Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

+1. it's ok to like alberto, admire him as a rider and personality, enjoy this genius on bike. but when adoration boarders with desrespectful and derogaroty remarks adressed to his opponents, starting from valverde and purito and ending with tejay, not to mention about sky, it frightens.

Not sure if you are just throwing out randoms names to make a point but I love Purito and don't mind Tejay at all. So whoever you're describing, it's not me.

if bertie took his rivals the way some of his fan do, he would never been able to become a legend, as apart from huge talent and hardwork, one of the fundamentals of why he's on top for so long is the objective attitude to himself and other riders.

No idea what this even means, surely he is such a legend because of his talent, style, determination and the sacrifices he made. If you mean he is never disrespectful and always humble, yes that's part of the reason why he has so many fans all around the globe, very few people like arrogant or disrespectful turds.

surely, contador is not blame for it and living in his own reality but it's the thing which spoils his image on the forumboard, that's for sure.

I get your point but fans influence people's opinion on riders and teams a lot, for example on twitter and on here I see a lot of Sky fans who are either clueless or arrogant and disrespectful (or both - those are the worst) and they make me dislike the team even more. However if you already like a rider/team I doubt annoying fans will make you suddenly hate the rider - clearly this is the case because Contador has more than enough fans on here and everywhere else actually. I don't think his image on here has been spoiled at all, he's only gotten more popular over the years.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

With being a fan of a certain sportsperson it comes automatically, that you develop a certain feeling towards them. When you find a character, that you are going to cheer for, and if you are realy passionate about it you basically win when they do and lose when they lose. It is like taht for some people (me included) that seeing their favourite win is the greatest pleasure they have. They feel superior for supporting the best guy. The problem comes, when your favourite is not the best (or cannot win). You feel like someone is taking your pleasure away. You unintentionally start hating that "other guy", even if you know it's wrong.

As I have seen myself, the worst thing about taking a lot of your pleasure and excitement from watching sports is that you cannot do anything about the outcome and that makes it very hard and depressing, when your favourite isn't doing well. If you are lucky you support athletes in differnet sports and at least some of them are winning. If not, things become really dull...

Very well said. It is unintential, subconscious and completely irrational. You can't control who you like.

 

[Red Rick]

Interesting discussion, never thought of this before

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Shhh, dont try to introduce logic here. Many have tried but the small army led by LaFlo always takes over in the end.

Convicted Doper -----MS Paint----> Hero, and the argument pretty much ends there.
Let them have it this one thread when there is no place for facts, and they can live in their own world.

It's a tough job but someone has to do it!

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

With being a fan of a certain sportsperson it comes automatically, that you develop a certain feeling towards them. When you find a character, that you are going to cheer for, and if you are realy passionate about it you basically win when they do and lose when they lose. It is like taht for some people (me included) that seeing their favourite win is the greatest pleasure they have. They feel superior for supporting the best guy. The problem comes, when your favourite is not the best (or cannot win). You feel like someone is taking your pleasure away. You unintentionally start hating that "other guy", even if you know it's wrong.

As I have seen myself, the worst thing about taking a lot of your pleasure and excitement from watching sports is that you cannot do anything about the outcome and that makes it very hard and depressing, when your favourite isn't doing well. If you are lucky you support athletes in differnet sports and at least some of them are winning. If not, things become really dull...

Very well said. It is unintential, subconscious and completely irrational. You can't control who you like.

Well stated argument. But if the greatest pleasure someone has is seeing an athlete win, it is time to throw out the tv, turn off the internet, and do something bout their lives. Go travel, get a job you are happy eith, move to the place they always wanted to live in, etc.
Don't just remain in this sad state of affairs

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Well stated argument. But if the greatest pleasure someone has is seeing an athlete win, it is time to throw out the tv, turn off the internet, and do something bout their lives. Go travel, get a job you are happy eith, move to the place they always wanted to live in, etc.
Don't just remain in this sad state of affairs

I am quite happy with my life and I feel privileged to be able to support one of the best cyclists ever Sad is the last word I would choose!

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

I get your point but fans influence people's opinion on riders and teams a lot, for example on twitter and on here I see a lot of Sky fans who are either clueless or arrogant and disrespectful (or both - those are the worst) and they make me dislike the team even more. However if you already like a rider/team I doubt annoying fans will make you suddenly hate the rider - clearly this is the case because Contador has more than enough fans on here and everywhere else actually. I don't think his image on here has been spoiled at all, he's only gotten more popular over the years.

