Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[ray j willings]

Its possible Bertie could have let the time gaps happen deliberately.
His priority is to win the Giro and Tour. He his certainly not going to let on if he his in awesome form and there certainly was no need for Bertie to be at his best to win the Giro. Win as easy as possible using the least amount of energy. Maybe that is what he did. He has to respect Aru and Landa , he can't say it was to easy even if it was.It would not surprise me at all.
If Froome or Quintana etc try something early and Bertie follows easy or passes them then it's game over. He will have a huge mental advantage.

 

[Jelantik]

Well this is a new one. Millar thinks Alberto lost 2:30+ intentionally? Granted the gap did go out at the end, but the man has looked pretty spent ever since that stage.

It would have been fatal for Contador if he was in a bad way. I think he bluffed a bit, let Astana and Nibali think he's more vulnerable than he really is. Tour de France mind games start way before the prologue and that, with a temporary moment of difficulty, is what we might have seen on stage 20.

Actually I'd like this to be the case as it means he saved more energy than he let on. But I'm finding it hard to believe.

BTW I like Millar's take on 2011 Giro.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/robert-millar-contador-won-the-2011-giro-ditalia

I like reading Millar's articles usually, but this is ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure he's right about the gravel having an effect but the rest is pretty off base in my opinion (lets just ignore the discussion of 2011)

the gravel is a good argument. But bluffing? I don't know about that. Even Riis jedi mind trick would not even go that far. That means he'd better be pretty confident and absolutely sure that his bluffing won't backed fired or it means that Contador hold a monstrous form than what he has shown? As much as I would like to believe it, it's a little too far fetch for me. Contador himself said that he had to spend energy more than what he would have liked (on the other hand, he's known also to downplay everything). So time will only tell, which Contador shows up at the Tour. But I do think that Contador finished the Giro, more tired that he had expected.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Bit of a tactic question but... I think Astana rode the whole Giro so freaking hard just to tire out Contador for the Tour mainly, so Nibali has an easier time. Yes ofcourse they also wanted Aru (and Landa) to do well, but... in the back of their minds ,even when the Giro seemed lost they kept riding. It's the only reason it makes sense. To tire Alberto...

Yep, exactly my thought before the Giro, I think they played it great with that 'fighting' FTW .....Also glad you are back DT.

 

[ninjadriver]

Re: Re:

Well, it was clear since Aprica that Landa is better climber, not just in stage 20 that's first.
I agree with your 2nd point. Contador did cover most of the moves, not the ones that counted though. He didn't crack completely but loosing 2:30 on a single stage does not look good and just shows what kind of damage Landa could do if he was let off the leash (and it is not just based of off one stage, this is alo based off of Aprica in which he put over 30 seconds on 3km of false flat, and every other stage in which Landa looked like on a sunday ride with other riders clearly in pain). And yeah, most of the cyclists (including Contador) and full of **** when they make excuses for their performance.

He did get dropped like a stone though. Went pedaling backwards after Landa attack and lost more time with every km that Landa pulled even if it was on a flat. Again, no need to try putting a lipstick on a pig.
Please quote me saying that 'it is going to be a sad sight'. I said 'it would be'. Major difference there.
What performance would you consider embarassing? Outside of top 3, top 5, top 10?

Its pretty clear by now from your comments your either pretty salty or just not very smart Dropped blablabla, Contador have had a plan for 1 year now, herepeatedly said he needed to use as little as energi as possible does it then in your mind make sense to win the giro with 5min? or 8min for that matter? NO it doesnt, he and steven de jongh said it perfectly after the stage your talking about which doesnt matter cause anyone who have a little clue perfectly well knewed what was going on. HE PACED himself cause 100% controlled perfectly without spending more energi than he woulda liked trying to follow which made 0 sense for him too do. If however you still like to think elsewice on that particular stage thats fine too cause he won the giro BOM case closed. Add the fact he didnt have a team (in the mountains) and that he lost 40sec on the crash+his shoulder noone in their mind would question he was nr uno but if your that naive and think contador dont have a plan going into the giro-double you are a fool.

Its just so funny to see naive people like you who fail to see the obvious, if you was contador would it make sense to go all in when the giro was in the bag to win by 10min when thats just half of your goal knowing the tour is comming up? Based on your comments you do !! Its easy Contador came here to win the giro spending as little energi as possible so dont come yelling when he gets dropped when the victory is in the bag when it makes no sense what so ever to follow, i know logic is hard

On another note if you look close on his program this year and de jongh even admited it the entire plan is for him to be at his strongest at the tour not the other way around like the last time he tried the double(which wasnt planned btw)

I have to disagree respectfully with you, Mamba. Contador could not go with Landa at any point on stages 18 and 20, if I have my stages correct. Astana called Landa back a couple of times to shepherd Aru up; why, I have no idea, other than Aru being Italian.

