Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[El Pistolero]

So if Froome and Quintana were treated the same way as Sagan, both of them would have been disqualified by now.

 

[rick james]

no, they both lost balance on a climb, Sagan tried to elbow an opponent off the road

 

[hrotha]

Even if all those incidents had been intentional, they're not comparable. Sprints have their own section in the rules.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Looking forward to Vuelta 2017 with Contador, Yo-Yo Froome and Dumoulin

 

[miguelindurain111]

Re:

Great posts by a lot of people in this thread. Especially the post of Hitch makes me a little bit sad. He should have won at least one post-ban and he will now be remembered as a worse cyclist than Froome because of his crashes on '14 and '16.
And as Hitch says, cycling is a brutal and cruel sport. And I also think that Contador is broken mentally after Tour and Vuelta '16 (he crashed twice in Tour '16 and abandoned because of it and couldn't recover for Vuelta in enough time) and P-N '17. He looked very good for 2017 but that last stage in P-N '17 just broke him mentally. After finishing 2nd in Catalunya and PV as well (the latter with a small gap) maybe he was totally done mentally and just gave up.

True champions aren't mentally that weak.

 

[Valv.Piti]

So its definitely over now, he finally got to show his hand with good preparation. It isn't surprising to me he chooses to continue to fight for GC, lose a bunch of time and potentially win a stage isn't what Contador does. He is better than that, top-5 still isn't unrealistic.

This Tour can potentially be the end of the Sanchez-Purito-Contador-Valverde era that was so great and the reason I rediscovered cycling again. Thats pretty sad to think about, Valverde crashing and Contador obviously lacking quite a bit against fully prepared riders at their respective peaks. That has been the pattern for a couple of years now and coupled with age and such, it isn't super surprising to see him go down like that. It reminded me a bit of Galibier 2011 when you also had the impression he was a long way from his absolute best.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

So its definitely over now, he finally got to show his hand with good preparation. It isn't surprising to me he chooses to continue to fight for GC, lose a bunch of time and potentially win a stage isn't what Contador does. He is better than that, top-5 still isn't unrealistic.

This Tour can potentially be the end of the Sanchez-Purito-Contador-Valverde era that was so great and the reason I rediscovered cycling again. Thats pretty sad to think about, Valverde crashing and Contador obviously lacking quite a bit against fully prepared riders at their respective peaks. That has been the pattern for a couple of years now and coupled with age and such, it isn't super surprising to see him go down like that. It reminded me a bit of Galibier 2011 when you also had the impression he was a long way from his absolute best.

Is a potential top-5 worth more than a stage win for such a big champion ?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

So its definitely over now, he finally got to show his hand with good preparation. It isn't surprising to me he chooses to continue to fight for GC, lose a bunch of time and potentially win a stage isn't what Contador does. He is better than that, top-5 still isn't unrealistic.

This Tour can potentially be the end of the Sanchez-Purito-Contador-Valverde era that was so great and the reason I rediscovered cycling again. Thats pretty sad to think about, Valverde crashing and Contador obviously lacking quite a bit against fully prepared riders at their respective peaks. That has been the pattern for a couple of years now and coupled with age and such, it isn't super surprising to see him go down like that. It reminded me a bit of Galibier 2011 when you also had the impression he was a long way from his absolute best.

Is a potential top-5 worth more than a stage win for such a big champion ?

Apparently it is to Contador which is totally understandable. It would just seems totally weird to see him lose time on purpose on one of the upcoming days (assuming he wants to win in the Pyrenees and/or Alps), rather try to see how well he is feeling and considering he thinks he was weakened after the crash, its a pretty easy decision IMO. Him saying that and then proceeding to give up time wouldn't make sense. Losing time on purpose and then winning a stage would be decent, but it isn't a guarantee either. There are lots of good stage hunters out there, but the GC-days have also been raced very hard so far so maybe he won't even make it in the end?

IMO, fight, animate and impact the race or at least try to. If is becomes obvious he doesn't got it on stage 12 again, well then yes, a stage would be better than fighting for 5-10 in GC or whatever.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

I don't mind Bertie (he's a dog lover so whats not to like?) its just the fact that some of his fans, and its mostly the ones that want him to retie because he doesn't win anymore that get to me, they think he has the right to win every race he turns up at

I don't think it has to do with winning, it has to do with the unique brand that the person is known for. Bertie was not an Indurian or EddieM etc. He had his own style of riding and of animating races. To not see that brand anymore from him does not make anyone less a fan but it makes it difficult to recognize the person. One, we miss the brand, second we do not want Bertie associated with any other brand. Bertie winning through say the mechanical Power-Meter Froome style is strange.

