Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Flo if he doesn't make a good showing in the Dauphine, like in 2014, you can write him off for the Tour.

The Dauphine is always preparation for the larger goal of the Tour, but you're kidding yourself if you think Contador isn't in contention at the former he can still get good enough to be a serious contender in July.

He needs to be really good, which doensn't mean win the Dauphine, but very good yes.

He'll be good but he won't go all in for the victory, he'll take it easy or at least try to. Which means we won't see how good he is.
A good performance at the Dauphiné isn't necessary as long as he has good form.
Sure, go ahead and write him off when he performs below par at the Dauphiné. I'll be calm knowing he never intended to fight for the victory. Your choice.

 

[Valv.Piti]

So tell me why he radically would change his approach?

 

[Netserk]

If not for the crash, I think Alberto would at least have tried to counter Piti. Given how he even let Meintjes go, I think he clearly wasn't super-duper. Whether or not he would have maintained a gap from the top of the climbs to the finish, I don't know, but I don't think it's unreasonable to consider it a possibility.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

So tell me why he radically would change his approach?

He never went really deep at the Dauphiné in his best years.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

If not for the crash, I think Alberto would at least have tried to counter Piti. Given how he even let Meintjes go, I think he clearly wasn't super-duper. Whether or not he would have maintained a gap from the top of the climbs to the finish, I don't know, but I don't think it's unreasonable to consider it a possibility.

No one would think that's unreasonable except those who are desperate to talk Berto down.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

So tell me why he radically would change his approach?

He never went really deep at the Dauphiné in his best years.

Oh I know that, but I can't see why that would be an argument. He was guns blazing in Dauphine 2014 for example, that surely didn't seem to hamper him. And same story in 2016, just crashed out.

Wasn't he in super good shape or didn't he good deep? There is a quite big difference.

I don't believe you can be mediocre in Dauphine and be winning the Tour in this era. This is a time where you are as good as you were in your last race, I don't think coming unprepared to Dauphine or 'not going deep' (as in Contador not would race to his fullist against Froome and let him drop and humiliate him, lol) is the way to go.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

If not for the crash, I think Alberto would at least have tried to counter Piti. Given how he even let Meintjes go, I think he clearly wasn't super-duper. Whether or not he would have maintained a gap from the top of the climbs to the finish, I don't know, but I don't think it's unreasonable to consider it a possibility.

Exactly more or less what I've been saying. Totally reasonable assessment, hence the 'not too hurt'. If he was more hurt than that, he would surely just have been dropped.

 

[CTQ]

Re:

.Froome hides in South Africa for 3 months while Contador is racing. .

He left for South Africa after the Herald Sun Tour (1-5 February) and was seen on television by the roadside on 12 March during the Paris-Nice. It's not three months, is it?

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Contador needs to be very good at the Dauphine, the strongest rider of the race having been so at the Tour as well over past years, to be a credible contender for the title in July. I'm sure his team and staff know this.

Actually he will use Dauphiné just for training, so no, he won't be the strongest and doesn't need to be.

Flo if he doesn't make a good showing in the Dauphine, like in 2014, you can write him off for the Tour.

The Dauphine is always preparation for the larger goal of the Tour, but you're kidding yourself if you think Contador isn't in contention at the former he can still get good enough to be a serious contender in July.

He needs to be really good, which doensn't mean win the Dauphine, but very good yes.

She knows that, but saying that helps keeping down the expectations and should he crash In TdF and people will point towards Dauphine where he was beaten, the argument will be it was pure training and he would improve a lot between those two races like before the suspension.

pretty much this. references to pre-ban dauphine always come to the fore. your post is so much full of bitter truth, that I even wouldn't expect it to be responded if I were you.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I don't, most of the time she doesn't respond to those posts of mine, but I can't help myself commenting because I think she gets more asinine day by day and there's nothing done with it.The other day she predicted Contador would be dropped significanly on the climb because he 'didn't care' and 'was hurt', now she apparantly thinks that he indeed still was hurting quite a bit, but would've been able to smash it up the climb if at 100% (thats at least how I understand it). Thats how she deals with potentially disappointing results - being way too pessimistic before the fact, then way too biased after the fact.

