Andreas Kloden's Final Bid For Another Coveted Top 10 Tour Finish, 'Official' Thread

[Ruby United]

I think Kloden's winning seasons are over. It's time for him to admit he's just a very good domestique for the Schlecks.

 

[will10]

Yeah, '06 was a big chance, but unlucky with shoulder injury in late March that season resulting in a minimal preparation.

All he needed was 2-3 T-Mobile guys to knock Periero & Voigt's advantage down from 30 minutes down to 29 and Kloden would've won the Tour.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I think Kloden's winning seasons are over. It's time for him to admit he's just a very good domestique for the Schlecks.

Where exactly want the Schlecks win the Tour?
No way in he'll they'll finish on the podium on this non climber friendly parcours.
A natural GT specialist like Klöden has much better chances.

 

[roundabout]

All he needed was 2-3 T-Mobile guys to knock Periero & Voigt's advantage down from 30 minutes down to 29 and Kloden would've won the Tour.

That's easy to say now.

Maybe they could also foresee Pereiro gobbling up all the leftover Piti dope to ride as well as he did in the Alps/final TT.

 

[ferryman]

So if we come to the second week of the Tour and Klödi is ahead of me, I will ride for him, I have no problem with that

I think you need to interpret that as 'if we come to the end of the second week' I would suggest.

 

[webvan]

That's easy to say now.

Maybe they could also foresee Pereiro gobbling up all the leftover Piti dope to ride as well as he did in the Alps/final TT.

More to the point they all forgot that he was a Top 10 finisher in 2005, who on earth would be stupid enough to give a rider like that such a lead other than Lelangue and the brains at the Telekom or whatever they were called at the time.

 

[roundabout]

Not really. Giving a rider who could barely finish top-10 in the Tour and lost 20+ minutes in the only difficult stage of that edition one and a half minutes (in case of Landis) and about 4 minutes (Klöden) with 3 Alpine stages and a long TT to come was only slightly risky when viewed with 2006 glasses on.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Apart from where the reason Pereiro lost those 20 minutes was in order to go stagehunting. He would have lost time anyway, but best to let go completely and have a chance of being allowed to go later on. Just like Cunego did in '09, where he was dropped on Sierra Nevada, so he coasted in with the autobus, which meant he was far enough down to be allowed in the break the next day, winning the MTF by over 2 minutes.

Pereiro was perhaps too dangerous to give THAT much time to. Like Arroyo he was in that close area of being too good to collapse and lose all the time back, but not good enough to hold everybody off. Phonak didn't want the yellow, and to be fair probably wouldn't have foreseen Landis' unexpected collapse and incredible (too incredible) recovery.

 

[roundabout]

Must have been why Pereiro was 4th (3rd best) over the remaining stages after he got yellow from that break.

No, nothing unpredictable about that...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Must have been why Pereiro was 4th (3rd best) over the remaining stages after he got yellow from that break.

No, nothing unpredictable about that...

Oh yes, he was fishily good after that. But even then, he was a guy who had won TDF mountain stages, and had good placements in ITTs (even winning one at Romandie, but he was top 10 at both in the 2005 Vuelta, 15th in the final one in the 2005 Tour); he had been in the top 10 of the Tour de Suisse (3rd, 2003), Paris-Nice (10th, 2003, 7th, 2004), País Vasco (6th, 2005), the Dauphiné (9th, 2004), Romandie (7th, 2005) and of course the Tour (10th 2004, 2005);he was arriving at the Tour de France with less racing in his legs than previous years (21 racing days pre-Tour in 2006, 33 in 2005), and had the motivation of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity at the maillot jaune (notwithstanding the probable clinic aid, because let's face it, going up against that T-Mobile squad and Floyd Landis it's irrelevant). You would have thought Phonak would be able to know his danger levels, since he'd raced for them for four years previously. But since Phonak were desperate to be rid of the yellow jersey as they were shedding men and didn't have too much aid for Landis in the mountains, you would have thought T-Mobile would have wanted to keep him in yellow, just as Caisse d'Epargne tried to work to keep Leipheimer in the maillot oro in the 2008 Vuelta to foster dissension in the Astana ranks.

Certainly Óscar Pereiro's rides in the maillot jaune were surprising and unexpectedly good. But he had enough pedigree in his palmarès to suggest that you might want to think twice about giving him that kind of rope, as one bad day (like Landis had) could be enough to give him the space he needed.

I'm not so much bothered by T-Mobile letting Pereiro go - that was Phonak's decision. I'm surprised that T-Mobile didn't try to make sure Landis held the yellow jersey and put more pressure on Phonak's domestiques.

 

[roundabout]

You listed the results in short stage races.

I can list even better GC results for, say, Valjavec. Doesn't mean that he would have suddenly risen to the challenge even with the "motivation of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity".