Contador was not trying to pace himself when Landa launched his attacks, or even when Aru launched his against Contador. Alberto did to a great job, once he was dropped, of pacing himself - he is the best Grand Tour rider I've ever seen, dating back to 1999.

Regarding the TDF, I give Contador zero shot - he should skip the TDF, the faster speeds, the superior field (Froome, Quintana, Nibali) and win the Vuelta, adding to his Grand Tour total (that would be 10, or 8, depending).

 

[ferryman]

Re: Re:

Well, it was clear since Aprica that Landa is better climber, not just in stage 20 that's first.
I agree with your 2nd point. Contador did cover most of the moves, not the ones that counted though. He didn't crack completely but loosing 2:30 on a single stage does not look good and just shows what kind of damage Landa could do if he was let off the leash (and it is not just based of off one stage, this is alo based off of Aprica in which he put over 30 seconds on 3km of false flat, and every other stage in which Landa looked like on a sunday ride with other riders clearly in pain). And yeah, most of the cyclists (including Contador) and full of **** when they make excuses for their performance.

He did get dropped like a stone though. Went pedaling backwards after Landa attack and lost more time with every km that Landa pulled even if it was on a flat. Again, no need to try putting a lipstick on a pig.
Please quote me saying that 'it is going to be a sad sight'. I said 'it would be'. Major difference there.
What performance would you consider embarassing? Outside of top 3, top 5, top 10?

Its pretty clear by now from your comments your either pretty salty or just not very smart Dropped blablabla, Contador have had a plan for 1 year now, herepeatedly said he needed to use as little as energi as possible does it then in your mind make sense to win the giro with 5min? or 8min for that matter? NO it doesnt, he and steven de jongh said it perfectly after the stage your talking about which doesnt matter cause anyone who have a little clue perfectly well knewed what was going on. HE PACED himself cause 100% controlled perfectly without spending more energi than he woulda liked trying to follow which made 0 sense for him too do. If however you still like to think elsewice on that particular stage thats fine too cause he won the giro BOM case closed. Add the fact he didnt have a team (in the mountains) and that he lost 40sec on the crash+his shoulder noone in their mind would question he was nr uno but if your that naive and think contador dont have a plan going into the giro-double you are a fool.

Its just so funny to see naive people like you who fail to see the obvious, if you was contador would it make sense to go all in when the giro was in the bag to win by 10min when thats just half of your goal knowing the tour is comming up? Based on your comments you do !! Its easy Contador came here to win the giro spending as little energi as possible so dont come yelling when he gets dropped when the victory is in the bag when it makes no sense what so ever to follow, i know logic is hard

On another note if you look close on his program this year and de jongh even admited it the entire plan is for him to be at his strongest at the tour not the other way around like the last time he tried the double(which wasnt planned btw)

I have to disagree respectfully with you, Mamba. Contador could not go with Landa at any point on stages 18 and 20, if I have my stages correct. Astana called Landa back a couple of times to shepherd Aru up; why, I have no idea, other than Aru being Italian.

Contador was not trying to pace himself when Landa launched his attacks, or even when Aru launched his against Contador. Alberto did to a great job, once he was dropped, of pacing himself - he is the best Grand Tour rider I've ever seen, dating back to 1999.

Regarding the TDF, I give Contador zero shot - he should skip the TDF, the faster speeds, the superior field (Froome, Quintana, Nibali) and win the Vuelta, adding to his Grand Tour total (that would be 10, or 8, depending).

Your second post and your second doping reference. To give you the benefit, no doping talk in in the PRR forum. You have not added anything nobody doesn't know about the number of GT wins.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Well, it was clear since Aprica that Landa is better climber, not just in stage 20 that's first.
I agree with your 2nd point. Contador did cover most of the moves, not the ones that counted though. He didn't crack completely but loosing 2:30 on a single stage does not look good and just shows what kind of damage Landa could do if he was let off the leash (and it is not just based of off one stage, this is alo based off of Aprica in which he put over 30 seconds on 3km of false flat, and every other stage in which Landa looked like on a sunday ride with other riders clearly in pain). And yeah, most of the cyclists (including Contador) and full of **** when they make excuses for their performance.

He did get dropped like a stone though. Went pedaling backwards after Landa attack and lost more time with every km that Landa pulled even if it was on a flat. Again, no need to try putting a lipstick on a pig.
Please quote me saying that 'it is going to be a sad sight'. I said 'it would be'. Major difference there.
What performance would you consider embarassing? Outside of top 3, top 5, top 10?

