Andy Schleck Discussion thread.

[Ripper]

Knowing the clinic, anyone finishing on the podium is one for the clinic.

That does tend to be true with many clinic goers!

 

[therealtimshady]

I agree with the eurosport commentators - andy shreck just couldn't be ars*d today, in fact other than the tour I feel he can't be bothered in general

 

[silverrocket]

I'm starting to think that too. This is just getting too far fetched.

I don't know if it is that extreme, but I do think it is partly an act by Andy. He knows he's not at the level of Evans or Wiggins, so rather than try his hardest and still come up short, he just doesn't try at all. That way, rather than having his lack of form on display for all his TdF rivals and all us pundits, he has the excuse that "oh, I didn't try my hardest".

Or his form really is that horrendous...

 

[Eusebio Kino]

Yeah, lets just fire the most consistent performer the last four years at the Tour. Brilliant move. Johan is no fool. Performance wise he knows where it needs to be at and is remarkebly astute at estimating the performance indicators of rivals. He's made numerous predictions...Cadel won't win the 2008 Tour was one, that Hesjedal could win a GT if he picked the right one. Not a brilliant motivator, but astute enough to know what needs to be done.

He's seen Andy race before, knows what he is doing. Yes it's dull, yes it's probably throwing great potential away, but it's what Andy Schleck has chosen to do for years and years. He is right where he wants to be. He is on form this year. We'll know in the first week. If he is up there, like in 2010, he is in shape. Last year his first week at the Tour was off. That was a sign he wasn't 100%. Yet he still came second. Andy climbs like he did in 2009 and 2010, better, if he drops Franck, a lot of people are going to rethink who can win the Tour. Andy Schleck can win this Tour. He has the natural talent and the records to suggest so. It will all come down to attitude.

Maybe the Bruyneel garbage, the desire and losing last year will drive him. The right combination of factors could see him finally go out and deliver day in day out and deliver on his talent and finally win a Tour. Everyone here should be hoping for that as a fan of cycling. He is the best climber in the world riding ATM. By some margin. Lets hope he shows that this July over the entire three weeks. Will make this Tour worth watching over the snooze fest so many Brits here are praying and sacrificing small children for.

Andy is just on training schedule today, Bruyneel knows it, Andy knows it, management and team RSNT know it.
Andy is a hot commodity in the cycling world. Bruyneel, and the RSNT, smoke and mirrors this year, excepting Spartacus, who would have dominated the Classics this year, if not for crash.
Checking the cycling boards in the English speaking world RSNT overides all other cycling teams, 3/1. Publicity and advertising, this is the sport.
As a postscript, I would venture to say that Andy has been training and riding a fixed gear pursuit bike behind dernys on board tracks in some part of the world, with Ekimov coaching.

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

Why is Andy Schleck at the Dauphine if he's not even going to keep up with the peloton? If the idea is simply conditioning and getting more race days in his legs, one would think he'd at least want to keep up with the main bunch.

As for only racing to win in the TdF, Schlecklet takes that approach to extremes. If his wikipedia entry is correct, his only major victory in other races was the 2009 Liège–Bastogne–Liège. That's it. All that talent. One race.

I'm reminded of another TdF rider who was much maligned for focusing solely on the Tour, Lance Armstrong. He won a world championship (granted that was long before his TdF wins), La Flèche Wallonne, the Tour of Luxembourg, the Tour de Suisse, and the Critérium du Dauphiné (twice). It's not much for a 7 time TdF winner, but at least he occasionally raced to win outside of the TdF.

Wiggins and Evans are certainly preparing for Le Tour, but they're also putting in strong performances at Dauphine.

+1

While Lance didn't do many races outside of the Tour, in the races he did do, he made an effort to at least be near the pointy end of the race. That is the point of races, whether you are there to win or to train. Why bother showing up to the race if you've decided that Monday's are tempo days.

 

[hrotha]

+1

While Lance didn't do many races outside of the Tour, in the races he did do, he made an effort to at least be near the pointy end of the race. That is the point of races, whether you are there to win or to train. Why bother showing up to the race if you've decided that Monday's are tempo days.

Armstrong took an already existing trend and took it to new extremes. Before his days, people criticized Indurain for not doing the classics, not doing much after the Tour, etc, but he won many of his training races, and from April/May to August he was an unstoppable machine. Armstrong took it to new levels because he only did one GT, so his training race was usually just Suisse or Dauphiné, he rode a few classics here and there and didn't race much after the Tour either. Before Indurain, post-gunshot LeMond was similar.

But no one before Andy (especially this year) took it to such ridiculous extents. And while he's obviously one of the top favourites, it's not like he's the sole man to beat.

