Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

 

[filipepc]

Re: Re:

I have a doubt about how much time Tinkoff will loose to sky in the firts day? That can be a problem, i think it can be more than a minute, maybe two.

That´s not good.

I agree that Tinkoff will likely lose time, but I don't think they'll lose as much as you expect. It seems likely that Bennati, Boaro and Gogl will be in the team, add some riders with a decently large engine like Trofimov and Paulinho and they'll be able to limit the damage.

I hope so... He must have a small loss, i really have a doubt how much he will loose... 30 km´s is a lot, and i really thonk that more than a minute can be a problem...

 

[filipepc]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

Me too, but is sad... It´s unfair and it takes the victory more dificult and farway...

To Beat Sky or you have the best form of your live, or you need a really strong team. He needs 3 or 4 Pantanos.

 

[damian13ster]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

Thats not fair. His TdF team was very good in 2013,14,15,16. He was crap

 

[Jspear]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

Thats not fair. His TdF team was very good in 2013,14,15,16. He was crap

That's not fair or your ignorant of cycling history. He wasn't crap in 14 and 16.

 

[Jakub]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

Thats not fair. His TdF team was very good in 2013,14,15,16. He was crap

That's not fair or your ignorant of cycling history. He wasn't crap in 14 and 16.

and his team in 15 and 16 was not good.

 

[damian13ster]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

Thats not fair. His TdF team was very good in 2013,14,15,16. He was crap

That's not fair or your ignorant of cycling history. He wasn't crap in 14 and 16.

The team was devotes to him, had good domestiques (as evident by their performance in said Tours), and he did stupid mistake and crashed out of the race through his own fault. Yeah. That is very definition of being crap and letting his team down. Thought you would have realized by now that cycling is not just about W/kg uphill. Or would you prefer that Tour would have been resolved by having riders sit on stationary bikes and take their powermeter readings?

And to Jakub: he had a good support in both 2015 and 2016. Sagan (absolute powerhouse), Kreuziger (top 10 in GC), Majka (KOTM, stage win) is a very good support that vast majority of GC riders can only dream about.

 

[Jspear]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

Thats not fair. His TdF team was very good in 2013,14,15,16. He was crap

That's not fair or your ignorant of cycling history. He wasn't crap in 14 and 16.

The team was devotes to him, had good domestiques (as evident by their performance in said Tours), and he did stupid mistake and crashed out of the race through his own fault. Yeah. That is very definition of being crap and letting his team down. Thought you would have realized by now that cycling is not just about W/kg uphill. Or would you prefer that Tour would have been resolved by having riders sit on stationary bikes and take their powermeter readings?

And to Jakub: he had a good support in both 2015 and 2016. Sagan (absolute powerhouse), Kreuziger (top 10 in GC), Majka (KOTM, stage win) is a very good support that vast majority of GC riders can only dream about.

Not in a sport like cycling. Crashes happen. Many great riders besides AC have crashed before....it doesn't mean they were crap in that race.

 

[damian13ster]

Well, here it was his own stupidity. This is different than crashing because someone crashed in front of you, etc. The team prepared their season around TDF and their leader lost almost 3min to future winner in 2014 and then crashed because of own stupidity and then in 2016 he crashed again due to his poor bike-handling, threw a temper tantrum and quit after being too weak to hold Kreuzigers wheel. If thats not letting his team down then I dont know what is


The team, roster, and team owner didnt let him down. He let THEM down

 

[Cannibal72]

I really don't think we've ever discussed this before, so this is enthralling.

 

[Jakub]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

Thats not fair. His TdF team was very good in 2013,14,15,16. He was crap

That's not fair or your ignorant of cycling history. He wasn't crap in 14 and 16.

The team was devotes to him, had good domestiques (as evident by their performance in said Tours), and he did stupid mistake and crashed out of the race through his own fault. Yeah. That is very definition of being crap and letting his team down. Thought you would have realized by now that cycling is not just about W/kg uphill. Or would you prefer that Tour would have been resolved by having riders sit on stationary bikes and take their powermeter readings?

And to Jakub: he had a good support in both 2015 and 2016. Sagan (absolute powerhouse), Kreuziger (top 10 in GC), Majka (KOTM, stage win) is a very good support that vast majority of GC riders can only dream about.

Well, do you think that Majka is a better (and more loyal) domestique than Poels because he has won KOM classification? And Kreuziger was a good domestique because he didn't wait for AC when AC needed, but wheelsucked to Top10 in a horrible way which also means he got dropped from main favourites group in every stage very early after having done no work so he would have been completely useless for AC?