Its pretty clear by now from your comments your either pretty salty or just not very smart Dropped blablabla, Contador have had a plan for 1 year now, herepeatedly said he needed to use as little as energi as possible does it then in your mind make sense to win the giro with 5min? or 8min for that matter? NO it doesnt, he and steven de jongh said it perfectly after the stage your talking about which doesnt matter cause anyone who have a little clue perfectly well knewed what was going on. HE PACED himself cause 100% controlled perfectly without spending more energi than he woulda liked trying to follow which made 0 sense for him too do. If however you still like to think elsewice on that particular stage thats fine too cause he won the giro BOM case closed. Add the fact he didnt have a team (in the mountains) and that he lost 40sec on the crash+his shoulder noone in their mind would question he was nr uno but if your that naive and think contador dont have a plan going into the giro-double you are a fool.

Its just so funny to see naive people like you who fail to see the obvious, if you was contador would it make sense to go all in when the giro was in the bag to win by 10min when thats just half of your goal knowing the tour is comming up? Based on your comments you do !! Its easy Contador came here to win the giro spending as little energi as possible so dont come yelling when he gets dropped when the victory is in the bag when it makes no sense what so ever to follow, i know logic is hard

On another note if you look close on his program this year and de jongh even admited it the entire plan is for him to be at his strongest at the tour not the other way around like the last time he tried the double(which wasnt planned btw)

I have to disagree respectfully with you, Mamba. Contador could not go with Landa at any point on stages 18 and 20, if I have my stages correct. Astana called Landa back a couple of times to shepherd Aru up; why, I have no idea, other than Aru being Italian.

Contador was not trying to pace himself when Landa launched his attacks, or even when Aru launched his against Contador. Alberto did to a great job, once he was dropped, of pacing himself - he is the best Grand Tour rider I've ever seen, dating back to 1999.

Regarding the TDF, I give Contador zero shot - he should skip the TDF, the faster speeds, the superior field (Froome, Quintana, Nibali) and win the Vuelta, adding to his Grand Tour total (that would be 10, or 8, depending).

In a GT luck is a very important issue, you cant be the stronger, but of the strongers crash, puncture in a bad moment, got an illness, etc...contador has a strong team and enugh talent and experience even to win the Tour, aor at to be on the podium and to say that he is the best of this year in GC.

But I think he is not amaong the 3 stronger riders of the race, maybe not into the 5, but he could show some strenght some stages and look strong.

for me is not a question to ride the Giro, contador has that capacity tio recover, that is not a problem, he can be with thebest some days, but he can lose time in other stage as he this when andy w9on in Galibier, and that is not for the Giro, that is becouse he is not so strong as others for 3 weaks.

Landa is a very strong climber, O know him well, and he was better on the climbs this Giro, but Quintana is more, and I am sure that althoug froome is not so big climber as Quintana, in a race as the Tour he is going to climb with him.

I wouldnt be surpised if Contador doesnt finish this Tour, and in the case he finished, with 5 riders stronger than him.

The only rider will race with the same effort in the Giro is Rigo, that is true, but if he is close to Contador in the Tiur, the excuse of the Giro is not suitable.

 

[Carols]

Well folks are divided, some think he soft pedaled to save a bit of energy intentionally, like Millar. Others that he was just limiting losses as best he could without hitting red. I'm in camp 2. He was worn out with the ceaseless attacks he had to cover alone for days, couldn't cover one more, had a moment of crisis but managed it well, recovering enough to continue without jeopardizing his win. IMO Alberto would Never show that kind of weakness unless it was real. It's just Not his style!

And yes I believe Astana had a Tour agenda also, as it became evident they wouldn't win but they just kept hammering, day after day after day. But heck that is what they get paid for!

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re:

Well folks are divided, some think he soft pedaled to save a bit of energy intentionally, like Millar. Others that he was just limiting losses as best he could without hitting red. I'm in camp 2. He was worn out with the ceaseless attacks he had to cover alone for days, couldn't cover one more, had a moment of crisis but managed it well, recovering enough to continue without jeopardizing his win. IMO Alberto would Never show that kind of weakness unless it was real. It's just Not his style!

And yes I believe Astana had a Tour agenda also, as it became evident they wouldn't win but they just kept hammering, day after day after day. But heck that is what they get paid for!

Contador's entire body language is different when he is in trouble. See tdf 2013 when Froome went full ***.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Well, it was clear since Aprica that Landa is better climber, not just in stage 20 that's first.
I agree with your 2nd point. Contador did cover most of the moves, not the ones that counted though. He didn't crack completely but loosing 2:30 on a single stage does not look good and just shows what kind of damage Landa could do if he was let off the leash (and it is not just based of off one stage, this is alo based off of Aprica in which he put over 30 seconds on 3km of false flat, and every other stage in which Landa looked like on a sunday ride with other riders clearly in pain). And yeah, most of the cyclists (including Contador) and full of **** when they make excuses for their performance.