Its the same thing with Dauphine, saying he really won't care, won't go deep, won't prepare and the only goal is TdF like pre-ban (which is pretty stupid considering the chances of crashing out again and how cycling works in this day and age - you won't magically be 15% better over a month anymore). Thats pretty much already preparing the reasons and excuses for not performing/if he crashes out.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Getting a mediocre result at the Dauphiné because he doesn't want to go deep =/= getting a mediocre result because he isn't in good shape. The first doesn't mean anything with regards to the TDF, so he can be mediocre at the Dauphiné and great at the TDF. I don't know why people don't understand that.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Valv.Piti, I usually don't respond to your posts because discussions with you are just like a revolving door, keeps going round and round and never gets anywhere. You may have noticed I mostly reply only when you start whining that I'm ignoring you.

Many people ignore me on here and I don't care at all, not sure why you care so much when I don't reply to your posts? It might be because with your posts in this thread you're just trying to get a reaction out of me?

 

[dacooley]

it's pretty simple. the best way to find out where you stand at compared to the other major contenders (froome, quintana, bardet etc.) is doing the dauphine in full gear which bertie did in 2013, 2014 and 2016. no training tests and sessions can replace the dauphine ridden in full force. it goes without saying it's just my assumption and the example of nibali making a huge leap between dauphine and tour in 2014 still stands out, but nibs has never been such a great one week rider as contador or froome.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Valv.Piti, I usually don't respond to your posts because discussions with you are just like a revolving door, keeps going round and round and never gets anywhere. You may have noticed I mostly reply only when you start whining that I'm ignoring you.

Many people ignore me on here and I don't care at all, not sure why you care so much when I don't reply to your posts? It might be because with your posts in this thread you're just trying to get a reaction out of me?

I think its because the truth hurts for you which is why I want you to respond.

But I feel the same way about you, so maybe we should just ignore each other, thats probably in the best interest of everyone. It just annoys me how quickly you are to get in extreme defense-mode when anyone is saying anything about AC that you don't agree on.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

she apparantly thinks that he indeed still was hurting quite a bit, but would've been able to smash it up the climb if at 100% (thats at least how I understand it).

Clearly you misunderstood my posts, even though I thought I was pretty clear. Stop putting words in my mouth. It annoyed me that you grabbed yesterday's result and presented it as evidence that you were right, Contador wasn't really hurt and just exaggerated the consequences of his crash yet again. To which I responded saying: we don't know how the crash affected him, maybe it didn't affect him much, maybe he would have been able to attack and ride away without it. The only thing we can conclude is that clearly he wasn't terribly hurt, else he would have done worse. I think I've made this point several times already, let this be the last time.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

she apparantly thinks that he indeed still was hurting quite a bit, but would've been able to smash it up the climb if at 100% (thats at least how I understand it).

Clearly you misunderstood my posts, even though I thought I was pretty clear. Stop putting words in my mouth. It annoyed me that you grabbed yesterday's result and presented it as evidence that you were right, Contador wasn't really hurt and just exaggerated the consequences of his crash yet again. To which I responded saying: we don't know how the crash affected him, maybe it didn't affect him much, maybe he would have been able to attack and ride away without it. The only thing we can conclude is that clearly he wasn't terribly hurt, else he would have done worse. I think I've made this point several times already, let this be the last time.

The only conclusion I can come up with if he was more than 'not too hurt' and still could follow Valverde would be that if he hadn't crashed, he would have won easily. But ok.

Anyways, If you actually care to read the posts, I didn't say one time I think he exaggerated. Many others did, I didn't. Thats when you started with your roll-eyes and condescending posts.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

it's pretty simple. the best way to find out where you stand at compared to the other major contenders (froome, quintana, bardet etc.) is doing the dauphine in full gear which bertie did in 2013, 2014 and 2016. no training tests and sessions can replace the dauphine ridden in full force. it goes without saying it's just my assumption and the example of nibali making a huge leap between dauphine and tour in 2014 still stands out, but nibs has never been such a great one week rider as contador or froome.

