Alberto Contador suspended until August 2012 (loses all results July 2010 - Jan 2012)

[LaFlorecita]

What happened to the comparison of other cases with infected meat? How come they came out as not guilty but Berto does? Where's the difference?

Spain vs. Mexico and China

 

[El Pistolero]

Contador never had a brain tumour.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Honestly, I think this decision sets a very dangerous precedent for cycling:

In essence if a rider fails a dope test, all he has to do is ignore it, carry on riding (and earning), keep appealing, keep getting his CAS date put back (with UCI agreement it seems) until nearing the end of the two year sanction, then bam....a poxy six month ban....great....well done CAS!

If the UCI wants you racing, then that's exactly how it works. CAS at least did the right thing. The issue is with the UCI, not so much CAS. There's no way clenbuterol gets in your system by accident. None. This is exactly why the UCI should be forbidden from running anti-doping efforts.

There are other riders who have failed for Clen, and/ or claimed contaminated supplements who haven't had the financial clout that Contdador has, or the unqualified support of their federation, and guess what....they got their full 2 year bans. Suspended from date of fail, and no riding until appeal process was over.

This result makes a mockery of clean cycling.

The final verdict was about as good as it can get when the UCI wants Contador racing. Again, Contador is just a lying, cheating actor in this drama. Your problems lie with the UCI and to some extent the IOC. The IOC welcomes these kinds of charades.

 

[hrotha]

So...let me get this straight

They let Armstrong walk, even with all the evidence and testimonies against him.
And they give Contador a 2 year suspension, even when the document says, and I quote "In the Panel’s opinion, on the basis of the evidence adduced, the presence of clenbuterol was more likely caused by the ingestion of a contaminated food supplement."

It's like letting a mass murderer walk even with 10 eye witnesses. But convicting a truck driver for 10 years after somebody threw himself in front of his truck.

Don't be silly, those "they" are not the same people.

 

[straydog]

Contador never had a brain tumour.

my bad....cerebral hemorrhage....

 

[LaFlorecita]

Oh dear lord....your naivety is actually quite sweet and endearing....maybe try google...or you know maybe try actually following cycling for a bit before joining a cycling forum.

Actually I do follow cycling. Hadn't expected that one right?

Ok...his supposed "allergies" are relevant for many reasons including any TUE's he has (popular anti allergen TUE's for example predisnone, salbutamol) and also as a potential excuse for any adverse analyticals....in case you didn't know clenbuterol is medicinally used for...wait for it....asthma and bronchial allergic reactions...who would have guessed that?

Okay that's a fair point. But you do need to stop acting as if I'm mentally challenged because I'm not.

Go back through twitter to after the 2009 tour and his subsequent interviews to see his snarky side...wow...is google really that complicated now?

Yup. He has never made snarky remarks on Twitter.

And to the last bolded part....I genuinely have no idea what you think you mean....but then again neither probably do you.

I do, but I won't bother explaining as you're ignorant as ****.

Listen...get some tissues...stop whining and maybe watch some cycling....god maybe even ride a bike!

Lol I ride a bike everyday you know.

 

[rhubroma]

Really?? He hasn't claimed conspiracy theories??

And his allergies have never been mentioned have they? And he's never been snarky on twitter has he? And no one has ever mentioned the brain tumour thing? And attacking after chaingate was such a sportsmanlike thing to do. Go Alberto!

So to sum up, it's ok to dope....as long as you are a nice guy!

Wow moral relativism fixes everything doesn't it.

No wonder our sport has such a bad name when people share this kind of view. Next time you post, honestly, think of it like using the bathroom...get up, look back, feel pride if you want....and then flush!

Peace

Nobody has made such wild claims. Whereas your reading of the situation might be an entertaining diversion to this thread, though it is factual nonsense. That Alberto doped is no more commendable than Lance's illicit methods, but what is important is the double-standard these cases have evidenced. As well as the fact that LA was protected by the very same institution that has hypocritically pursued Contador with every means at its disposal to impose a ban on him. Herein lies the true nature of the perversion.

That LA is also a world class a-hole in a world that's got many world class a-holes in power positions are details, which only makes Alberto's fate all the more grotesquely paradoxical. But the actual justice of his condemnation is not what's being questioned here – not by me at least; just all the squalor of the sordid theater in which the application of such justice has been performed.

Lastly only the moralist can be a moral relativist, which is a role you seem to be playing here, whereas only one with an eye focused upon the obliquity and acerbity of the motive power behind the events can only be struck by the perversion that’s in these respective outcomes.

Peace

 

[LaFlorecita]

my bad....cerebral hemorrhage....

Well done! There is a significant difference. Get your facts straight before you start an argument.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Ohhhh nooooo

 

[LaFlorecita]

Well if you look at the 4 mexican footballers they tested positive for clenbuterol at the Gold Cup but Mexico have a problem with contaminated beef containing clenbuterol and WADA recognizes this. The same applies in China. Just look at these 2 stories:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...ol-case-against-mexican-soccer-players_195167

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6...yer-Ovtcharov-cleared-of-Clenbuterol-use.aspx

That's also mentioned in the CAS ruling. Spain doesn't have a problem with those things, other parts of the world have. And there hasn't been any other sportsman that has tested positive in Europe.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Ohhhh nooooo

Awww.... Don't make me sad again.

