Armstrong comments on Contador feud; "It was deliberate" - link in text.

[Earth Tribe]

A huge part of that level of cycling is mental. It's a tough sport.

 

[auscyclefan94]

They were the two favorites going into the Tour. The team mate bullsh1t doesn't count for much in these circumstances. Contador also knew this and attacked despite his team telling him not to, and good luck to him. It was a very unusual situation.

Even though AC's arcalis attack was random, i think it was a good move by AC as it showed to bruyneel and the rest of the team and the gc contenders that he was going to be very hard to beat and was the best. I would of thought that JB would of instructed that move as to gain 20-30 secs on the field as the gc guys weren't finding it that easy compared to him. When their is an oppportunity to gain time you have to take it.

On another note for 2010 i personally think leipheimer may be a better option than lance to lead the shack as armstrong is not even near AC in an itt and ac has got such an acceleration that no one can follow on climbs.

Leipheimer can at least climb alright and is a better time trialist than AC.

JB is going to have to play a very smart tatical game to get rid of contador.

 

[Publicus]

They were the two favorites going into the Tour. The team mate bullsh1t doesn't count for much in these circumstances. Contador also knew this and attacked despite his team telling him not to, and good luck to him. It was a very unusual situation.

Armstrong was a media favorite pure and simple. I for one was under no illusion about who was the strongest member of that team. Nor was Bruyneel for that matter--he designated AC the team leader. The fact that Lance spent his time trying to undermine his team leader makes him a d1ck and a hypocrite (he would never tolerate that crap on his team). He doesn't deserve kudos for admitting something everyone knew. If he wasn't capable of accepting that he wasn't the team leader, he could have stayed at home and twittered.

And AC didn't attack against any orders. I'm sicking reading that nonsense. It wasn't true when the attack at Arcalis occurred, it's not true now.

 

[Oldman]

They were the two favorites going into the Tour. The team mate bullsh1t doesn't count for much in these circumstances. Contador also knew this and attacked despite his team telling him not to, and good luck to him. It was a very unusual situation.

It's not that unusual and has occurred in other Tours on other teams. What's unique is Armstrong admitting his infantile tactics. Most good athletes leave that crap on the playing field and at least fake respect for their fellow mates. It usually backfires if the adversary gets the last laugh.

 

[hfer07]

This thread is just AC fans bashing Armstrong, like most LA or AC related threads here are. Just a reality check, LA still came third last year after 3½ years off, breaking collarbone and doing the Giro. As for next year, even he is one year older than last year, it really doesn't make a difference, 38 or 39, it's just the same. He will only be stronger next year, not weaker.

 

[badboyberty]

i thought only epicly rapha were epic...

Bet me to it...

 

[Earth Tribe]

Armstrong was a media favorite pure and simple. I for one was under no illusion about who was the strongest member of that team.

Good for you, and the bookies agreed, but Armstrong was really an unknown quantity and the two riders were the favorites, so the idea that either one of them would obediently follow the other was never really on the cards. One of them first had to show they could make the distance.

Nor was Bruyneel for that matter--he designated AC the team leader. The fact that Lance spent his time trying to undermine his team leader makes him a d1ck and a hypocrite (he would never tolerate that crap on his team).

There was no hard and fast team leader at the beginning of the tour, as I understood it, so I don't know quite where you got that from.

I think you're being unrealistic. In the real world we know Armstrong is not just any old rider - he won seven tours in a row, and he specifically said he came back to try to win the tour. To compare the situation with one his domestiques during his time winning tours is not to compare like with like. Armstrong always made sure he was not in a team with another tour favorite. Contador would have long known about Armstrong's intentions and must have expected this. He could have tried to block Armstrong coming back to his team, or moved to another team himself. In fact given Bruyneel's close relationship with Armstrong and Astana's ongoing troubles, it surprised me that Contador didn't chose to swap teams. Strange that. Could have saved himself a lot of hassle.

He doesn't deserve kudos for admitting something everyone knew. If he wasn't capable of accepting that he wasn't the team leader, he could have stayed at home and twittered.

But obviously until their respective form was shown Armstrong did not know for sure who was going to be team leader. Yes it was always likely that Contador would show his form in the mountains, but anything can happen in a tour so he was right to wait until the last moment. When that moment came, Armstrong then accepted Contador was the stronger rider and domestiqued for Contador. So lets get the record straight.

And AC didn't attack against any orders. I'm sicking reading that nonsense. It wasn't true when the attack at Arcalis occurred, it's not true now.