Perhaps he should have changed, perhaps he should not, perhaps he could not, just not in his DNA. And perhaps it was a weakness on his part that he could not change. In today's world where you have to reinvent yourself every two years, if you cannot change you get chopped.

Baffling though that Froome has survived the last 5 years with literally the same style, perhaps cycling needs to shape up, and perhaps it will. I think this might be his last life cycle year, technology changes in cycling will make life cycle shorter as we progress.

Nothing is changing for Froome. Just more GT wins. You used the word DNA, that's exactly Contador problem, he does not have the genetic gifts Froome has. Take a long hard look at there physiques, it's plain to see.

I don't agree with this, just DNA enhancers and a whole lot of marginal gains.

Froome is a created labratory rat with a US Postal-blue print in his hand. There is litterary zero of own talent there besides what comes through the medics.

typical fanboish romantics based on admiration for the beloved rider and vitriol hate for his most principal opponent.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I hope he makes the right decision. I understand that it's hard for him to change his attitude but I think if he just struggles on to an anonymous 5th, 6th or 7th place that no one will remember he'll later regret not aiming for stages instead.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I think he potentially will be remembered much more if he manages to find himself again and animate the race than a, in the grand scheme of things, a pretty meaningless stage victory. I mean, thats not really impacting the 'real' race. I have no doubt he prefers the latter, and try to see how high he can climb GC, until its definitely proven that Chat was his real level. Which I don't believe it is, but I don't think its THAT much better.

 

[miguelindurain111]

Re:

I think he potentially will be remembered much more if he manages to find himself again and animate the race than a, in the grand scheme of things, a pretty meaningless stage victory. I mean, thats not really impacting the 'real' race. I have no doubt he prefers the latter, and try to see how high he can climb GC, until its definitely proven that Chat was his real level. Which I don't believe it is, but I don't think its THAT much better.

Victory fans disagree.

 

[LaFlorecita]

He has a big ego, like all great champions. So of course he'd prefer to have an actual "impact" on the race, but in the long run, when memories slowly fade away I think a stage victory would mean more to him. The chance that such a long range attack actually leads to something is very small anyway and we'd mainly see him clinging onto the back of the favorites group until he drops. For his confidence I think it would be better if he could finally feel what it's like to be "strong" again, how it feels to ride everyone off his wheel or make them suffer, even if it's versus the usual stage hunters.
But it would require him to change his attitude. I don't expect he will and that makes it more frustrating.

 

[Forever The Best]

Hopefully Contador and Nibali both ride the Giro next year and do an alliance in a stage where they do an all-out attack with one of them winning the whole race. Like Magni and Coppi did against Nencini on stage 20 of 1955 Giro _O_

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I think he potentially will be remembered much more if he manages to find himself again and animate the race than a, in the grand scheme of things, a pretty meaningless stage victory. I mean, thats not really impacting the 'real' race. I have no doubt he prefers the latter, and try to see how high he can climb GC, until its definitely proven that Chat was his real level. Which I don't believe it is, but I don't think its THAT much better.

Victory fans disagree.

This hasn't got anything to do with being a "victory fan". I'll support him whatever he decides to do and however much or little success he has. I genuinely think he'd be better off putting aside his ego and accepting a different role in this race. But he'll continue torturing himself for no purpose like the masochist he is. I hope someone close to him can talk some sense into him.

 

[miguelindurain111]

Re: Re:

I think he potentially will be remembered much more if he manages to find himself again and animate the race than a, in the grand scheme of things, a pretty meaningless stage victory. I mean, thats not really impacting the 'real' race. I have no doubt he prefers the latter, and try to see how high he can climb GC, until its definitely proven that Chat was his real level. Which I don't believe it is, but I don't think its THAT much better.

Victory fans disagree.

This hasn't got anything to do with being a "victory fan". I'll support him whatever he decides to do and however much or little success he has. I genuinely think he'd be better off putting aside his ego and accepting a different role in this race. But he'll continue torturing himself for no purpose like the masochist he is. I hope someone close to him can talk some sense into him.

So you are not a victory fan but for some reason you rather prefer him to be a stage winner than The Animator

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

I think he potentially will be remembered much more if he manages to find himself again and animate the race than a, in the grand scheme of things, a pretty meaningless stage victory. I mean, thats not really impacting the 'real' race. I have no doubt he prefers the latter, and try to see how high he can climb GC, until its definitely proven that Chat was his real level. Which I don't believe it is, but I don't think its THAT much better.

Victory fans disagree.

This hasn't got anything to do with being a "victory fan". I'll support him whatever he decides to do and however much or little success he has. I genuinely think he'd be better off putting aside his ego and accepting a different role in this race. But he'll continue torturing himself for no purpose like the masochist he is. I hope someone close to him can talk some sense into him.