 

[Galic Ho]

Andy is just on training schedule today, Bruyneel knows it, Andy knows it, management and team RSNT know it.
Andy is a hot commodity in the cycling world. Bruyneel, and the RSNT, smoke and mirrors this year, excepting Spartacus, who would have dominated the Classics this year, if not for crash.
Checking the cycling boards in the English speaking world RSNT overides all other cycling teams, 3/1. Publicity and advertising, this is the sport.
As a postscript, I would venture to say that Andy has been training and riding a fixed gear pursuit bike behind dernys on board tracks in some part of the world, with Ekimov coaching.

Vladimir Ekimov? Hmmmnnnn...anyone here can expand on this? I'd certainly like to hear it.

Schleck's training right now is all about muscular preparation. Riding slowly up to form. It's the final bit of training after this where he'll push himself, back it off in the last week, taper and be fully ready to go. Part of that involves peaking maximally for the final week in terms of recuperation. Andy Schleck has the recovery part in spades. Easy for him. He doesn't need to drop weight so he doesn't need to go harder right now. It's all about holding form, going through the motions. His training after the Duaphine...pretty sure it would be impressive. I don't see him being off this year in the first week like he was last year. Can't imagine he'd get it wrong again.

Not his biggest fan, don't like the remarks he makes and his attitude but his talent is undeniable. Contador out, if Andy Schleck is in form and races harder than he ever has, he could do some serious damage at the Tour. As per usual with Andy, it is a big 'IF.' Hope for viewing sake he drops all the stops, that the whole team does. I wanted to see last year what they'd deliver at the Shack. Kloden, Horner, Astarloza, Fuglsang, Franck...they have some nice talent to set Andy up in the mountains.

 

[Dedelou]

Armstrong took an already existing trend and took it to new extremes. Before his days, people criticized Indurain for not doing the classics, not doing much after the Tour, etc, but he won many of his training races, and from April/May to August he was an unstoppable machine. Armstrong took it to new levels because he only did one GT, so his training race was usually just Suisse or Dauphiné, he rode a few classics here and there and didn't race much after the Tour either. Before Indurain, post-gunshot LeMond was similar.

But no one before Andy (especially this year) took it to such ridiculous extents. And while he's obviously one of the top favourites, it's not like he's the sole man to beat.

you probably right in pointing out that around the time of LeMond a change occurred in cycling trending toward more specialization.. Finished the 440 victories of the type of winners like Eddy Merckx, or the 251 of Hinault.. The presence of champions start to drop significantly and most of the winners , except perhaps the sprinters, ended up with less than 100 wins in their career

 

[Sidbike]

I don't know, but I get the feeling that Bruyneel and Schleck are putting on one hell of a show here. It's the upgrated "Lance pretends to suffer before the final climb" move, now extended to the whole season before the Tour

I'm with you.

 

[thehog]

I'm with you.

Problem with this approach if it were true is people won't buy it. There would be such outage and obvious questions to Clinic type activity it wouldn't be worth the pay off. Besides Andy doesn't need to fox. He's not the favorite. He could have gone about his business and build up in relative calm. Armstrong was dead set favorite. When he foxed it meant something because it was so out of character. To me it's not worth the effort to fox for 6 months on end. Hard to keep that act up.

 

[Ripper]

Yeah, lets just fire the most consistent performer the last four years at the Tour. Brilliant move. Johan is no fool. Performance wise he knows where it needs to be at and is remarkebly astute at estimating the performance indicators of rivals. He's made numerous predictions...Cadel won't win the 2008 Tour was one, that Hesjedal could win a GT if he picked the right one. Not a brilliant motivator, but astute enough to know what needs to be done.

He's seen Andy race before, knows what he is doing. Yes it's dull, yes it's probably throwing great potential away, but it's what Andy Schleck has chosen to do for years and years. He is right where he wants to be. He is on form this year. We'll know in the first week. If he is up there, like in 2010, he is in shape. Last year his first week at the Tour was off. That was a sign he wasn't 100%. Yet he still came second. Andy climbs like he did in 2009 and 2010, better, if he drops Franck, a lot of people are going to rethink who can win the Tour. Andy Schleck can win this Tour. He has the natural talent and the records to suggest so. It will all come down to attitude.

Maybe the Bruyneel garbage, the desire and losing last year will drive him. The right combination of factors could see him finally go out and deliver day in day out and deliver on his talent and finally win a Tour. Everyone here should be hoping for that as a fan of cycling. He is the best climber in the world riding ATM. By some margin. Lets hope he shows that this July over the entire three weeks. Will make this Tour worth watching over the snooze fest so many Brits here are praying and sacrificing small children for.