I was trying to express the general impression. naturally, fans of a certain rider can be very different and they really are based on contador supporters' example. the only thing i'm all for is probably great indulgence to the other riders and their fans. when reading this thread sometimes it seems riders of van garderen's tier started to participate in road cycling in vain, valverde is a complete loser, all the gc riders but contador are way overrated and so on. contador won 7 (9) grand tours, someone has 1 under his belt, overwhelming majority has zero, but that's not the reason to regard all the rest as shiity (average) riders what certain posters like to getting at. it's totally a senseless ploy to compare everyone to contador as сonditional contadors are born once in 20-30 years.

 

[rick james]

Alberto will leave a tainted legacy....sadly for him and his fans

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I was trying to express the general impression. naturally, fans of a certain rider can be very different and they really are based on contador supporters' example. the only thing i'm all for is probably great indulgence to the other riders and their fans. when reading this thread sometimes it seems riders of van garderen's tier started to participate in road cycling in vain and valverde is a complete loser. contador won 7 (9) grand tours, someone has 1 under his belt, overwhelming majority has zero, but that's not the reason to regard all the rest as shiity (average) rider what certain rider like to getting at. it's totally a senseless ploy to compare everyone to contador as сonditional contadors are born once in 20-30 years.

Yes but my point was never that other riders are shitty - my point was that Froome is not even close to Contador's level in terms of greatness. With which I mean - Contador is exceptionally exceptional - rather than Froome is shitty. I tried to make that clear by placing Contador's achievements in a historical perspective

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

He'd need no tactical plan if he reaches this kind of form. Catalunya is not Tour

That is not enough againts Quintana and Froome, at least with good weather. To put 2 seconds to Nibali in a really hard 2 km climb is so impressive?

Yeah, ignore the entire 2014 season, and Contador's sharpness at that Tour and tell me it wouldn't have been enough against Froome and Quintana. Talking about brainless people. Reality is that Contador destroyed Quintana and Froome in every race in 2014. (Tirreno, Catalunya, Dauphiné, Vuelta). Wake up.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Alberto will leave a tainted legacy....sadly for him and his fans

Without a doubt his legacy will be somewhat tainted, but he still comfortably places among the greatest ever.

 

[BlurryVII]

History was always show he cheated to win them, they are void

Lol what the? Yeah, they're void in your inexistant world

On the other hand, you believe Sky's riding clean? Don't choke on your hypocrisy mate.

A few picograms is not worse than taking corticoids and getting away without any punishment. Holy bias.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

He'd need no tactical plan if he reaches this kind of form. Catalunya is not Tour

That is not enough againts Quintana and Froome, at least with good weather. To put 2 seconds to Nibali in a really hard 2 km climb is so impressive?

Yeah, ignore the entire 2014 season, and Contador's sharpness at that Tour and tell me it wouldn't have been enough against Froome and Quintana. Talking about brainless people. Reality is that Contador destroyed Quintana and Froome in every race in 2014. (Tirreno, Catalunya, Dauphiné, Vuelta). Wake up.

why are you so obsessed with any forms of 'destroying'? contador outplayed froome in the vuelta. how much time did he put into dawg in the mountains? probably about 1'20'' or so. the record wattages you like to deliver that much are achieved on froome's shoulders. and yet their chances were considered equal prior the tour.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

He'd need no tactical plan if he reaches this kind of form. Catalunya is not Tour

That is not enough againts Quintana and Froome, at least with good weather. To put 2 seconds to Nibali in a really hard 2 km climb is so impressive?

Yeah, ignore the entire 2014 season, and Contador's sharpness at that Tour and tell me it wouldn't have been enough against Froome and Quintana. Talking about brainless people. Reality is that Contador destroyed Quintana and Froome in every race in 2014. (Tirreno, Catalunya, Dauphiné, Vuelta). Wake up.

Again, its very hard to have a good tone when we are faced with comments like these everytime we question the great Contador. I mean, is is THAT hard to write what you wrote, but just not writing that we are brainless? There is no clear answer to it. Taxus has one perspective, you another, but that doesn't make him brainless, rather make you look like a fool.

If we were to have this conversation, lets remember its a semi flawed logic you use: Quintana were peaking for the Giro, while Contador obviously for the Tour. We all know that was a big difference. Meanwhile, he beat Froome with like 10 seconds over 2 MTF's. That not exactly smashing. Third, in the Dauphine, Froome won the 2 first stages hotly contested by Contador, but then crashed and obviously wasn't himself from that point on in the race. I think that was clear to everyone. But there is obviously no denying Contador was incredibly strong: Question was, can he match Quintana and Froome at 100%? We don't know.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Come on Flo, why should Froome Nibali and co not be mentioned in this thread? Should discussion of Berto's rivals be banned when discussing his own abilities/results/whatever?

