Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Angliru]

I have a friend, he is just a cycling fan, no a cyclist, and he did 1500 with a 11 Kg bike the previous day.

So funny how people set their priorities. I don't have that stuff, but my bike is much lighter .

11kg bike what's the point. No relevance whatsoever .

What is thw same friend that is a friend of Landa? Or no, I got it - it was Landa himself, we have all seen it Well I didn't know he uses 11kg bike, that finally makes some excuse for his performace at Pais Vasco.


On topic: would be great if he moved to Etixx and Etixx would buy 2 or 3 mountain domestics too. Finally after all years in stupid russian and kazach teams, he would be in a normal one.

I supoosed people here are able to read:

he is just a cycling fan, no a cyclist

Landa is a cyclist, Mikelarri was a cyclist in amateur. This man no. he is a normal cyclotourist, although he rode endurace things as transamerican. But the difference bettwen a pro rider and a ciclotouris is really big.

https://www.facebook.com/carlosbi.apm?fref=ts

...and here all along I thought I was a cyclist. Considering the amount of time I spend on my bike and with cycling in general on my mind I thought I'd earned that title. A cyclotourist is not a cyclist? Only pro riders are "cyclists" in your opinion?

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

2009 is a bit overrated actually as the upcoming Tour editions were very low. But compared to the years before it ain't been no giant Tour at all. There ain't been much action at all the first two weeks. Tony Martin still was in the top 5 by then. That should tell enough.

Also Schleck always has been a guy to deal with for Contador.

Disagree, I think 2009 showed that Contador toyed with his opposition in any terrain under very difficult circumstance cause of Armstrong. You are right about the route, probably one of the most horrible routes in recent history, but Verbier and the ITT showed that he was at least one level above everyone else. His 2009 was flawless as a whole apart from the Paris-Nice crack, but he was comfortably the strongest in that race as well, following the script of the Tour of winning the ITT and smashing everyone on the MTF, but in the Tour without having anything close to a bad day.

What always bothers me is why he didnt went on Ventoux. He coulda won the stage easily IMO, but its hard to say whether he was human that day or he really didnt care.

By that time he had the Tour won and he was riding, likely against his better judgement, to preserve Armstrong's podium spot. At least that is how I remember it.

 

[Netserk]

So now Taxus is trying to convince everyone that doing 6.74 W/kg for 12'12'' is more impressive than ~6.8 W/kg for 15'32''???

Of course it was under very different circumstances, but please stop misinforming, Taxus. It's fair enough if you don't know how to compare climbing times on different climbs, but don't pretend that you do.

 

[Taxus4a]

I have a friend, he is just a cycling fan, no a cyclist, and he did 1500 with a 11 Kg bike the previous day.

So funny how people set their priorities. I don't have that stuff, but my bike is much lighter .

11kg bike what's the point. No relevance whatsoever .

What is thw same friend that is a friend of Landa? Or no, I got it - it was Landa himself, we have all seen it Well I didn't know he uses 11kg bike, that finally makes some excuse for his performace at Pais Vasco.


On topic: would be great if he moved to Etixx and Etixx would buy 2 or 3 mountain domestics too. Finally after all years in stupid russian and kazach teams, he would be in a normal one.

I supoosed people here are able to read:

he is just a cycling fan, no a cyclist

Landa is a cyclist, Mikelarri was a cyclist in amateur. This man no. he is a normal cyclotourist, although he rode endurace things as transamerican. But the difference bettwen a pro rider and a ciclotouris is really big.

https://www.facebook.com/carlosbi.apm?fref=ts[/quote]

...and here all along I thought I was a cyclist. Considering the amount of time I spend on my bike and with cycling in general on my mind I thought I'd earned that title. A cyclotourist is not a cyclist? Only pro riders are "cyclists" in your opinion?[/quote]

Master, amateurs, juniors,...are cylist as well, they go to competitions.. In this case I could consider him a cyclist in fact he call himelf Carlo Alyen.cyclist) becouse he has race a kind of ultra endurace race here in Spain and the transamerican. But the way he lived and how he manage with cycling is for me a cyclotourist. Anyway this year he is changing his way a little. But he is an endurace rider, so I was surprised he told me he did 1500 VAM in Matsaria an similar in the ITT slope with his 11 kg bike he use to ride.