Again, T-Mobies (and Phonak) didn't do much wrong that day. Pereiro being above par was unforeseeable to put it mildly (especially given the preparation of the other contenders, hence my comment about the leftover dope).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

David Arroyo got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity; he nearly took it. Same with Voeckler. Sure, they didn't surprise as much as Pereiro, but then, the situations weren't quite the same.

Pereiro should never have been able to defend the time he had (of course, he didn't, but nearly did). But it just takes one bad day, and you've put somebody else back in contention. This isn't Astana letting Egoi Martínez take gold in 2008, or Giovanni Visconti holding the maglia rosa for a week in 2008 here.

If I were T-Mobile, I'd know that Phonak were running short on support and my great advantage was numbers. I'd want Phonak working every day even in pointless flat stages. Phonak wanted rid of the jersey, and they managed that.

 

[jens_attacks]

that always happen,there is always a nutter who will push his limits above what was knew until then whatever is kivilev,pereiro,hell even dessel,arroyo,voeckler.just don't give them many minutes

 

[greenedge]

I'm not so much bothered by T-Mobile letting Pereiro go - that was Phonak's decision. I'm surprised that T-Mobile didn't try to make sure Landis held the yellow jersey and put more pressure on Phonak's domestiques.

The only problem with that is even if Landis kept the jersey over Oscar, Phonak still would not work to protect the jersey ( unless if someone considered more dangerous at the time went ).

 

[gregrowlerson]

Riding for Klöden?

Pacing him when he inevitably gets dropped?

Not attacking so that the pace isn't too high for Klöden so he can finish 5th instead of 8th?

I agree with these questions because they point out a likely scenario. There is no way that Andy should ride for Andreas, unless it gets to a point where it is very clear that Klodi has a better chance at a high GC finish. So what if Kloden is a minute ahead of Schleck and has yellow after the first ITT? He may well get dropped at the beggining of La Toussierre, and if the whole team decides to try to drag him up the mountain (just to pay homage to the jersey) they will all be sacrificial lambs. I don't see why a team can't have a number of protected riders - given that there are 9 in a squad. So if Klodi is dropped and is sitting in the top 10, then get Horner to help; perhaps even Frank, but not Andy. And if Andy is feeling good and wants to go on the attack let him go. Otherwise you will get a situation that may have occurred if Alberto hadn't attacked on Arcalis. If Kloden is good enough he can follow the wheels of others who are trying to bring Andy back.

Imagine if Kloden had had to wait for Ullrich in the entire Pyrenees in '04? He would never have finished on the podium.

 

[McLovin]

Ullrich risen a lot in my eyes on La Mongie stage. He was a a 6 time podium finisher in le Tour and Klody didn't even had to look back. Maybe beacuse they were also good friends.

 

[airstream]

There's the rumor Klodi can start the Giro

As for La Mongie, I think, the bosses were awared of a very good Kloden's preparedness and let him go. He usually was potentially strong GT rider, but injuries and illnesses prevented to implement this.

 

[LaFlorecita]

There's the rumor Klodi can start the Giro

As for La Mongie, I think, the bosses were awared of a very good Kloden's preparedness and let him go. He usually was potentially strong GT rider, but injuries and illnesses prevented to implement this.

Oh please no. Let Jakob have his chance for a good GC.

 

[roundabout]

All the years of drug abuse may have finally caught up with Hog if he really thinks that sending Klöden to the Giro is a good idea.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

All the years of drug abuse may have finally caught up with Hog if he really thinks that sending Klöden to the Giro is a good idea.

Maybe they don't want him to arrive at the Tour in top shape.

 

[airstream]

I'm afraid the overly steep Giro climbs are not for lean inflexible Kloden's body absolutely. Hopefully it will be only like part of preparation for the Tour.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I'm afraid the overly steep Giro climbs are not for lean inflexible Kloden's body absolutely. Hopefully it will be only like part of preparation for the Tour.

Steep climbs ?
Who cares about steepness of climbs.
It's more the weather and possible wet and cold conditions that worry the Klödi-fans.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I'm afraid the overly steep Giro climbs are not for lean inflexible Kloden's body absolutely. Hopefully it will be only like part of preparation for the Tour.

No, he's going for the win if he rides it. He implied that much.

He has to work for Andy Schleck at the Tour. If he wears himself out at the Giro, then perhaps he won't be two minutes ahead of Schleck after the 38 km TT, which could complicate things.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'm afraid the overly steep Giro climbs are not for lean inflexible Kloden's body absolutely. Hopefully it will be only like part of preparation for the Tour.

Didn't Klöden just win País Vasco? Perhaps the only race that can consistently contend with the Giro for steepness of climbs?

 

[airstream]

Didn't Klöden just win País Vasco? Perhaps the only race that can consistently contend with the Giro for steepness of climbs?

Yeah, he did. It was Klodi in his new hypostasis. But that climb was only about 2-3k long with really steep part on about 1k, if I recall correctly. Still very sceptical about his chances to get over Pampeago or Mortirolo on the best 3-4 ones' level or, at least, good enough to qualify for the victory.