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Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

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Sciatic

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Leinster said:
You couldn't call the 2015 Giro "conservative." Yes, he made most of his time over Aru and Landa in the TT and had to defend from then on, but he was launching attack after attack on them on every mountain stage until they finally cracked him on Finestre, by which time he had enough of a lead that it was too late.
Click to expand...
Loved that there was drama on every mountain stage ‘cause he was always so outnumbered. He even made losing time on Finestre exciting, especially since that’s the first time I’d ever seen the climb in a race.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

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Sciatic said:
Loved that there was drama on every mountain stage ‘cause he was always so outnumbered. He even made losing time on Finestre exciting, especially since that’s the first time I’d ever seen the climb in a race.
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My favorite single moment is Monte Ologno. Contador had no reason to attack, but Landa had a mechanical and Contador decided to literally nuke the first meter of that climb.
 
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lenric

lenric

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Well, I don't think Contador ever was "conservative". Even in his peak years. He attacked whenever he wanted irrespective of his advantage.
For sure, one might argue he was conservative at his 2010 Tour, but I find it kind of misleading, as I think it was just Schleck that was really impressive over there.
 
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McEwen2006

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Carl0880 said:
I think what makes it intriguing is having 2 riders that are dominant, to where they go a mano v mano battle, where they both try to destroy the other. Then something like the 19 Giro, where a upstart takes advantage of the feud of 2 riders and then that puts the 2 riders forcing to be more aggressive.


Now as far as the topic about Contador's impressive levels (I am using this term literally) I dont necessarily rank his 2009 Tour as number 1, because his competition was not nearly as strong as some of the other grand tours. In 09 you had a almost 40 Lance, Bradly Wiggins when he first was transforming into a stage racer. Also in the Top 10 if I recall right was Le Mevel, Casar, Vande Velde had his best Tour finish. Plus the route wasn't very exciting as the previous years. I only thing that exhibited how strong his level that day was his TT win over Cancellara.

To me, his most impressive Level was the 11 Giro. HE was so far ahead of everyone, he was gifting stages (Which helped win the 12 Vuelta with the gift to Tiralongo.)

I think his level at the 07 Tour was most impressive of the 3 TDFs win, because he was able to Stop and Start so many times, it just Rasmussen was on the same climbing level as him.

The Giro 2015 is so hard to judge because he crashed in it twice and didn't win a stage if I recall right, but he did have 2 fight off the 2 headed Astana monster. I would say his level was better in the 2012 Vuelta. Its played off of the De Fuente victory that he was that good, but Purito was flying that Vuelta, and as we all know, Purito and Valverde always find their best form for the GT at the Vuelta.

So I would right now go with my list being
  1. Giro 2011
  2. Tour 2007
  3. Tour 2009
  4. Tour 2010
  5. Vuelta 2014
  6. Vuelta 2012
  7. Giro 2015
  8. Vuelta 2008
  9. Giro 2008
Click to expand...

Tour 2009 was pretty good level-wise IMO, even though Evans and Menchov flopped big tome.

The top 10 was :
  1. Contador
  2. A.Schleck
  3. Armstrong
  4. Wiggins
  5. F.Schleck
  6. Kloden
  7. Nibali
  8. VandeVelde
  9. Kreuziger
  10. Le Mevel

I's say this looks like a decent enough top 10 (the top 7 is as good as it gets), even if you compare it to the Giro 2011.

What tips it in Tour 2009's favour IMO was Contador's TT win in Annecy. I know he beat Cancellara thanks to the little climb, but that was still a phenomenal performance.
 
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McEwen2006

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lenric said:
Well, I don't think Contador ever was "conservative". Even in his peak years. He attacked whenever he wanted irrespective of his advantage.
For sure, one might argue he was conservative at his 2010 Tour, but I find it kind of misleading, as I think it was just Schleck that was really impressive over there.
Click to expand...

Yeah exactly. Contador attacked 4 times in the Tour 2010 (Mende once, Ax 3 Domaines twice, Tourmalet once), or 5 times if we count the Port de Balès climb. I think he only looked conservative in Morzine-Avoriaz and La Madeleine, but he had pretty bad legs in Morzine and due to this maybe he was just happy to manage to follow Andy in La Madeleine.
 
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red_flanders said:
The guy was always just a bike racer who seemed to love it. Such a contrast to the snore-fest tactics he was often dealing with. I miss Alberto!
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Alot of those races were dull because he was a fearful attacker. Most guys could probably only manage one response to his moves and then they'd still have to be strong enough to hold on or get dropped while the camera was on their tortured faces...
Better to lay low and let a team effort bring him back than look weak.
 
red_flanders

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Oldermanish said:
Alot of those races were dull because he was a fearful attacker. Most guys could probably only manage one response to his moves and then they'd still have to be strong enough to hold on or get dropped while the camera was on their tortured faces...
Better to lay low and let a team effort bring him back than look weak.
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Oddly the folks I’m thinking of used the same boring tactics whether he was there or not... :D
 
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Back in 2012 when I got into cycling it was Contador and Froome I always liked. I know Froome gets lots of criticism but I think an unfair amount is towards him rather than the team itself. Contador was always the best one to watch, I remember his win on the Angliru in his last Vuelta was one of the my favorite stages ever and I was so happy for him.
 