No, I don't believe you mean it, so off you go

 

[Jspear]

Well, here it was his own stupidity. This is different than crashing because someone crashed in front of you, etc. The team prepared their season around TDF and their leader lost almost 3min to future winner in 2014 and then crashed because of own stupidity and then in 2016 he crashed again due to his poor bike-handling, threw a temper tantrum and quit after being too weak to hold Kreuzigers wheel. If thats not letting his team down then I dont know what is


The team, roster, and team owner didnt let him down. He let THEM down

Someone's touchy. Great riders have crashed in the pass with no one touching them. It still doesn't mean they're crap. It's a good thing your not a cycling journalist. You have an interesting way of interpreting what happened. Do you have a clip of this temper tantrum he threw? Also go ride your bike at 30+ mph and then crash...do it twice actually. Afterwards come tell us how it feels. Continue riding hard for over a week.

 

[damian13ster]

Well, here it was his own stupidity. This is different than crashing because someone crashed in front of you, etc. The team prepared their season around TDF and their leader lost almost 3min to future winner in 2014 and then crashed because of own stupidity and then in 2016 he crashed again due to his poor bike-handling, threw a temper tantrum and quit after being too weak to hold Kreuzigers wheel. If thats not letting his team down then I dont know what is


The team, roster, and team owner didnt let him down. He let THEM down

Someone's touchy. Great riders have crashed in the pass with no one touching them. It still doesn't mean they're crap. It's a good thing your not a cycling journalist. You have an interesting way of interpreting what happened. Do you have a clip of this temper tantrum he threw? Also go ride your bike at 30+ mph and then crash...do it twice actually. Afterwards come tell us how it feels. Continue riding hard for over a week.

I was replying to LaFlorecitas post saying that Contador usually has a crappy team. This is factually wrong. In all of those Tours Tinkoff was in top 3-4 easily when it comes to team strength. The weak teams were not the reason Contador failed.

And Jakub: the world is not black or white: just because Sky has a great team, doesnt mean every other team is weak. Tinkoff was the 2nd to 4th strongest team (depending how you rate them vs Movistar, Astana) in all of those Tours.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Contador has almost always had bad team support
Disco and Astana were very strong, a little less so in 2010, unfortunately in the 2009 Tour his teammates rode for someone else.
Since he joined Saxo, it's been terrible:
2011 Giro - crap
2011 TDF - crap
2012 Vuelta - Majka was strong but the rest: crap
2013 TDF - really strong
2014 TDF - decently strong but missing Kreuziger, and of course Alberto unfortunately crashed out
2014 Vuelta - crap
2015 Giro - crap
2015 Tour - Majka was okay, Sagan superb but the rest was crap
2016 Tour - team completely abandoned him already on stage 2

 

[DanielSong39]

It's unfortunate that Contador crashed early in the Tour de France, but given his condition it was clearly the right move to give up on him and focus on winning the green jersey and helping Kreuziger achieve a high finish.

Maybe next time?

 

[filipepc]

Well, here it was his own stupidity. This is different than crashing because someone crashed in front of you, etc. The team prepared their season around TDF and their leader lost almost 3min to future winner in 2014 and then crashed because of own stupidity and then in 2016 he crashed again due to his poor bike-handling, threw a temper tantrum and quit after being too weak to hold Kreuzigers wheel. If thats not letting his team down then I dont know what is


The team, roster, and team owner didnt let him down. He let THEM down

Someone's touchy. Great riders have crashed in the pass with no one touching them. It still doesn't mean they're crap. It's a good thing your not a cycling journalist. You have an interesting way of interpreting what happened. Do you have a clip of this temper tantrum he threw? Also go ride your bike at 30+ mph and then crash...do it twice actually. Afterwards come tell us how it feels. Continue riding hard for over a week.

I was replying to LaFlorecitas post saying that Contador usually has a crappy team. This is factually wrong. In all of those Tours Tinkoff was in top 3-4 easily when it comes to team strength. The weak teams were not the reason Contador failed.

And Jakub: the world is not black or white: just because Sky has a great team, doesnt mean every other team is weak. Tinkoff was the 2nd to 4th strongest team (depending how you rate them vs Movistar, Astana) in all of those Tours.

I don´t see things like this. You must see clearly the problem...

It is very diferent to be in a GT to make a good result or a top 10, even a top 5, or being in a GT to Win. It is sooo diferent.

In every GT you have what, 2, 3, 4 favorites to win. They are the really guys to make it... So their teams can´t be like the others that are there to make a top 10...

In the last 3/4 years, the top candidates to win all GT are who??? Sky, Astana, Movistar and Tinkoff... You have in all this 3 GT´S just Horner... Otherwise is just this teams. In 12 gt´s this teams won 11.

Froome, Contador, Nibali, Aru, Quintana...

So the top guys, the WINNERS are from this teams, and to me, it is just a opinion, Tinkoff is clearly the weak of the 4... And yes, this is a big problem. I´m not saying that Tinkoff is a weak team, but compared to other teams, i don´t think they are so strong, and this make a diference when you are in a GT to win.