He did get dropped like a stone though. Went pedaling backwards after Landa attack and lost more time with every km that Landa pulled even if it was on a flat. Again, no need to try putting a lipstick on a pig.
Please quote me saying that 'it is going to be a sad sight'. I said 'it would be'. Major difference there.
What performance would you consider embarassing? Outside of top 3, top 5, top 10?

Its pretty clear by now from your comments your either pretty salty or just not very smart Dropped blablabla, Contador have had a plan for 1 year now, herepeatedly said he needed to use as little as energi as possible does it then in your mind make sense to win the giro with 5min? or 8min for that matter? NO it doesnt, he and steven de jongh said it perfectly after the stage your talking about which doesnt matter cause anyone who have a little clue perfectly well knewed what was going on. HE PACED himself cause 100% controlled perfectly without spending more energi than he woulda liked trying to follow which made 0 sense for him too do. If however you still like to think elsewice on that particular stage thats fine too cause he won the giro BOM case closed. Add the fact he didnt have a team (in the mountains) and that he lost 40sec on the crash+his shoulder noone in their mind would question he was nr uno but if your that naive and think contador dont have a plan going into the giro-double you are a fool.

Its just so funny to see naive people like you who fail to see the obvious, if you was contador would it make sense to go all in when the giro was in the bag to win by 10min when thats just half of your goal knowing the tour is comming up? Based on your comments you do !! Its easy Contador came here to win the giro spending as little energi as possible so dont come yelling when he gets dropped when the victory is in the bag when it makes no sense what so ever to follow, i know logic is hard

On another note if you look close on his program this year and de jongh even admited it the entire plan is for him to be at his strongest at the tour not the other way around like the last time he tried the double(which wasnt planned btw)

I have to disagree respectfully with you, Mamba. Contador could not go with Landa at any point on stages 18 and 20, if I have my stages correct. Astana called Landa back a couple of times to shepherd Aru up; why, I have no idea, other than Aru being Italian.

Contador was not trying to pace himself when Landa launched his attacks, or even when Aru launched his against Contador. Alberto did to a great job, once he was dropped, of pacing himself - he is the best Grand Tour rider I've ever seen, dating back to 1999.

Regarding the TDF, I give Contador zero shot - he should skip the TDF, the faster speeds, the superior field (Froome, Quintana, Nibali) and win the Vuelta, adding to his Grand Tour total (that would be 10, or 8, depending).

In a GT luck is a very important issue, you cant be the stronger, but of the strongers crash, puncture in a bad moment, got an illness, etc...contador has a strong team and enugh talent and experience even to win the Tour, aor at to be on the podium and to say that he is the best of this year in GC.

But I think he is not amaong the 3 stronger riders of the race, maybe not into the 5, but he could show some strenght some stages and look strong.

for me is not a question to ride the Giro, contador has that capacity tio recover, that is not a problem, he can be with thebest some days, but he can lose time in other stage as he this when andy w9on in Galibier, and that is not for the Giro, that is becouse he is not so strong as others for 3 weaks.

Landa is a very strong climber, O know him well, and he was better on the climbs this Giro, but Quintana is more, and I am sure that althoug froome is not so big climber as Quintana, in a race as the Tour he is going to climb with him.

I wouldnt be surpised if Contador doesnt finish this Tour, and in the case he finished, with 5 riders stronger than him.

The only rider will race with the same effort in the Giro is Rigo, that is true, but if he is close to Contador in the Tiur, the excuse of the Giro is not suitable.

What a pile of ***, there's so much to say, I'll just skip that because this post is a *** joke.

Do you even realise that Contador is the best GC rider, and best climber at his peak? What the *** are you talking about? If he doesn't finish on the podium in the Tour, that's entirely because the Giro screwed him over, not because he is not as strong as the others over 3 weeks. Keep dreaming.

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

Well, it was clear since Aprica that Landa is better climber, not just in stage 20 that's first.
I agree with your 2nd point. Contador did cover most of the moves, not the ones that counted though. He didn't crack completely but loosing 2:30 on a single stage does not look good and just shows what kind of damage Landa could do if he was let off the leash (and it is not just based of off one stage, this is alo based off of Aprica in which he put over 30 seconds on 3km of false flat, and every other stage in which Landa looked like on a sunday ride with other riders clearly in pain). And yeah, most of the cyclists (including Contador) and full of **** when they make excuses for their performance.

He did get dropped like a stone though. Went pedaling backwards after Landa attack and lost more time with every km that Landa pulled even if it was on a flat. Again, no need to try putting a lipstick on a pig.
Please quote me saying that 'it is going to be a sad sight'. I said 'it would be'. Major difference there.
What performance would you consider embarassing? Outside of top 3, top 5, top 10?

