, whether it was all a bit meh.

And you seem to agree with me to some extent, since you say



If not 'getting over it' isn't a loss being truly memorable, I don't know what is.

And we shall certainly have to agree to differ on the 'winning is all that matters'. I just don't agree at all, no matter if this is the credo you or AC live by. I wouldn't cheer for AC if he weren't the rider he is even if he had all the wins in the world. Indeed, I wouldn't like to guess just how much I appreciate AC because he is a great bike rider and competitor, versus how beautifully he rides a bike uphill.

Likewise, no matter how much he won, I always hated Lance Armstrong (I know lots of people say this because of the undiscussable, but I truly loathed the guy. I thought he was a class A **** and I didn't want him to win. Ever.)

I engage with Purito though he is a perpetual nearly man; indeed, the poor sod is all the more memorable for being such. And for all the effort of 2013 and mutant Ventoux stage, I suspect that my over-riding recollection of Froome when I'm deranged and in my dotage will be that he had the ugliest riding style in the peloton.

And why do people obsess over this 'hasn't won the Tour is X no. of years'. Crumbs, that describes virtually everyone. The Tour is not the world.

And yes, this with bells on

What a splendid post. I have the same emotions with cycling as you have.
Allthough when Contador started dominating I didn't really like him, but when he started showing how much willpower he had when he wasn't dominating I became a fan.

Oh and Purito.. oh man I so wish him to win L-B-L or a GT before the end of his career, but I allready know he most likely never win one. I guess I love the guy for that.

 

[Carols]

You know you is one of the greats when people insinuate that only winning the Giro (regardless of the level of competition) would not be a memorable moment for you.

Alberto Contador is THAT good folks.

Spoken For Truth!

 

[Jspear]

The training camp has started

I actually think I could stay up with them on that training session.

 

[Electress]

I actually think I could stay up with them on that training session.

Spat my coffee on the computer! That photo does suggest having a cappuccino is a tougher training.

Oh and Purito.. oh man I so wish him to win L-B-L or a GT before the end of his career, but I allready know he most likely never win one. I guess I love the guy for that.

Me too. It's almost enough that I might be torn, say next year, if he was leading AC in the Vuelta….It was horrible hearing that interview at the Vuelta where he said 'I wish I were a better bike rider' - very sanguine and unemotional but I could have hugged him. 2012 was such rough luck - I'd have loved him to win the Giro.

And Blurry, I agree that Wiggo's win was memorable for all the reasons you say and that it was the transformation…that's the legacy stuff. But the personal thing also remain. But as you say, we all have our own definitions.

Having said that, the only ski jumper I remember at all is the biggest failure ever…Eddie 'the Eagle'. So I still think that winning isn't always important….

I was refering to AC, in the case of Contador, it is always about the result because you already know people will remember him as that electrifying rider which makes every race a true show, he has proved that over and over again , that is already earned. The only job left is to win as much as he can before retiring.

Can't agree with you on this though. I want AC to rack up as many wins as humanly possible, I really do. But to some extent, they are a bit 'academic'. I would prefer Contador to win the double and nothing else than, say, win a Tour and two Vueltas in the next three years. I would, of course, be ecstatic if he got the triple. (frankly. I might name my first born after him if that happened…). After you've ratcheted up as many GT's as he's already got, winning yet another one doesn't add anything like adding a double, or winning by the kind of show he put on a Fuente De or in T-A this year. Yes, I want him to win, but I'd like him to win above all in a manner which raises even 'yet another GT' above the ones he's already got.

I never understood why Froome's aspiration was to win 7 Tours…surely you'd want to set yourself a new challenge, just for the variety and to see if you could win the Giro or whatever?

 

[pigoonse]

Contador really needs to win the double if he wants to make 2015 season memorable.
Just the Giro victory against the expected low profile field won't be something worth of remembering.
Even the Vuelta victory will be more valuable than the sole Giro 'cause of the stronger field.
Either the Tour or the double (any double, as a matter of fact), anything less won't be enough.

only thing i thought after reading this post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs
!!!

 

[Electress]

only thing i thought after reading this post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs
!!!

class post!

 

[LaFlorecita]

http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/?page=news&cod=74434&tp=n

 

[Publicus]

http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/?page=news&cod=74434&tp=n

An awesome article (though I had to read a google translated version)! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Eshnar]

An awesome article (though I had to read a google translated version)! Thanks for sharing.

The journo writes some damn good bull**** there... like listing Indurain between the gc guys who never cared about other races but the tdf, or like hinting that the 60 km ITT will not favour AC... And then AC nails it stating that in the tdf the uphill sprints of Huy and Bretagne could make more gaps than the big mountains and that the 2011 Giro was maybe one of the hardest routes in history (clear example of a professional who knows **** about his own sport).

Rest assured, he also said reasonable and nice things.

EDIT: Oh, and apparently the Giro wasn't televised in Spain in the 90's. Is that true? Really? Hard to believe, with Indurain in contention...

 

[Netserk]

Tbf we saw bigger gaps between Evans and Andy on both of the hill sprints in 2011 than we saw in the pyrenees

Similar the year before between Andy and Contador.