But, i always say the some, the others don´t have the fault that Contador don´t have a team like he should some of the years...

But i really wanted to see him just one year with a superb team to support him.

Having or not a super team makes a diference, sure... And we will see that in the 1 st stage of the vuelta, where Contador will be down to his rivals...

 

[Angliru]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

Thats not fair. His TdF team was very good in 2013,14,15,16. He was crap

Was Froome "crap" in the races he crashed out of or dnf due to injuries? How you can say he was "crap" in 2014-16 is beyond me. Maybe you can enlighten me to your way of thinking?

 

[Angliru]

Well, here it was his own stupidity. This is different than crashing because someone crashed in front of you, etc. The team prepared their season around TDF and their leader lost almost 3min to future winner in 2014 and then crashed because of own stupidity and then in 2016 he crashed again due to his poor bike-handling, threw a temper tantrum and quit after being too weak to hold Kreuzigers wheel. If thats not letting his team down then I dont know what is


The team, roster, and team owner didnt let him down. He let THEM down

Your bias is as advanced as mine, just opposite ends of the spectrum. I place absolutely no value in your opinion when it comes to anything related to Contador.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

I really don't think we've ever discussed this before, so this is enthralling.

LOL!! Yes tell us more!

 

[DanielSong39]

Contador is held to a higher standard than any other cyclist - the measuring sticks are his pre-ban performances, and Chris Froome.

It's fair to say that he has fallen miles short of those standards in the past five years.

Father time is undefeated. Chris Froome will probably suffer from a similar fate in the near future, unless he retires early.

 

[damian13ster]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

Thats not fair. His TdF team was very good in 2013,14,15,16. He was crap

Was Froome "crap" in the races he crashed out of or dnf due to injuries? How you can say he was "crap" in 2014-16 is beyond me. Maybe you can enlighten me to your way of thinking?

Dont remember the circumstances of Froome's Dauphine crash, but in Tour he was taken out. Thats quite different from crashing on your own from sheer stupidity (2014 Contador) or bike handling mistake (Contador 2016, and Froome 2016 also crashed, just with less consequences).

Isnt that obvious?

And yes, if that crash on descent with Nibali cost Froome Tour victory, I would have said that he let his team down

 

[DanielSong39]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

Thats not fair. His TdF team was very good in 2013,14,15,16. He was crap

Was Froome "crap" in the races he crashed out of or dnf due to injuries? How you can say he was "crap" in 2014-16 is beyond me. Maybe you can enlighten me to your way of thinking?

Dont remember the circumstances of Froome's Dauphine crash, but in Tour he was taken out. Thats quite different from crashing on your own from sheer stupidity (2014 Contador) or bike handling mistake (Contador 2016, and Froome 2016 also crashed, just with less consequences).

Isnt that obvious?

And yes, if that crash on descent with Nibali cost Froome Tour victory, I would have said that he let his team down

Froome crashed twice in Stage 5 of the cobblestone stage in 2014 Tour de France, causing him to abandon. And the crash that took him out in the 2015 Vuelta was clearly his fault.

 

[Angliru]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

Thats not fair. His TdF team was very good in 2013,14,15,16. He was crap

Was Froome "crap" in the races he crashed out of or dnf due to injuries? How you can say he was "crap" in 2014-16 is beyond me. Maybe you can enlighten me to your way of thinking?

Dont remember the circumstances of Froome's Dauphine crash, but in Tour he was taken out. Thats quite different from crashing on your own from sheer stupidity (2014 Contador) or bike handling mistake (Contador 2016, and Froome 2016 also crashed, just with less consequences).

Isnt that obvious?

And yes, if that crash on descent with Nibali cost Froome Tour victory, I would have said that he let his team down

As I stated earlier, you just can't see beyond the fog of hate that you have for Contador to recognize that his 2014 crash wasn't due to "stupidity" but due simply bad luck. No rider can know every dip in the roads of 2500 km grand tour. I believe your severe criticism of every Contador miscue is simply petty jealousy. Maybe he beat some fallen hero of your past and now you hold a grudge but your posting history is fine a example of someone that simply can't appreciate the awesome talent that Contador is. You have my sympathies. Maybe later in life you will reach a level of enlightenment where, when reviewing footage of his stellar career you will wonder why you wasted all those years blinded, wandering aimlessly in the darkness of your affliction.

 

[damian13ster]

Nah, the only dislike I have for Contador is because of his doping past.
But I am way closer to the truth than you are when it comes to judging his actual abilities.
And 2014 crash was solely due to his own stupidity. We had interviews from other cyclists saying that Contador tried to move up in the peleton on a dangerous road without both hands on the wheel. Doesnt really sound like an intelligent behaviour now, does it?

 

[Valv.Piti]

What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.