Ok mr. dacooley, I'm sure you're more of an expert on this subject than someone who's actually raced the Dauphiné several times.

I'm really looking forward to all the panicking fans and troll posts we'll see here in June when he performs below par. Mark my words, I'll be right here and I'll post something along the lines of: he warned us, not sure why you expected anything else!

 

[portugal11]

This thread looks more like "Valv.Piti vs LaFlorecita discussion thread"

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

This thread looks more like "Valv.Piti vs LaFlorecita discussion thread"

I know and I hate it. The Great One deserves better. I'm a bad fan

 

[Carols]

Re:

This thread looks more like "Valv.Piti vs LaFlorecita discussion thread"

No kidding. I'm putting the Valv on ignore right now. He is always trying to pick fights.....

 

[kobee]

Someone seems pretty upset that Contador is widely recognized as the best stage/gt rider of all time. And some keybord warrior from DK to question his build up seems pretty premature at best. And when cheap shots as falling in GT's etc is the best you can come up with to beat him you pretty much know your discussion is meaningless.

Curious to see Contador today to be honest, how strong he really is this year, or if father time/motivation has finally caught up with him or not over all these years. He looked really good yesterday following all of a beast form Valverde (seemingly) easily, he might or not have been at this limit, difficoult to say with certainty.

Today however should give us a nice pointer exactly how strong he is now as everyone will go flat out with everything they have, with or without excuses.

 

[rhubroma]

Objectively, I think it's fair to say, that in the Skybot era you need to be a really strong contender at the Dauphine to be in good enough shape to peak for the Tour. In 2014 Contador clearly followed this formula. By contrast getting smashed by Froome on the Dauphine climbs, when you know he will still be upping his game at the Tour, is a sure psychological defeat.

Last year when Froome and Porte dropped Contador, it was clear (crash or not) the latter was not going to beat them at the Tour. In fact Contador's Vuelta showed how he was at a level below the Tour favorites, who despite having raced the full French race, were better than him in Spain a month later.

So while it is true Contador doesn't need to win the Dauphine, he needs to be able to follow Froome and Porte on the MTFs. Contrary to what he says about the Dauphine, I'll bet he and his team will try to prepare him to do just that, otherwise July won't meet their expectations.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

it's pretty simple. the best way to find out where you stand at compared to the other major contenders (froome, quintana, bardet etc.) is doing the dauphine in full gear which bertie did in 2013, 2014 and 2016. no training tests and sessions can replace the dauphine ridden in full force. it goes without saying it's just my assumption and the example of nibali making a huge leap between dauphine and tour in 2014 still stands out, but nibs has never been such a great one week rider as contador or froome.

Ok mr. dacooley, I'm sure you're more of an expert on this subject than someone who's actually raced the Dauphiné several times.

I'm really looking forward to all the panicking fans and troll posts we'll see here in June when he performs below par. Mark my words, I'll be right here and I'll post something along the lines of: he warned us, not sure why you expected anything else!

what i never ceaze to be suprised about is you always prefer to see the side of the medal you really like (need). seemingly you are just not able to treat alberto critically in any aspect. respect for bertie's opponents has never been yours which is a real problem. with reference to the dauphine, i was intentionally making an emphasis on my point being an assumption. none of us knows how deep ac had to go in 2013, 2014 and 2016, how he measures his own room for improvement in june, the way his training methods changed pre- and post ban and so on... we are laying our opinions so no need to make fun of one's. notwithstanding, the argument of bertie being able to improve his form tremendously between the dauphine and tour is a great schield as there are 2 options remaining. case 1: bertie does well in the dauphine => wow, he's never been good in this race, so the tour's almost in the bag. case 2: bertie gets dropped by froome => no need to panic as he has always been crap in this stupid race, bring on the tour. i presume that's what valv.pity was getting at.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Once again: his form at the Dauphiné has to be reasonably good, his performance doesn't have to be because he might take it easy.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Once again: his form at the Dauphiné has to be reasonably good, his performance doesn't have to be because he might take it easy.

And you seriously believe that a ruthless competitor such as Contador will do that?