Its pretty clear by now from your comments your either pretty salty or just not very smart Dropped blablabla, Contador have had a plan for 1 year now, herepeatedly said he needed to use as little as energi as possible does it then in your mind make sense to win the giro with 5min? or 8min for that matter? NO it doesnt, he and steven de jongh said it perfectly after the stage your talking about which doesnt matter cause anyone who have a little clue perfectly well knewed what was going on. HE PACED himself cause 100% controlled perfectly without spending more energi than he woulda liked trying to follow which made 0 sense for him too do. If however you still like to think elsewice on that particular stage thats fine too cause he won the giro BOM case closed. Add the fact he didnt have a team (in the mountains) and that he lost 40sec on the crash+his shoulder noone in their mind would question he was nr uno but if your that naive and think contador dont have a plan going into the giro-double you are a fool.

Its just so funny to see naive people like you who fail to see the obvious, if you was contador would it make sense to go all in when the giro was in the bag to win by 10min when thats just half of your goal knowing the tour is comming up? Based on your comments you do !! Its easy Contador came here to win the giro spending as little energi as possible so dont come yelling when he gets dropped when the victory is in the bag when it makes no sense what so ever to follow, i know logic is hard

On another note if you look close on his program this year and de jongh even admited it the entire plan is for him to be at his strongest at the tour not the other way around like the last time he tried the double(which wasnt planned btw)

I have to disagree respectfully with you, Mamba. Contador could not go with Landa at any point on stages 18 and 20, if I have my stages correct. Astana called Landa back a couple of times to shepherd Aru up; why, I have no idea, other than Aru being Italian.

Contador was not trying to pace himself when Landa launched his attacks, or even when Aru launched his against Contador. Alberto did to a great job, once he was dropped, of pacing himself - he is the best Grand Tour rider I've ever seen, dating back to 1999.

Regarding the TDF, I give Contador zero shot - he should skip the TDF, the faster speeds, the superior field (Froome, Quintana, Nibali) and win the Vuelta, adding to his Grand Tour total (that would be 10, or 8, depending).

Come on now, Armstrong was unbeatable in the GTs he targeted until retirement. And then even after a comeback he did amazing for such an old age and after such a long break. Winning 7 in a row in the race with best competition (Tour) and all fairly comfortably makes him the most dominant and best GT rider by far.

 

[Angliru]

Are you forgetting the protected and exclusive advantages that he and his team had over the course of his reign?

 

[Wallace]

Re: Re:

Come on now, Armstrong was unbeatable in the GTs he targeted until retirement. And then even after a comeback he did amazing for such an old age and after such a long break. Winning 7 in a row in the race with best competition (Tour) and all fairly comfortably makes him the most dominant and best GT rider by far.

You do realize that once you go down this particular rabbit-hole, there's no getting out, don't you?

 

[Wallace]

Re: Re:

Are you forgetting the protected and exclusive advantages that he and his team had over the course of his reign?

You do realize you are writing in a thread of a convicted doper, right?
If we include those people in cycling with such history then it is kind of natural to be able to compare them.
You can't just choose which rider banned for doping you can talk about and which you can't

The only reason I'll even enter this discussion before the mods come in and close it down is because I'm sitting here with a fridge full of champagne and vodka with a big mound of coke on the table and waiting for the hookers to arrive, so I've got some time to kill.

You can't talk about Armstrong without talking about doping and given his pre-cancer Tour results you can't argue that he was a natural GT racer, so you have to fall back on the old "level playing field" nonsense which anyone who actually followed the sport knows was absolutely not the case and so--wait: that's the doorbell ringing. Gotta go, but hey, have a great discussion, ok?

 

[cellardoor]

Much as I'd like to believe Contador was saving energy on the Finistre, it doesn't really make sense. He used far more energy having to ride solo on the flat and relatively gentle include to Sestriere than he saved by going slowly for the last couple of K of the Finistre. I could be sold on this argument if he had just let Landa go and stayed with the Aru group. What does seem plausible is that he chose not to hammer it on the decent and from there on in was riding at a pace to keep his time loss in check.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Are you forgetting the protected and exclusive advantages that he and his team had over the course of his reign?

You do realize you are writing in a thread of a convicted doper, right?
If we include those people in cycling with such history then it is kind of natural to be able to compare them.
You can't just choose which rider banned for doping you can talk about and which you can't

Contador was never banned for doping.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Do you even realise that Contador is the best GC rider, and best climber at his peak? What the **** are you talking about? If he doesn't finish on the podium in the Tour, that's entirely because the Giro screwed him over, not because he is not as strong as the others over 3 weeks. Keep dreaming.

you do realise that it is only an opinion that he is the best climber?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Oh gosh!!!! What happened in here tonight?!