I think it's pretty established that the rest of the team did not know he was going to attack. With two favorites in the same team that type of thing happens. I don't hold it against Contador - it's no great crime in that situation.

 

[skidmark]

Good for you, and the bookies agreed, but Armstrong was really an unknown quantity and the two riders were the favorites, so the idea that either one of them would obediently follow the other was never really on the cards. One of them first had to show they could make the distance.



There was no hard and fast team leader at the beginning of the tour, as I understood it, so I don't know quite where you got that from.

I think you're being unrealistic. In the real world we know Armstrong is not just any old rider - he won seven tours in a row, and he specifically said he came back to try to win the tour. To compare the situation with one his domestiques during his time winning tours is not to compare like with like. Armstrong always made sure he was not in a team with another tour favorite. Contador would have long known about Armstrong's intentions and must have expected this. He could have tried to block Armstrong coming back to his team, or moved to another team himself. In fact given Bruyneel's close relationship with Armstrong and Astana's ongoing troubles, it surprised me that Contador didn't chose to swap teams. Strange that. Could have saved himself a lot of hassle.



But obviously until their respective form was shown Armstrong did not know for sure who was going to be team leader. Yes it was always likely that Contador would show his form in the mountains, but anything can happen in a tour so he was right to wait until the last moment. When that moment came, Armstrong then accepted Contador was the stronger rider and domestiqued for Contador. So lets get the record straight.



I think it's pretty established that the rest of the team did not know he was going to attack. With two favorites in the same team that type of thing happens. I don't hold it against Contador - it's no great crime in that situation.

Welcome back again BPC. Glad to see you've found a new name so quickly.

 

[Anonymous]

What Contador really said

Sorry if this repeats someone else, but I've gotten over the anger of this subject and won't read the six pages of comment during the holiday season. But at the time, A;berto was badly quoted, there were sensationalist headlines and lots of spin. I heard two translations I trust for fairness and accuracy, one by the BBC and the other Reuters. I'll add the links, but here's what I copied while listening, hopefully vebatim.

"Well, my relationship with Lance is zero. My relationship with him is zero. I think that independently of what his character is, he's still a great champion. He's won seven Tours and played a big part in this one, too. But it's different to speak at a personal level. I have never really admired him that much, or will ever, but of course as a cyclist, he is a great champion."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/8172975.stm

http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoChannel=1004&videoId=108718

I've seen a couple of in-depth interviews with Contador since - the best was in Cycle Sport UK. Alberto said he couldn't re-watch any of the Tour, or think about it. But he's also not the kind of person who goes around saying bad things about people, even if they've wronged him. And with the cycling media willing to repeat anything that pops up on twitter, it's easy for people to talk all the trash they want without fear of retaliation. Contador will get even using his head, his legs and the heart of a champion. Happy Holidays

 

[Race Radio]

Good for you, and the bookies agreed, but Armstrong was really an unknown quantity and the two riders were the favorites, so the idea that either one of them would obediently follow the other was never really on the cards. One of them first had to show they could make the distance.



There was no hard and fast team leader at the beginning of the tour, as I understood it, so I don't know quite where you got that from.

I think you're being unrealistic. In the real world we know Armstrong is not just any old rider - he won seven tours in a row, and he specifically said he came back to try to win the tour. To compare the situation with one his domestiques during his time winning tours is not to compare like with like. Armstrong always made sure he was not in a team with another tour favorite. Contador would have long known about Armstrong's intentions and must have expected this. He could have tried to block Armstrong coming back to his team, or moved to another team himself. In fact given Bruyneel's close relationship with Armstrong and Astana's ongoing troubles, it surprised me that Contador didn't chose to swap teams. Strange that. Could have saved himself a lot of hassle.



But obviously until their respective form was shown Armstrong did not know for sure who was going to be team leader. Yes it was always likely that Contador would show his form in the mountains, but anything can happen in a tour so he was right to wait until the last moment. When that moment came, Armstrong then accepted Contador was the stronger rider and domestiqued for Contador. So lets get the record straight.



I think it's pretty established that the rest of the team did not know he was going to attack. With two favorites in the same team that type of thing happens. I don't hold it against Contador - it's no great crime in that situation.

You must be getting at least a little tired of getting a new IP address every time you are banned......all that work just so you can embarrass yourself.

 

[rata de sentina]

While I expect A. Schleck and Contador to beat Lance handily... where does the belief that Lance will get worse from this past year come from?