You are smoking something.

 

[Ripper]

Schleck's training right now is all about muscular preparation. Riding slowly up to form. It's the final bit of training after this where he'll push himself, back it off in the last week, taper and be fully ready to go ...

That is some serious speculation. If that were the case, then why bother with the Dauphiné? Other folks have not raced for a bit either. I am pretty sure Spandy is not doing anything that unique (unless it's his other preparations), so why is he sucking quite so badly?

If you want to train tempo, you don't bother with races. Physiological training is about significant enough overload followed by recovery. Large blocks work well for stage racers (look at the past few years of winners).

Whether it's Randy's training, or his attitude, this is why he will not win the tour this year.

 

[Ripper]

Problem with this approach if it were true is people won't buy it. There would be such outage and obvious questions to Clinic type activity it wouldn't be worth the pay off. Besides Andy doesn't need to fox. He's not the favorite. He could have gone about his business and build up in relative calm. Armstrong was dead set favorite. When he foxed it meant something because it was so out of character. To me it's not worth the effort to fox for 6 months on end. Hard to keep that act up.

Not only do I agree, but it would not be bad for Andy or the sponsors of the team if he tried once this season. To date - n o t h i n g.

The only payback that might be OK is a commanding win at the tour, which is beyond silly.

I can just see Mandy being ni the top 3 of the long TT. Nothing strange to see here folks

 

[thehog]

You are smoking something.

I'd say chasing the dragon with a speedball hit.

 

[Ripper]

I'd say chasing the dragon with a speedball hit.

Ouch, call the medics!

 

[rhubroma]

you probably right in pointing out that around the time of LeMond a change occurred in cycling trending toward more specialization.. Finished the 440 victories of the type of winners like Eddy Merckx, or the 251 of Hinault.. The presence of champions start to drop significantly and most of the winners , except perhaps the sprinters, ended up with less than 100 wins in their career

For those who have watched that generation, today's cycling truly seems to have lost that heroic quality.

I can't understand Andy's approach. He seems to suffer from a primadonna sindrome, while he palmares certainly doesn't justify this. Apart from Liege and a Tour settled at the table victory, what has he achieved?

Whatever opinion one has of Contador, one can't help but being impressed by the fact that the Spaniard wins early in the season, at the Giro, Tour and perhaps this year we will see him fighting for the win at the Worlds and Lombardia. Only Evans has asked (nearly) as much of himself and delivered.

Shleck is like the bad sequel of an original version you hoped wouldn't be made.

 

[jilbiker]

Sulking

You know after seeing AS yesterday, I actually think he is sulking. As unbelievable as that would sound for a twenty something year old, yes this is Andy the big baby. He is not happy because le Directeur (JB) is smacking his brother and is not playing nice. It is so laughable but true! So he is going to just pande around at the Dauphe race and say whatever to JB. Very unprofessional but what is new on Andy. I remember when Riis scolded him at the Vuelta for indiscipline and he went sulking.

Andy in a similar situation as AC in 2009 with LA and his team cohorts with their own agenda and Le Directuer with his own agenda would have gone into a corner and sulked.

Grow up Andy or quit the sport and go home to have a cookie and hot Cocoa.

 

[veganrob]

Problem with this approach if it were true is people won't buy it. There would be such outage and obvious questions to Clinic type activity it wouldn't be worth the pay off. Besides Andy doesn't need to fox. He's not the favorite. He could have gone about his business and build up in relative calm. Armstrong was dead set favorite. When he foxed it meant something because it was so out of character. To me it's not worth the effort to fox for 6 months on end. Hard to keep that act up.

Mostly agree with you. There is absolutely no advantage Andy could hope to obtain in tour by bluffing all season long. And training is no substitute for actual race conditions for GT.
While Andy is not favorite like LA was, he will still be watched closely as he has talent. Which then brings us back to he isn't fooling anybody. It is not worth effort of foxing as you say for 6 months

 

[JimPanzen]

Mostly agree with you. There is absolutely no advantage Andy could hope to obtain in tour by bluffing all season long. And training is no substitute for actual race conditions for GT.
While Andy is not favorite like LA was, he will still be watched closely as he has talent. Which then brings us back to he isn't fooling anybody. It is not worth effort of foxing as you say for 6 months

Of course he's not bluffing, that was more of a joke. He (and the whole team) would be crazy to risk such negative media coverage on purpose, when he's not at all certain to perform well at the Tour.

But still, this is getting so out of hands that it seems kind of constructed. We'll see...