 

[Dedelou]

Re:

Oh gosh!!!! What happened in here tonight?!

A certain article by Millar on CN implying something that many who have followed great champions with a season long plan for multiples victories can easily believe got a few fanatic posters off their hinges and go wild with all kind of crazy claim on Contador's status.
Poor losers always have to go wild to justify the losses

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

If it makes you feel better to say that Landa (in particular) is a better climber, then go ahead. I would be foolish to argue the point. What do I care? Contador won the race. He has won 8 others (on the road), don't you think there is something correlative about him in particular other than his climbing that accounts for that? Or is it always just circumstance?

Seeing how Landa also did a lot of domestique duties and was kept on a rather tight leash, it's indeed quite logical to state that he was the best climber in this race (although I have a hard time believing he did it clean). You may not care about this, but several others here and elsewhere seemed to take offense to that, going as far as accusing people of trolling - trolling, just because someone doesn't agree with their position. I'm finding that all quite obnoxious and arrogant, and it spoils any serious discussion. If this was contained to this thread, that'd be OK, but it's also in the race threads and people are quite aggressive.

To be clear, I don't have any real race favourites, and I actually dislike Astana because I find them dodgy and I don't think people like Vinokourov should be involved in cycling. I look at races to enjoy the racing, and I don't particularly care who wins as long as he displays some kind of panache and I can more or less trust the result. So I don't really understand why people can be so 'into' one rider in particular - but I'm OK with it. What I'm not OK with is attacking other people for having a different view, or constantly shifting explanations post-date just so the story continuous to confirm the riders superiority. For example, the view 2 days ago (after the Cervinia stage) that Contador was such a boss for destroying Landa mentally, and that he could've attacked whenever he wanted. It's annoying to read such things in different forms every day also in the race thread AND at the same time see people being called trolls for stating another opinion (like Taxus, when he said yesterday that Contador in the current form would not be up to Froome and Quintana, and possibly Nibali and Pinot). "Don't feed the trolls" etc. Yeah.

I"ll answer too since it concerns me also.

Here's the deal:

1. The reason (some) AC-fans got furious by this was of course the early established narrative that Landa was in the race the better climber, and that climbing was all-important, before we actually knew this with certainty. Of course, given that they were all skybots it was necessary to quickly adopt Landa and conviently "forget" the embarrasing time trial from both Landa and Porte, and in systematic order of reducing the importance in Albertos victory, establish this point about climbing. Thats why we've seen the likes of Sam shifting stances from both pointing out the overriding importance of winning the Tour to the points about climbing rubbed in our face with clinical precision after each stage. When AC attacked in Cervinia the adopt attitude was faking that he'd cared and was "worried" it could jeopardise the Tour, at Mortirolo it was necessary to slam in AC-fans faces that Landa as the better climber could have done more, with the sole purpose of winding up fans. Now, the ring-leader tells its "a joke" and cries about "AC-fans". Of course, it gets heated sometimes, we are fans after all. What is definitively pathetic is houlier than thou-figures or self proclaimed voices of reason who takes a pleasure in winding up fans and then cries about the result.


2. As i was very active with that whole "destroy-Landa-mentally" thing. Whats strange with that? Its not like stating to the press saying "Alberto creates chaos in Astana" and "starts a war between me and Fabio" because of his shifted focus from Fabio to Mikel, directed who gets on the second step or who dont, is a normal thing to say to the press. Besides, we wouldnt even have this discussion if it was not for yesterday. Of course this statement could be wrong but again instead of confront me/us with that people take offense and goes crybabies "ohh, look how disrespectful THEY are". I see a lot of sneaky comments from the ton of sockpuppets which i dont care about but i suppose they are not a problem.

1. So in summary what you are saying is that even though other posters were correct with Landa being a better climber and they had the sense to actually notice it before AC fans admitted it? And thats why you got furious? And all of that while demeaning another rider who got injured during the race and had to withdraw?
2. Well, you were clearly wrong about destroying Landa mentally and others who pointed that out before got called trolls. So basically again, for pointing out the facts that do not play with your little 'Contador is god' narrative other users get ignored and called trolls even though they are correct. All while naming those users who clearly know more about cycling then you or are more open-minded to actually notice the dynamics of the race and call you out when writing such nonsense (Contador resting, he let them go, didn't want to win a stage anyway, could have followed if he wanted, etc.) as crybabies and sockpuppets.

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

The Giro is over so i can finally deal with this crap. At which point its crystal clear what you guys are trying to achieve.