 

[BlurryVII]

Blurry - still waiting for your reply, I think we had an interesting conversation.

No we didn't, you just summed up what I thought, which was correct. No need for reply.

 

[BlurryVII]

Contador's performance on that climb was certainly incredible, he's in brilliant form. Now I'd wouldn't go as far as saying he's on par with 2009, If he does that kind of performance on a MTF at the end of a stage then I'd consider he is at 09' level. For now, he hasn't, but he might do that later at Dauphiné and Tour.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Blurry - still waiting for your reply, I think we had an interesting conversation.

No we didn't, you just summed up what I thought, which was correct. No need for reply.

Ok, I thought so. So its something like

1. Contador
2. Froome +2.00
3. Quintana +5.00

 

[BlurryVII]

Blurry - still waiting for your reply, I think we had an interesting conversation.

No we didn't, you just summed up what I thought, which was correct. No need for reply.

Ok, I thought so. So its something like

1. Contador
2. Froome +2.00
3. Quintana +5.00

No Quintana's too far off, I don't think he'll make the same mistake as last years to be under par on the first MTF. But overall, that's the way I see it , if they all come up on top shape, Contador wins it.
Nothing guarantees that'll happen but if AC brings the A game, it's gonna take a lot to beat him and that's where people tend to be biased by recent TDFs.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Back in the time warp are we?

Yes. We need to call Marty from back to the Future!!!

 

[Escarabajo]

Via ammattipyoraily on twitter


#Itzulia, Arrate (ITT)

Contador: 15:32, 20.43 Kph, VAM 1831 m/h, ~6.6 W/kg (est.)
Pinot: 16:33, 19.18 Kph, VAM 1718 m/h, ~6.1 W/kg (est.)

Wow.
That must be pretty close to his best numbers, even from -09.
Vamos

Too short to tell.

Too short to tell that no.. and it was the begining of an ITT, so much more NO. He is not very far for this kind of performances. For that is just genetic, but he is not close. Of course with the numbers we have, he would have done more than 2000 VAM in 2009.

If you are going to predict a future performance on the Tour based on that, then you are deluding yourself. It is too short to tell anything. It is a great performance but cannot make much more conclusions other that he is very talented cyclist.

 

[burning]

Re:

So now Taxus is trying to convince everyone that doing 6.74 W/kg for 12'12'' is more impressive than ~6.8 W/kg for 15'32''???

Of course it was under very different circumstances, but please stop misinforming, Taxus. It's fair enough if you don't know how to compare climbing times on different climbs, but don't pretend that you do.

LMAO, that completely blows up his great claims about "wonderfull years" and he pretty much dodges every post that he can not reply, this guy has no idea what the hell he is talking about.

 

[ray j willings]

Data is all well and good but you have one really bad day and booooom your tour is over.
We all [ bertie fans] want Bertie to win but come the tour come Froome Quintana and bonkers Astana and those numbers mean nothing. You have to know how to suffer its that simple.
The tour is won on the road not on data figures.
I'm seriously considering switching to becoming a Foome fan ....Bertie fans on here are so nerdy its unbelievable.
Do you actually ride a bike? Its like a real click of geeks who couldn't ride alp d huez in under a hour. You absolutely have no idea. Go ride a bike FFS.

I'm going over to the dark side

 

[bajbar]

Data is all well and good but you have one really bad day and booooom your tour is over.
We all [ bertie fans] want Bertie to win but come the tour come Froome Quintana and bonkers Astana and those numbers mean nothing. You have to know how to suffer its that simple.
The tour is won on the road not on data figures.
I'm seriously considering switching to becoming a Foome fan ....Bertie fans on here are so nerdy its unbelievable.
Do you actually ride a bike? Its like a real click of geeks who couldn't ride alp d huez in under a hour. You absolutely have no idea. Go ride a bike FFS.