Obviously you love AC, and I get that as AC's main rival, you dislike Froome (there are many other reasons why people may hate Froome, but in your case, it's purely because he's AC main challenger, and similarly you love tinkoff riders and dislike other sky riders (eg Kwiato, who is quite similar to Sagan in style, but one rides for tinkoff, other rides for Sky)). But please, think about things rationally and logically. It's quite ironic that you describe Sky fans as "so brainwashed they almost appear to live in an alternate universe in which Sky riders are automatically the best"

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

why are you so obsessed with any forms of 'destroying'? contador outplayed froome in the vuelta. how much time did he put into dawg in the mountains? probably about 1'20'' or so. the record wattages you like to deliver that much are achieved on froome's shoulders. and yet their chances were considered equal prior the tour.

Sorry, but what are you talking about? I hope I misunderstood, cause Contador's wattage was just as good if not better than Froome's prior to the Tour 14'.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

why are you so obsessed with any forms of 'destroying'? contador outplayed froome in the vuelta. how much time did he put into dawg in the mountains? probably about 1'20'' or so. the record wattages you like to deliver that much are achieved on froome's shoulders. and yet their chances were considered equal prior the tour.

Sorry, but what are you talking about? I hope I misunderstood, cause Contador's wattage was just as good if not better than Froome's prior to the Tour 14'.

mmmm... i was implying farrapona and one more stage bertie won in that race. probably i could misunderstand you in the distant debates too. sorry in advance

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

He'd need no tactical plan if he reaches this kind of form. Catalunya is not Tour

That is not enough againts Quintana and Froome, at least with good weather. To put 2 seconds to Nibali in a really hard 2 km climb is so impressive?

Yeah, ignore the entire 2014 season, and Contador's sharpness at that Tour and tell me it wouldn't have been enough against Froome and Quintana. Talking about brainless people. Reality is that Contador destroyed Quintana and Froome in every race in 2014. (Tirreno, Catalunya, Dauphiné, Vuelta). Wake up.

it is yor little objetive opinion. What I see is Froome stronger than Contador in Dauohiné.

Quintana was a young rider in 2014, but anyway you take too much conclusions of other races that are not the best reference for le Tour, like the attack of Tirreno.

And about la Vuelta I gave my opinion already.

i always meanwith all the contenders in his best shape.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Come on Flo, why should Froome Nibali and co not be mentioned in this thread? Should discussion of Berto's rivals be banned when discussing his own abilities/results/whatever?

Obviously you love AC, and I get that as AC's main rival, you dislike Froome (there are many other reasons why people may hate Froome, but in your case, it's purely because he's AC main challenger, and similarly you love tinkoff riders and dislike other sky riders (eg Kwiato, who is quite similar to Sagan in style, but one rides for tinkoff, other rides for Sky)). But please, think about things rationally and logically. It's quite ironic that you describe Sky fans as "so brainwashed they almost appear to live in an alternate universe in which Sky riders are automatically the best"

What? I come back and find the last dozen or so posts discussing how Froome would have been mega strong in the Tour - of course I am going to comment about that - it has nothing to do with Contador.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

He'd need no tactical plan if he reaches this kind of form. Catalunya is not Tour

That is not enough againts Quintana and Froome, at least with good weather. To put 2 seconds to Nibali in a really hard 2 km climb is so impressive?

Yeah, ignore the entire 2014 season, and Contador's sharpness at that Tour and tell me it wouldn't have been enough against Froome and Quintana. Talking about brainless people. Reality is that Contador destroyed Quintana and Froome in every race in 2014. (Tirreno, Catalunya, Dauphiné, Vuelta). Wake up.

Again, its very hard to have a good tone when we are faced with comments like these everytime we question the great Contador. I mean, is is THAT hard to write what you wrote, but just not writing that we are brainless? There is no clear answer to it. Taxus has one perspective, you another, but that doesn't make him brainless, rather make you look like a fool.

If we were to have this conversation, lets remember its a semi flawed logic you use: Quintana were peaking for the Giro, while Contador obviously for the Tour. We all know that was a big difference. Meanwhile, he beat Froome with like 10 seconds over 2 MTF's. That not exactly smashing. Third, in the Dauphine, Froome won the 2 first stages hotly contested by Contador, but then crashed and obviously wasn't himself from that point on in the race. I think that was clear to everyone. But there is obviously no denying Contador was incredibly strong: Question was, can he match Quintana and Froome at 100%? We don't know.