1. Your "summary" is of course embarrasing wrong (embarrasing for you that is). First of all, yes they were right and i admitted Landa as the best climber after Sestriere, but that is of course easy to say in hindsight. If you check my earlier posts you would see i was in favour of the idea of letting Landa of the leash because he was at the point clearly stronger then at least Aru, and looked pretty even with Alberto. The discussion with Landa as the "better climber" begun as early as Madonna though and i called out on the *** because it was a narrative created by trolls (for trolls) in order to bait rather then having a serious discussion. The question is now why the *** you are acting houlier than thou without even knowing the proper timeline? Your agenda is crystal clear.
Yes. Of course wont Porte be spared. After all, it was you guys who dragged in him in this thread about Contador promising how he would destroy everything and everyone. If you dont like the rules - avoid the game.

2. Regarding Landa it was a statement, based on how i saw it looked from the outside. You know, people can have opinions and discuss things, but instead the response was a lot of whining and moaning from butthurt people complaining about Alberto "fanboys" in general. Please, tell me, where is the rules around here that you have to be 100% right before making a statement? Are you serious? And these people knows of course not more then i do given that i've been basically right this entire Giro (remember who was all over Contador during the dislocated shoulder-episode?). But i am pleased that you people get it right sometimes. Funny enough, i dont see either you nor them claiming responsibility for the crap that was puked out during the shoulder accident. No problems with that ey?

3. I couldnt care less what you think, and you are hardly in a position to judge who is serious or not, i am here to enjoy cycling and what probably was Albertos last Giro. An experience you guys clearly tried to ruin for people around here. Now its the third or forth time you've used this thread as a dumpster place for discussing doping and Clinic-related matters, both with innuendos and open statements, therefore revealing the agenda i pointed out in the first place. And you seriously wonders why there are people going harsh on you?

 

[blackmamba]

haha ofc damian13ster had to write that. It only comfirmed what I already knew from what he wrote earlier about his thoughts on contador. lance armstrong most dominant GT rider HAHAHA!!!! heck even my grandma would finish top 10 in tdf with all the substance he was on...get out of here man you have no idea lol

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

haha ofc damian13ster had to write that. It only comfirmed what I already knew from what he wrote earlier about his thoughts on contador. lance armstrong most dominant GT rider HAHAHA!!!! heck even my grandma would finish top 10 in tdf with all the substance he was on...get out of here man you have no idea lol

He was superior to others and it doesnt matter what they were on.

 

[rhubroma]

If I'm sincere, and I'm being sincere, Landa was the best climber in the Giro 2015, but the strongest climber doesn't always win. Although I think if Astana had managed him better, he could have been an even greater threat to Contador than he already was (which also means potentially winning). The problem, of course, was that Aru being Italian in Italy's GT, meant that he'd of had to totally crack (and, while this almost happened, to his credit didn't, because Aru demonstrated great character in getting through those difficult moments) for Landa to have taken over the Astana leadership.

Of course sport is not to be assessed on "what ifs" or "ands or buts," however, what I don't think can be denied is that Landa always seemed to have the smoothest pedal stroke and was the most efficient power/effort wise.

But there are, naturally, possible explinations in terms of Contador's performances, which, while very good in the mountains, weren't his best.

First off, Contador was racing the Giro with a "phase two" to have to tackle: the Tour. Landa wasn't and neither was Aru, his biggest rivals. It's possible then that Contador understood that he would enter the Giro in very good form, calculating that it would be enough to win against the actual field, but not in top form. He certainly had hoped to win the Giro without having to expend as much energy as he actually did, but against that Astana and considering the weakness of Tinkoff in the mountains, it cost him what it cost. In the end he won it more with his head than with his actual condiition, while nothing Astana did to unseat him ever worked. But the great champions also demonstrate that they are indeed great, when they can win even when not in top shape.

Secondly, perhaps the long TT (so unusual for the Italian race, at least recently) was forseen by Contador as being even more key to the final outcome then the mountains would actually have been. More then than just a way to put time into the great climbers of the race, Contador may have seen the TT as the true basis of his Giro preparation, which in this way could have compensated for a possible forseen lack of explosiveness on the big climbs. In fact both Aru and Landa were destroyed by Contador in the TT (I think sometimes people forget just how good Contador can be against the clock, as he has demonstrated throughout his career, even if there obviously were some disappointing performances). I'm only wondering if Landa lost as much time as he did, 4 min., to just poor time trialing, or did Astana tell him to leave some reserves for the final week in the mountains? Either way, any hope for Landa was seriously conditioned by his TT performance. On a curious note, it always struck me that Contador repeatedly told the Italian press that "he was satisfied with his preparation" specifying though (hermetically perhaps) that he "wasn't able to prepare for the Giro any better," which presupposes that his preparation was given a quota, beyond which it was prudent not to go (obviously with the Tour in mind).