I'm going over to the dark side

What you said is absolutelly true. You can have the best numbers, but a bad day or a crash makes you lose it completely. But if you don't have the best numbers there is no way that you are going to win at all (unless you believe your 5 biggest rivals who are better than you are going to crash out). So numbers are important, but they are not everything!

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

Data is all well and good but you have one really bad day and booooom your tour is over.
We all [ bertie fans] want Bertie to win but come the tour come Froome Quintana and bonkers Astana and those numbers mean nothing. You have to know how to suffer its that simple.
The tour is won on the road not on data figures.
I'm seriously considering switching to becoming a Foome fan ....Bertie fans on here are so nerdy its unbelievable.
Do you actually ride a bike? Its like a real click of geeks who couldn't ride alp d huez in under a hour. You absolutely have no idea. Go ride a bike FFS.

I'm going over to the dark side

is that the standard now? I've done the alpe half a dozen times if you include via villard reculas and never got close to doing it under an hour.
*logs off in shame*

 

[blackmamba]

Data is all well and good but you have one really bad day and booooom your tour is over.
We all [ bertie fans] want Bertie to win but come the tour come Froome Quintana and bonkers Astana and those numbers mean nothing. You have to know how to suffer its that simple.
The tour is won on the road not on data figures.
I'm seriously considering switching to becoming a Foome fan ....Bertie fans on here are so nerdy its unbelievable.
Do you actually ride a bike? Its like a real click of geeks who couldn't ride alp d huez in under a hour. You absolutely have no idea. Go ride a bike FFS.

I'm going over to the dark side

Contador is superior to everyone in all areas ( tactically, strenght etc) WHEN hes in top shape so how are they gonne beat him? With superior team is the only chance if he dont crash or anything like that. (And before you mention the recent tours try to think further than your nose and logically pls. HE RODE THE GIRO before rest you should figure out yourself.

Its simple, fanboy all you want as a excuse but its pretty simply when you look at the facts I actually challenge anyone to come up with a single serious note based on facts / stats that we know of and not just your thoughts which is totally not interessting but FACTS to show otherwice, he is simply the greatest GT rider of all time. To be ahead of the answers again, YES HINAULT is a all time great and a huge champion but he competed at a time when it was far less competition and technology and science basically didnt exsist and he didnt keep on winning grand tours 10 years after the first one, even then so its not even close at this point.

So yes if hes TOP shape without any injuries or illness ahead of the Tour he will win, barring any incidents in the Tour ofc. But he needs to be top shape else he wont be good enough cause Froome is good!

Listen if someone beats him in a GT when hes in TOP conditions I will be the first one to admit that he no longer is number one and father time has caught up with him but untill that happens and everything else suggest otherwice it doesnt make sense to do that!

And no im not a Contador fan boy, im a cycling fan boy it just so happens that Contador happens to be the greatest GC rider of our generation and its nothing anyone can do with that.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Contador isn't superior to anyone when at 100% in all areas. He is as good a climber as Nairo and Froome in his best shape and have some tools they don't, Froome is the better TT'er, while Nairo is regarded as having the best recovery. What would the GC look like in Paris if he attended Le Tour at 100%? I assume he would first distance Froome a bit on Aspin and gain further 30 seconds on the descent, 30 more on Arcalis, go even at worst at the ITT and then begin to toy with him in the 3rd week. Meanwhile, he would find Nairito grasping for air in his wheel in the Alps, asking kindly to slow down the pace. But his role has been outplayed after a poor ITT and an Arcalis crack!

Whoops, I dont know if you just edited it, but I couldn't stop laughing when I read your last sentence. Dear lord.

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

Data is all well and good but you have one really bad day and booooom your tour is over.
We all [ bertie fans] want Bertie to win but come the tour come Froome Quintana and bonkers Astana and those numbers mean nothing. You have to know how to suffer its that simple.
The tour is won on the road not on data figures.
I'm seriously considering switching to becoming a Foome fan ....Bertie fans on here are so nerdy its unbelievable.
Do you actually ride a bike? Its like a real click of geeks who couldn't ride alp d huez in under a hour. You absolutely have no idea. Go ride a bike FFS.