So you are not a victory fan but for some reason you rather prefer him to be a stage winner than The Animator

Generally the two are linked.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

I think he potentially will be remembered much more if he manages to find himself again and animate the race than a, in the grand scheme of things, a pretty meaningless stage victory. I mean, thats not really impacting the 'real' race. I have no doubt he prefers the latter, and try to see how high he can climb GC, until its definitely proven that Chat was his real level. Which I don't believe it is, but I don't think its THAT much better.

Victory fans disagree.

This hasn't got anything to do with being a "victory fan". I'll support him whatever he decides to do and however much or little success he has. I genuinely think he'd be better off putting aside his ego and accepting a different role in this race. But he'll continue torturing himself for no purpose like the masochist he is. I hope someone close to him can talk some sense into him.

So you are not a victory fan but for some reason you rather prefer him to be a stage winner than The Animator

Is coming 5th really animating the race? I guess it depends on how, but in my book winning a stage would be a better achievement. I'm unsure which would option could potentially give Berto a bigger moral boost. Winning a stage is a victory, but it perhaps also signifies that he's perhaps not good enough in GC any longer. On the other hand, it's not a victory to come 5th, but at least it would show that Berto is still 'somewhat' competitive in a GT.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

So you are not a victory fan but for some reason you rather prefer him to be a stage winner than The Animator

I would like to see him win a stage while animating the race.
I think you're confusing two things. It's one thing to support him only when he wins (i.e. a victory fan), it's a whole other thing to support him no matter what but wish the very best for him (i.e. me wanting him to go for stages instead)

I must say though that his role as an "animator" is greatly exaggerated. Thrice he's pulled off an incredibly exciting and important long attack in a GT (Alpe d'Huez 2011, Fuente Dé 2012, Formigal 2016). He's also tried and failed many times (2013, 2015). It's like a flip of the coin what we'll see this time. I doubt he'll get anything out of it for himself regardless, besides perhaps some satisfaction because he had an impact on the race.

 

[miguelindurain111]

Re: Re:

I think he potentially will be remembered much more if he manages to find himself again and animate the race than a, in the grand scheme of things, a pretty meaningless stage victory. I mean, thats not really impacting the 'real' race. I have no doubt he prefers the latter, and try to see how high he can climb GC, until its definitely proven that Chat was his real level. Which I don't believe it is, but I don't think its THAT much better.

Victory fans disagree.

This hasn't got anything to do with being a "victory fan". I'll support him whatever he decides to do and however much or little success he has. I genuinely think he'd be better off putting aside his ego and accepting a different role in this race. But he'll continue torturing himself for no purpose like the masochist he is. I hope someone close to him can talk some sense into him.

So you are not a victory fan but for some reason you rather prefer him to be a stage winner than The Animator

Generally the two are linked.

Perhaps, but the context was Valv.Piti's
post.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

All the pretty pixels being so sweetly spilled notwithstanding, it's a little early for an eulogy, folks. He could still do something here. And give Froome a run for his money at the Vuelta.

With the palmares he already has, he needed to win a Tour. Or maybe a worlds/ olympics/ a one day race.

Not a Vuelta.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

All the pretty pixels being so sweetly spilled notwithstanding, it's a little early for an eulogy, folks. He could still do something here. And give Froome a run for his money at the Vuelta.

With the palmares he already has, he needed to win a Tour. Or maybe a worlds/ olympics/ a one day race.

Not a Vuelta.

Maybe another Milano-Torino or, at least, one with a profile close to that one.

 

[DanielSong39]

If he wants to try another ambush, Stages 14 and 15 would be the times to try. I would recommend 14.

19 is another possibility but doubtful.

 

[Jelantik]

Any one hears whether he signs the contract with Trek yet? I thought CN reported it should be on the first rest day?

 

[Angliru]

Re:

No matter what happens in the rest of the Tour and in the coming year(s), Alberto Contador will always be my hero and inspiration. Andy and Team Saxo Bank may have drawn me into cycling, but Alberto (especially from Tour 2011 onwards) kept me in cycling, and made me evolve from a july fan to watching cycling of every kind. As I wrote in the race thread, he is a true legend. Riding with his heart, not his calculator. I, as well as you, all of us can feel privileged and honored that we have had the chance to enjoy his riding while he is still active!

All of the above (except the Andy part ). In my decades of enjoying this sport I've never had a rider that captured my attention for so long in the way Contador has. I truly suffer when he doesn't meet his own lofty expectations, I guess I have a deep emotional stake in his performances. He's been my "home team" since 2007!