Bottom line is that the way Contador seems to have approached the Giro was to have been able to win it at 80-85% If that's the case the Tour gets very interesting indeed. If not, on the other hand, than the Tour becomes very complicated for him. On the face of it, though, there is reason to be optimistic that we will see Alberto at 100% against Froome, Quintana and Nibali, which is good for the Tour.

 

[Electress]

I suspect that there was a combination of things on stage 20 that lies somewhere between critics and hopefuls. Clearly, Contador had some kind of crisis and didn't much like the surface, and was dropped. Using hyperbolic similes just inflames matters and is equally wishful thinking. Dropped like a stone and he'd have lost the Giro IMO.

It is notable however, that, having lost the time, he maintained a pretty stable grip on the discrepancy. Given how he was riding and his tactical nouse, at this point I can well entertain that he made a calculation that Astana were not going to catch up sufficiently in the distance remaining. And having made that calculation, was able to ride to a comfortable enough pace and lose more time than he might have done had the differential between first and second been smaller at the outset. So to that extent, he could, in my eyes, be 'bluffing' - i.e. limiting his losses, but making no great effort to limit them to 1 minute as opposed to 2 or whatever.

Seems to me there is some wishful thinking going on though - it is clear to me that Contador had a lot taken out of him by this Giro. However, isn't it a measure of the man and his dominance of this sport that failing to win the Tour is painted by some as some kind of failure. That's a recognition of where he stands. Does anybody really entertain that it would be a humiliation not achieve the double? If so, then whoever you are, you must secretly believe / fear that he's even better than I do!

For all the ranting, the question remains as it did before this Giro started - whether or not Contador can recover and reach anything like peak before the Tour. I am concerned - he looks shattered - but neither do I underestimate him. I simply do not know whether it is possible. I know I hope so.

The Landa love affair amazes me. I'm not saying he's come out of nowhere, exactly, but he's got a lot to do to live up to the Great White Hope he's being billed as. Strikes me he is being seized, as ever, as an 'anything but Contador' by those people, who for some reason, want to undermine Alberto's performances and imply - bizarrely - that somehow he didn't deserve to win this Giro. Or only won because Astana were hopeless. When the reality of the situation is that Contador, frequently alone, overcame an incredibly dominant team set about tiring him as much as possible. So no matter the what ifs and buts and would've should've could've, they failed to win despite having nine riders trying.

I am reminded of the tennis - one year Kevin Curran served about a billion aces at Wimbledon and was literally unplayable. Fast forward a few years and I'm sure for most it is 'Kevin Who?' He didn't turn out to be a McEnroe / Federer / Nadal after all. If anything Alberto proves from his remarkable career, no matter whether you count all his victories on the road or not, to be a Grand Tour rider of his stature you have to be consistent. So let's not crown Landa with more than he deserves until he's consolidated his emergence, eh?

I find it quite sad how people seem to want to undermine other people's pleasure in victory. What a ungenerous spirit.

 

[Miburo]

I suspect contador learned from his mistakes in 2013. And if this giro form was his topform then he's not that much better than in 2013 (except for his ITT)

So i hope this form was planned out. We'll know in 5 weeks.

But i'm sure that if he has his form of tour 2014, it'll be the best tour since 2003 (at least).

Nibali, quintana and froome won't be easy to defeat. Add in the fact that this parcours is made for purito and piti, you really have a race that almost has to be good.

Pray to the heavens that no ones crashes out in the first week.

Should have been a 50 km ITT in it though.

 

[Electress]

Re:

I suspect contador learned from his mistakes in 2013. And if this giro form was his topform then he's not that much better than in 2013 (except for his ITT)

So i hope this form was planned out. We'll know in 5 weeks.

But i'm sure that if he has his form of tour 2014, it'll be the best tour since 2003 (at least).

Nibali, quintana and froome won't be easy to defeat. Add in the fact that this parcours is made for purito and piti, you really have a race that almost has to be good.

Pray to the heavens that no ones crashes out in the first week.

Should have been a 50 km ITT in it though.

I am less hopeful about the 2014 form. Not because I think it was 'a fluke', but because I think the Giro will have taken the edge off. But I do believe that Contador, amongst all the favourites who are there, is the best placed to use the opportunities that will be presented by having several favourites all having to watch one another. He's got the guts to take risks, and the nouse to see the chinks, and if it is a cautious, defensive and very watchful race between the other contenders, it might be those qualities which make all the difference.

I know people are looking forward to the big showdown, etc., but I suspect what we'll get is a lot of shadow-boxing; could end up being a bit of a let-down. I anticipate someone crashing out, someone not living up to the hype, and a lot of wheel-grindingly dull Sky-style dragging from uber-mensch team time trial behaviour.