Oh, Contador dropped Froome by much more than just 10 seconds on 2 MTF's at the Vuelta. I'd suggest you to rewatch that .
Contador also has his reasons as to why he couldn't drop Froome on the first 2 stages of the Dauphiné, which is not riding Romandie and taking a huge break after Pais Vasco. Froome crashed and so what? Contador crashed even worse at the Giro 15', didn't prevent him from performing good and winning the Giro.

Your question can be asked both ways, Can Quintana and Froome beat AC at 100%? After all, Contador is still the one who has won most GTs post ban, isn't it?

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

why are you so obsessed with any forms of 'destroying'? contador outplayed froome in the vuelta. how much time did he put into dawg in the mountains? probably about 1'20'' or so. the record wattages you like to deliver that much are achieved on froome's shoulders. and yet their chances were considered equal prior the tour.

Sorry, but what are you talking about? I hope I misunderstood, cause Contador's wattage was just as good if not better than Froome's prior to the Tour 14'.

mmmm... i was implying farrapona and one more stage bertie won in that race. probably i could misunderstand you too in the distant debates too. sorry in advance

Contador was in Farrapona sucking wheel of Froome, yes, it is what he needed to do, for Froome is going to be always difficult to drop Contador, except very high slopes when sucking wheel is uselees, if they are at the same level as they were in that Vuelta. froome did a mistake by starting so strong the ITT, he admited later that mistake, he could recover some time at the end of that ITT, but once contador was better that ITT, very ifficult to win. Contador was in his best shpae and froome just in a good shape, no more.

We will see that real battle this year in July, no excuses, both of then is his best shape, in a year Contador do his best performance ever in Malhao.

A good parcours to Contador, but no excuse, Froome must beated him.

 

[burning]

Re: Re:

why are you so obsessed with any forms of 'destroying'? contador outplayed froome in the vuelta. how much time did he put into dawg in the mountains? probably about 1'20'' or so. the record wattages you like to deliver that much are achieved on froome's shoulders. and yet their chances were considered equal prior the tour.

Sorry, but what are you talking about? I hope I misunderstood, cause Contador's wattage was just as good if not better than Froome's prior to the Tour 14'.

mmmm... i was implying farrapona and one more stage bertie won in that race. probably i could misunderstand you too in the distant debates too. sorry in advance

Contador was in Farrapona sucking wheel of Froome, yes, it is what he needed to do, for Froome is going to be always difficult to drop Contador, except very high slopes when sucking wheel is uselees, if they are at the same level as they were in that Vuelta. froome did a mistake by starting so strong the ITT, he admited later that mistake, he could recover some time at the end of that ITT, but once contador was better that ITT, very ifficult to win. Contador was in his best shpae and froome just in a good shape, no more.

We will see that real battle this year in July, no excuses, both of then is his best shape, in a year Contador do his best performance ever in Malhao.

A good parcours to Contador, but no excuse, Froome must beated him.

Really?

Btw I do think that the leg break was BS.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

i always mean with all the contenders in his best shape.

Oh , and so what's your point? Froome and Quintana are better because they battled it out in the Tour 13' and 15'? Nope, Contador was not in his best shape . Just like you have your reasons for NQ and CF, Contador rode the Giro in 15' and had his off season in 2013 after 6 years at the top of the sport.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Contador also has his reasons as to why he couldn't drop Froome on the first 2 stages of the Dauphiné, which is not riding Romandie and taking a huge break after Pais Vasco.

rider 1 having the edge form-wise over rider 2 due to biggest amount of racing miles is quite a shaky generalization. i think you realize it yourself. that's way more complicated, sometimes it works, other times not as we all could make sure yesterday.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

win. Contador was in his best shpae and froome just in a good shape, no more.

Oh my goodness
Not gonna argue that, cause it's probably a joke.

Funny thing is that if you pull Contador out of the Vuelta 14', Froome wins Farrapona and Ancares with over 50 seconds on Valverde, Rodriguez, Aru. And people would go Apeshit 'Oh, he's gone thermonuclear, he's back to his best'. His watts also suggest that he was close to his best actually.

But nope, since Contador was there to drop him, apparently he was not. Brain bias
Contador coming out of worse injury too by the way, just leaving it out there.