I'm going over to the dark side

Contador is superior to everyone in all areas ( tactically, strenght etc) WHEN hes in top shape so how are they gonne beat him? With superior team is the only chance if he dont crash or anything like that. (And before you mention the recent tours try to think further than your nose and logically pls. HE RODE THE GIRO before rest you should figure out yourself.

Its simple, fanboy all you want as a excuse but its pretty simply when you look at the facts I actually challenge anyone to come up with a single serious note based on facts / stats that we know of and not just your thoughts which is totally not interessting but FACTS to show otherwice, he is simply the greatest GT rider of all time. To be ahead of the answers again, YES HINAULT is a all time great and a huge champion but he competed at a time when it was far less competition and technology and science basically didnt exsist and he didnt keep on winning grand tours 10 years after the first one, even then so its not even close at this point.

So yes if hes TOP shape without any injuries or illness ahead of the Tour he will win, barring any incidents in the Tour ofc. But he needs to be top shape else he wont be good enough cause Froome is good!

He's not the greatest GT rider of all time. If he has 9 then you really have to give merckx 12 for the 69 giro so he's a way off there, and thats before you speculate about how many more Coppi would have won if he didnt spend his mid 20's in a PoW camp. Alberto is by far the best of his generation but he's not the greatest ever.

 

[blackmamba]

Data is all well and good but you have one really bad day and booooom your tour is over.
We all [ bertie fans] want Bertie to win but come the tour come Froome Quintana and bonkers Astana and those numbers mean nothing. You have to know how to suffer its that simple.
The tour is won on the road not on data figures.
I'm seriously considering switching to becoming a Foome fan ....Bertie fans on here are so nerdy its unbelievable.
Do you actually ride a bike? Its like a real click of geeks who couldn't ride alp d huez in under a hour. You absolutely have no idea. Go ride a bike FFS.

I'm going over to the dark side

Contador is superior to everyone in all areas ( tactically, strenght etc) WHEN hes in top shape so how are they gonne beat him? With superior team is the only chance if he dont crash or anything like that. (And before you mention the recent tours try to think further than your nose and logically pls. HE RODE THE GIRO before rest you should figure out yourself.

Its simple, fanboy all you want as a excuse but its pretty simply when you look at the facts I actually challenge anyone to come up with a single serious note based on facts / stats that we know of and not just your thoughts which is totally not interessting but FACTS to show otherwice, he is simply the greatest GT rider of all time. To be ahead of the answers again, YES HINAULT is a all time great and a huge champion but he competed at a time when it was far less competition and technology and science basically didnt exsist and he didnt keep on winning grand tours 10 years after the first one, even then so its not even close at this point.

So yes if hes TOP shape without any injuries or illness ahead of the Tour he will win, barring any incidents in the Tour ofc. But he needs to be top shape else he wont be good enough cause Froome is good!

He's not the greatest GT rider of all time. If he has 9 then you really have to give merckx 12 for the 69 giro so he's a way off there, and thats before you speculate about how many more Coppi would have won if he didnt spend his mid 20's in a PoW camp. Alberto is by far the best of his generation but he's not the greatest ever.

In a time when exactly how many was into cyclingc compared to the lvl cycling is now and the last 10 years? (look at the money which is in cycling these days, science etc everything compared to back when Coppi, Merckx etc) Anyway I get your points but I respectfully have to disagree with you beacuse of the competition lvl now compared to then.

Also neither Merckx won GT's in a time span over 10 years? Thought it was 5-6 max 7 years he won em but I might be wrong about that.

I guess its debateable and comes down to whatever you value the most I guess and also may I add impossible to get the real answer from imo beacuse of the difference in times.

 

[blackmamba]

Re:

Whoops, I dont know if you just edited it, but I couldn't stop laughing when I read your last sentence. Dear lord.

You know I say the same about Boonen right and the cobble classics? My thoughts on Cancellara for instance?