 

[Paco_P]

This contaminated supplement has really suckerpunched all of us. Supposedly it was ruled out at RFEC. But on what basis?I guess because Bert said so, which doesn't mean much. I missed that, and I guess everyone else did, too.

But is it really the most likely explanation? Again, remember Bert tested negative the day before. So he had to have taken the supplement one day and one day only during the Tour. It has been estimated that he ingested about 500 ng of CB in order to account for the level found in his urine. Even if he took an extremely small dose of supplement, say 1 mg,, that would correspond to 0.05%. I don’t know how likely it is that CB at that dose would turn up in a supplement.

This seems to me a place where Python’s fears of increased testing sensitivity are justified. I don’t think inspected meat will result in CB positives, but supplements might be a different story. If the CAS verdict reflects what really happened, Bert was just very unfortunate to be tested with a highly sensitive procedure. We might be reaching a point where supplements that have been conventionally considered clean can be found to be contaminated.

If Bert really did get CB from a supplement, he should know what he took. He probably doesn’t have a sample from the original batch, but he could get other samples of the same stuff and have them tested. If he could show that a lot of these samples test positive at a very low level, below the level conventionally detected, he might have a basis for an appeal. It might turn out that a large % of these supplements are contaminated in this sense. Then it becomes almost like inspected meat having detectable contamination.

At the very least, I think Bert should have been given a reduced sentence, one year, not two. Because taking a supplement with extremely low CB contamination is not much different from eating contaminated meat. One can argue that he is at fault, but not significant fault if the level is that low.

In the ruling (somewhere near the end) they address specifically the reduced sentence idea - and essentially say that the rules offer no flexibility - they use the word "proportionality" - they say it is not possible.

In fact, the back-dating of the sanction appears to be a workaround.

 

[DirtyWorks]

So...let me get this straight

They let Armstrong walk, even with all the evidence and testimonies against him.
And they give Contador a 2 year suspension, even when the document says, and I quote "In the Panel’s opinion, on the basis of the evidence adduced, the presence of clenbuterol was more likely caused by the ingestion of a contaminated food supplement."

It's like letting a mass murderer walk even with 10 eye witnesses. But convicting a truck driver for 10 years after somebody threw himself in front of his truck.

But in the U.S. it was at a stage where the investigation could be bought pre-judicial system. CAS is the Swiss justice system to some extent. The judicial process had to be completed. Clenbuterol does not occur naturally, so a 2 year ban seems the norm. I don't know all the regulations, so someone can correct me if I've blatantly mischaracterized something.

If the UCI were out of the anti-doping process, Armstrong would have been processed for AAF's a long time ago and the record of wins would be a great deal less. Since the UCI, like all IOC sports is allowed to both promote the sport and run anti-doping, it seems Wonderboy bought most of his wins. And that's okay by IOC standards.

Really, your outrage should be pointed at the Anti-doping system as it is run. It's a farce.

 

[zigmeister]

Typical stupid media writer. Can't even understand the difference between anabolic steroids and a beta2 antagonist.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/06/sport/cycling-contador-cas-ban/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

 

[DirtyWorks]

Well if you look at the 4 mexican footballers they tested positive for clenbuterol at the Gold Cup but Mexico have a problem with contaminated beef containing clenbuterol and WADA recognizes this. The same applies in China. Just look at these 2 stories:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...ol-case-against-mexican-soccer-players_195167

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6...yer-Ovtcharov-cleared-of-Clenbuterol-use.aspx

Gooner,

Let the meat explanation die. It's as bad as Tyler Hamilton's vanishing twin. You are being lied to with that pathetic excuse.

In both Mexico and China Clenbuterol in the meat production system is widespread. In the EU it is not because the regulatory system actually works in the EU.

 

[Escarabajo]

It was the UCI / WADA the responsible for the 1 year delay on this case.

Along with Contador also.

 

[armchairclimber]

Well, I've been absent from these forums since Vuelta time. I have to say that I'm glad that this whole tawdry affair is over. It has been a terrible episode for the sport. I'm glad that Contador has been banned and I hope that the fine is substantial on top of the loss of prize money.

It may be the case that he was just one of many cheaters but for him to be banned sends out a very clear message not just to other riders, but to teams and national governing bodies.

I look forward to seeing tours with no super-human performances. I want to be able to believe what I'm seeing.

I'd rather not see Contador riding again....it's a shame, because I loved watching him climb.

 

[pmcg76]

Really?? He hasn't claimed conspiracy theories??

And his allergies have never been mentioned have they? And he's never been snarky on twitter has he? And no one has ever mentioned the brain tumour thing? And attacking after chaingate was such a sportsmanlike thing to do. Go Alberto!

So to sum up, it's ok to dope....as long as you are a nice guy!

Wow moral relativism fixes everything doesn't it.