 

[veganrob]

Will be interesting

 

[pillowsplat]

My two cents

First, Andy's chance to win the tour will rely on a huge gap on the mountain days. I don't think he has the talent to gap Wiggins and the tough as nails, smart Evans. With 100 Kilos of TT work ahead him he can not win. Think about it he will probably drop 10 min to Wiggo and Evans over that distance. Add to that he struggles on the scary descents. Let me take that back he is a normal human being. If he get scared he slows down. I call that smart but not the best mindset for a pro rider. So JB really doesn't have the cards to play with Andy.
Then the whole JB thing. He has some other cards to play. 2 Schlecks, Horner, Fabian, Jakob, and a cast of tough guys. I don't think he can win in the traditional model he is used to using. None of his climbers are really explosive like Conatador or Lance. They might win the stage but they can't get huge gaps on multiple days. So JB needs to figure how do I get the best bang for my buck. Stage wins? maybe. But he may have devised a diversion, not unlike him. JB is a professional. He wouldn't call out the Schleck's to the press even if it might deserved if he was 100% in their corner. You have to be a TOUGH guy to win the TdF. I believe Andy is a great rider but is not an all arounder. I suspect Andy will be down big time after the first TT. Unlikley he has the goods to battle back And put enough in the bank for the last TT. If I were JB I would keep my options open. I wouldn't bring Andy cause I don't think he would drill it for anyone but his brother. Andy will get his chance but not this year. Maybe not ever unless Alberto falls down.

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

First, Andy's chance to win the tour will rely on a huge gap on the mountain days. I don't think he has the talent to gap Wiggins and the tough as nails, smart Evans. With 100 Kilos of TT work ahead him he can not win. Think about it he will probably drop 10 min to Wiggo and Evans over that distance. Add to that he struggles on the scary descents. Let me take that back he is a normal human being. If he get scared he slows down. I call that smart but not the best mindset for a pro rider. So JB really doesn't have the cards to play with Andy.
Then the whole JB thing. He has some other cards to play. 2 Schlecks, Horner, Fabian, Jakob, and a cast of tough guys. I don't think he can win in the traditional model he is used to using. None of his climbers are really explosive like Conatador or Lance. They might win the stage but they can't get huge gaps on multiple days. So JB needs to figure how do I get the best bang for my buck. Stage wins? maybe. But he may have devised a diversion, not unlike him. JB is a professional. He wouldn't call out the Schleck's to the press even if it might deserved if he was 100% in their corner. You have to be a TOUGH guy to win the TdF. I believe Andy is a great rider but is not an all arounder. I suspect Andy will be down big time after the first TT. Unlikley he has the goods to battle back And put enough in the bank for the last TT. If I were JB I would keep my options open. I wouldn't bring Andy cause I don't think he would drill it for anyone but his brother. Andy will get his chance but not this year. Maybe not ever unless Alberto falls down.

10 minutes? Come on, now. Andy Schleck isn't THAT bad of a time trialist. In the Tour's final time trial last year, he was 2:31 off of Cadel for 42k. That is 36 seconds per 10k, or about 6 minutes over 100k. 6 minutes is much more manageable, though I don't see Andy making that up. He still has a very good chance at getting on the podium IMO, though.

 

[Race Radio]

Johan's favorite newspaper calls Andy "The new Jan Ullrich"

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail.aspx?articleid=DMF20120605_024

Ouch

 

[thehog]

Mostly agree with you. There is absolutely no advantage Andy could hope to obtain in tour by bluffing all season long. And training is no substitute for actual race conditions for GT.
While Andy is not favorite like LA was, he will still be watched closely as he has talent. Which then brings us back to he isn't fooling anybody. It is not worth effort of foxing as you say for 6 months

Correct. In addition having a win during the season pulls up the confidence. Even if your numbers are good in training nothing can replace winning as a marker you're on track. To me his head isn't there. You can't win when your mind is on other things. As a previous post suggested Contador made up his mind early that Bruyneel would side with Armstrong and moved early with his own preparation and gameplan. He didn't sulk and just got on with it. Andy has been sitting in the corner waiting for someone to save him. It won't happen. In some ways I think Hog is trying to get him to man up. But he won't do it.

 

[rickshaw]

wow... too true

Johan's favorite newspaper calls Andy "The new Jan Ullrich"

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail.aspx?articleid=DMF20120605_024

Ouch

there ARE lots of similarities; perennial second place, the "pardy hardy" persona, and each one has his own svengali (Kim and Rudy)... then of course Jan actually DID win The Big Race whereas Frankenandy never has. Winning and being declared winner are two different things. Also Jan always seemed like a good guy, the kind of person you'd like to know. Frankenandy.... not so much.