I guess that makes me a fanboy of Contador, Cancellara and Boonen what a coincidence just randomly happens to be the greatest of our generation. No boy im a fan of cycling first and foremost im sad for you that you cant appriciate so unique and rare talents and let your hatred come in the way of truly enjoying beeing actually able to live when some of history greatest in cycling actually raced (in their respective areas ofc) Boonen best cobble classic rider of all time and Contador GT rider, last one can be argued Ill admit that but definitly NOT when it comes to our generation!

So for all means laugh away

 

[infeXio]

Re:

Contador isn't superior to anyone when at 100% in all areas. He is as good a climber as Nairo and Froome in his best shape and have some tools they don't, Froome is the better TT'er, while Nairo is regarded as having the best recovery.

He is?

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Whoops, I dont know if you just edited it, but I couldn't stop laughing when I read your last sentence. Dear lord.

You know I say the same about Boonen right and the cobble classics? My thoughts on Cancellara for instance?

I guess that makes me a fanboy of Contador, Cancellara and Boonen what a coincidence just randomly happens to be the greatest of our generation. No boy im a fan of cycling first and foremost im sad for you that you cant appriciate so unique and rare talents and let your hatred come in the way of truly enjoying beeing actually able to live when some of history greatest in cycling actually raced (in their respective areas ofc) Boonen best cobble classic rider of all time and Contador GT rider, last one can be argued Ill admit that but definitly NOT when it comes to our generation!


So for all means laugh away

in other words, if one's not on your bandwagon, one's an ac hater?

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

So now Taxus is trying to convince everyone that doing 6.74 W/kg for 12'12'' is more impressive than ~6.8 W/kg for 15'32''???

Of course it was under very different circumstances, but please stop misinforming, Taxus. It's fair enough if you don't know how to compare climbing times on different climbs, but don't pretend that you do.

It is the same climb, little bit long by the side of the ITT. 6,74 is something you say, but Itmutnot be calculated the same way the other climb. What I am sure is that is 2012 VAM againts under of 1900 in a similar climb. (so that 6,75 must be more than 7 for sure.

And what it is sure is than to perform in at the end of a stage with more climbs attacking at the middle of a climb is more difficult that in a shor ITT. I think you are agree with this, dont you?

 

[blackmamba]

Anyway this is pointless and stupid discussion. I wont participate anymore its like arguing over answers beeing wrong in test when the facts proves the real answer (in this case the history books proves it )


Ill just end it with its nothing more I hope for this year in cycling that we get Contador in top conditions vs Froome and Ill add in Quintana aswell in top Conditions cause nothing was worse for a cycling fan than last time we was robbbed for that spectacular show in 2014.

And no,not at all dacoley it just means in this instance hes wrong nothing more

 

[Taxus4a]

Tell me how that 6,8 is calculated, and we can calculate the w/kg for that Arrate clinmb in 2009 the same way.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Whoops, I dont know if you just edited it, but I couldn't stop laughing when I read your last sentence. Dear lord.

You know I say the same about Boonen right and the cobble classics? My thoughts on Cancellara for instance?

I guess that makes me a fanboy of Contador, Cancellara and Boonen what a coincidence just randomly happens to be the greatest of our generation. No boy im a fan of cycling first and foremost im sad for you that you cant appriciate so unique and rare talents and let your hatred come in the way of truly enjoying beeing actually able to live when some of history greatest in cycling actually raced (in their respective areas ofc) Boonen best cobble classic rider of all time and Contador GT rider, last one can be argued Ill admit that but definitly NOT when it comes to our generation!

So for all means laugh away

Im by no means a Contador-hater at all. But I guess it makes me a hater to question your statement that Contador, when 100%, is the best in all aspects. All aspects in GT's include climbing, TTing, downhill, tactics etc. If that was the case, Contador would win by a landslide in July. I think its fair to question that.

Yes, Quintana is regarded as the GC-contender who has the best recovery. At least by me and a lot others, coincidentally not many of the AC-fans tho. The difference being, I dont state that as an obnoxious fact as blackmamba does and calls everyone who disagrees or even questions it a hater.