No wonder our sport has such a bad name when people share this kind of view. Next time you post, honestly, think of it like using the bathroom...get up, look back, feel pride if you want....and then flush!

Peace

Did I say it was ok to dope anywhere, no. I look as all dopers as equal. I dont get all wound up by someguy testing positive or making a comeback or whatever. I am well aware that the line between a dirty confirmed doper and a clean angellic non-doper is usually only an unlcuky positive test. At the same time I am not prone to accusing people without the slightest shred of evidence and dont go for the everyone dopes mantra.

However, when any doper behaves in the manner of Armstrong, then that gives me a lot more reasons to dislike them. The same way if it were revelaed that Garmin were indeed running a huge doping programme, I would have a lot more dislike for them than say a team like RadioShack. Personally, I find the idea of any athlete who consciously and strategically uses a devastating illness to defend themselves from the inevitable questions of doping and willingly sets themselves up as some sort of moral icon based on lies, well lets just say scum doesnt even begin to describe how I feel towards them.

For anyone to suggest that Contador is anywhere near the narcistic level of Armstrong is beyond my help. If you think Contador is on that level, then please provide the evidence.

 

[straydog]

Okay that's a fair point. But you do need to stop acting as if I'm mentally challenged because I'm not.

I don't need to act anything...you are doing plenty good yourself on that front.

Rhub...good to see you again.

Your double standards...your argument I mean not your morals

Listen, the Federal investigation is a different thing entirely, it was about possible criminal activities, and clearly not about whether someone was doping or not. You might not like that that was it's remit, but it was. As such the two "cases" are not connected or relevant to one another in any way.
This case, on it's own merits is entirely open and shut, and honestly I think the UCI has been as complicit in trying to cover this up and limit it's impact on Contador as they have been on anything previously they had their hand in.

I don't think Armstrong should have been criminally prosecuted no. And likewise I don't think his results from previous tours will or should be investigated. That may be my hypocrisy and I hold my hands up if so. But As I see it whether someone is a nice guy or not is utterly irrelevant to the morals of doping and cheating.

For me 2007 was the beginning of a new dawn, the possibility that cycling was finally going to try and seriously produce clean results. As such I have embraced and loved watching riders who I believe in, Wiggins, Voeckler, Moncoutie, and plenty others coming to the fore. I don't hate Contador because he's a doper....I hate him because he is such an extroardinarily talented rider who could make such a difference to the future of this sport if he were open and clean!

I'd hope any intelligence he has, and admittedly it isn't a lot, would direct him to the fall out and legacy attached by some to LA, and think to himself that maybe how he wins, rather than how many he wins is the important thing.

Peace....and really good to see you about again Rhub

 

[Thomsena]

I look forward to seeing tours with no super-human performances. I want to be able to believe what I'm seeing.

I'd rather not see Contador riding again....it's a shame, because I loved watching him climb.

Andy was equally as good as Berto in mountains in 2010...

 

[Walkman]

Nobody has made such wild claims. Whereas your reading of the situation might be an entertaining diversion to this thread, though it is factual nonsense. That Alberto doped is no more commendable than Lance's illicit methods, but what is important is the double-standard these cases have evidenced. As well as the fact that LA was protected by the very same institution that has hypocritically pursued Contador with every means at its disposal to impose a ban on him. Herein lies the true nature of the perversion.

If that were to be the case, isn't it a good thing that the UCI has changed for whatever reason (like that they are monitored more closley now)? Would you rather still have the UCI protecting riders just because LA was protected during his time?

And is you are referring to the UCI ehen you say:

LA was protected by the very same institution that has hypocritically pursued Contador with every means at its disposal to impose a ban on him.

Wasn't it the case were the UCI held on for the information as long as possible and only went public after a leak had told us about AC's postive even though they, if I recall correctly, had know about the positive test for some time?

Looks more like a cover up than a witch hunt to me.

 

[DirtyWorks]

...That Alberto doped is no more commendable than Lance's illicit methods, but what is important is the double-standard these cases have evidenced. As well as the fact that LA was protected by the very same institution that has hypocritically pursued Contador with every means at its disposal to impose a ban on him.

You have forgotten that the UCI was notified by German media that they had a Contador positive? The UCI was trying to keep the positive hidden. They had known of the AAF for quite some time!

If in fact the UCI was not supporting Contador, then it would have been a Li FuYu outcome. Announced positive, vanish from Pro peloton days later never to be seen in Europe again. But no.

The facts of the matter simply do not support your opinion.

 

[Thomsena]

For me 2007 was the beginning of a new dawn, the possibility that cycling was finally going to try and seriously produce clean results. As such I have embraced and loved watching riders who I believe in, Wiggins, Voeckler, Moncoutie, and plenty others coming to the fore.

I bet you were thrilled to see Lance return then?

 

[luckyboy]

I want to be able to believe what I'm seeing.

Are you going to stop watching cycling now then?

 

[DirtyWorks]

What happened to the comparison of other cases with infected meat? How come they came out as not guilty but Berto does? Where's the difference?

The EU has a very well regulated/tested meat supply. China and Mexico do not. The meat excuse is as bad as Tyler Hamilton's vanishing twin.