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McEwen2006

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Fyr3 said:
Back in 2012 when I got into cycling it was Contador and Froome I always liked. I know Froome gets lots of criticism but I think an unfair amount is towards him rather than the team itself. Contador was always the best one to watch, I remember his win on the Angliru in his last Vuelta was one of the my favorite stages ever and I was so happy for him.
Click to expand...

I actually think it has more to do with the team. Those who don't like Froome probably didn't like Wiggins either.

I don't hate Froome anyway, mentioning that he went from an average rider to a world-class rider all of a sudden in the 2011 summer is just a fact. Good for him though, he will be remembered as one of the strongest cyclists of his generation.
 
perico

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Carl0880 said:
I think what makes it intriguing is having 2 riders that are dominant, to where they go a mano v mano battle, where they both try to destroy the other. Then something like the 19 Giro, where a upstart takes advantage of the feud of 2 riders and then that puts the 2 riders forcing to be more aggressive.


Now as far as the topic about Contador's impressive levels (I am using this term literally) I dont necessarily rank his 2009 Tour as number 1, because his competition was not nearly as strong as some of the other grand tours. In 09 you had a almost 40 Lance, Bradly Wiggins when he first was transforming into a stage racer. Also in the Top 10 if I recall right was Le Mevel, Casar, Vande Velde had his best Tour finish. Plus the route wasn't very exciting as the previous years. I only thing that exhibited how strong his level that day was his TT win over Cancellara.

To me, his most impressive Level was the 11 Giro. HE was so far ahead of everyone, he was gifting stages (Which helped win the 12 Vuelta with the gift to Tiralongo.)

I think his level at the 07 Tour was most impressive of the 3 TDFs win, because he was able to Stop and Start so many times, it just Rasmussen was on the same climbing level as him.

The Giro 2015 is so hard to judge because he crashed in it twice and didn't win a stage if I recall right, but he did have 2 fight off the 2 headed Astana monster. I would say his level was better in the 2012 Vuelta. Its played off of the De Fuente victory that he was that good, but Purito was flying that Vuelta, and as we all know, Purito and Valverde always find their best form for the GT at the Vuelta.

So I would right now go with my list being
  1. Giro 2011
  2. Tour 2007
  3. Tour 2009
  4. Tour 2010
  5. Vuelta 2014
  6. Vuelta 2012
  7. Giro 2015
  8. Vuelta 2008
  9. Giro 2008
Click to expand...

Van de Velde finished 4th at the TDF the year prior, and would’ve been Garmin’s undisputed leader in 2009 had he not cracked a vertebrae in his back at that year’s Giro. Sastre finished in 15th that year as well. Really the biggest name missing was Valverde
 
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perico

perico

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roundabout said:
Menchov, Sastre and Leipheimer were doubling up from the Giro though.

And Basso and Sanchez were also missing.
Click to expand...

Leipheimer crashed out before the mtns anyway. The top 4 prerace favorites wouldn’t have changed had everyone targeted the race. The biggest change was that Evans just flopped. Bertie, Andy, and Lance all finished (at least on the road in regards to Lance) in the Top 5. Wiggins surprised, but he was hardly a weak fluke. VDB confirmed it as well over the next few years.

You’re right about Basso, but he never really showed at the TdF after his ban. The only weak link in the Top 10 to me was LeMevel.
 
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Cookster15

Cookster15

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Yeh, I put Conti's 2009 TdF win as his top performance. The Tour nearly always has the strongest fields that most sponsors, teams and riders target compared to the Giro and Vuelta which are generally at a lower level. Also remember at 2009 TdF Contador was riding against his own team then with Lance the man. Then to beat Cancellara in the Annecy TT was amazing.

2011 Giro was Contador's next best IMO. He played with them. But everything after his ban was less dominant. Then he relied less on pure power and more on tactical courage. The 2011 TdF was Contador's last grand tour before serving his ban. Even then he did some amazing stuff. Struggled in the Pyrenees with crash effects but attacked on stages 16, 17 and 19 to the Alpe and then rode an impressive stage 20 TT. Whatever you thought of Alberto you could never doubt his courage.

2007 TdF was Contador's 3rd most impressive in my books. Still only 24, it was the breakthrough that truly announced his freakish talent. Not sure what to make of his 2008 Giro win. I simply cannot believe any human being can be "sitting on a beach", unexpectedly get called up to ride a grand Tour then win it? A bit of hype and exaggeration there I'd say.

ps - glad this thread was bumped the entire forum has been asleep since the Vuelta and the lingering concern over the pandemic occupying everyone's mind.
 
roundabout

roundabout

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perico said:
Leipheimer crashed out before the mtns anyway. The top 4 prerace favorites wouldn’t have changed had everyone targeted the race. The biggest change was that Evans just flopped. Bertie, Andy, and Lance all finished (at least on the road in regards to Lance) in the Top 5. Wiggins surprised, but he was hardly a weak fluke. VDB confirmed it as well over the next few years.

You’re right about Basso, but he never really showed at the TdF after his ban. The only weak link in the Top 10 to me was LeMevel.
Click to expand...

Leipheimer was 3rd out of the GC favorites after 1 ITT and 1 mountain range, but your description of crashing out before the mountains is a very good view of the awful 2009 route.

Just in terms of the optics without getting into details of the performances, if the previous year winner, one of the few multiple* GT winners active at that point and a rider who finished <1 minute behind in 2 GTs had all targeted the race from the start, the win would have been more remembered.

*I think the courts have not ruled in favor of Heras at that point
 
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