Because the 3rd was an accident of circumstances that propelled him a few places higher than warranted and they're unlikely to be repeated. The 3rd place was courtesy of the stage 3 split and the TTT. He also benefited from the fact that consistent top5 performers of recent years Evans, Sastre and Menchov had very poor tours. In my opinion it is unlikely to happen again. While AC and AS were clearly the best two riders in 2009, LA was not clearly the 3rd best. In my opinion anyone suggesting a top 3 finish as a lay down misere is a fool even if LA maintains his level. If fate lends a hand again then LA might get a top 3 but if CE, CS, DM or even LL perform to their capabilities then a top 5 would be a tremendous acheivement

 

[peloton]

They were the two favorites going into the Tour. The team mate bullsh1t doesn't count for much in these circumstances. Contador also knew this and attacked despite his team telling him not to, and good luck to him. It was a very unusual situation.

Irony is, had Contador not made his attacks, Andy would have been in yellow, still not Lance....

 

[hardline]

To compare the situation with one his domestiques during his time winning tours is not to compare like with like. Armstrong always made sure he was not in a team with another tour favorite.

Actually Roberto heras was a grand tour winner on US Postal winning three vueltas I actually think Heras could've challenged Armstrong in the tour but he sacrifed himself for armstrong and even finished 5th.

 

[Earth Tribe]

Because the 3rd was an accident of circumstances that propelled him a few places higher than warranted and they're unlikely to be repeated. The 3rd place was courtesy of the stage 3 split and the TTT. He also benefited from the fact that consistent top5 performers of recent years Evans, Sastre and Menchov had very poor tours. In my opinion it is unlikely to happen again. While AC and AS were clearly the best two riders in 2009, LA was not clearly the 3rd best. In my opinion anyone suggesting a top 3 finish as a lay down misere is a fool even if LA maintains his level. If fate lends a hand again then LA might get a top 3 but if CE, CS, DM or even LL perform to their capabilities then a top 5 would be a tremendous acheivement

You make some excellent points, however it's fair to say that Armstrong was below his capabilities due to being his first year back - most GC riders take two years to come back to full form after a ban, for instance - and the collar-bone thing complicated his preperation. So my judgment is, as long as everything goes to plan next year, LA should be back to his best form, minus the age problem.

Now, LA's best form from his peak would beat Evans, Sastre and Menchov, and probably AS. So all we have to factor in is how much age will effect his best form. It seems to me that Armstrong has aged fairly well - he was a late developer after all - so I think his age still won't be enough of a factor for him to lose the edge on Evans, etc. I can't imagine Evans or even Menchov casually getting 12th at the Giro despite not being fit - when those guys are not on form they finish miles down. But this of course remains to be seen. But it won't be enough to beat Contador. LA's only chance is to hope that Contador was on some amazing product this year that he won't be able to use again (that's not actually as unbelievable as it sounds if we think how far ahead Contador was, even beating Fabian Cancellara in the TT) or somehow Contador makes a big mistake or has a problem. Given how uncertain a tour is - you point out how things worked in LA's favor this year - it's not even that unlikely that he could still win it. I hope he has crap odds for this because it would certainly be worthwhile to place a little bet.

 

[Earth Tribe]

Actually Roberto heras was a grand tour winner on US Postal winning three vueltas I actually think Heras could've challenged Armstrong in the tour but he sacrifed himself for armstrong and even finished 5th.

Good point, but the other GT's are a different ball game and the scenario is still different to a seven time TdF winner coming back with the stated intention to win. The team was stuffed full of his old teammates and boss too. You didn't have to be psychic.

 

[auscyclefan94]

This thread is just AC fans bashing Armstrong, like most LA or AC related threads here are. Just a reality check, LA still came third last year after 3½ years off, breaking collarbone and doing the Giro. As for next year, even he is one year older than last year, it really doesn't make a difference, 38 or 39, it's just the same. He will only be stronger next year, not weaker.

I am nor an LA or AC fan, and i don't really think much of AC and LA is scum.

FACT 1:Lance having broken his collarbone in the end helped him. If he didn't have it he would of peaked too early.

FACT 2: Lance obviously didn't make life fun for AC at all at Astana and obviously thought he could psych out AC but it didn't work. That's why LA looked so sour on the podium even when his own team mate had just won the tour de france. See, he wants everyone to work and be happy for him when he wins the tour, but when someone else on the team wins, well he's unhappy about it.

FACT 3: Even if Lance improves from this year, firstly you have upcomers like Gesink who are going to get better, evans will be wwitha fresh new attitude/mojo and a new team wanting to get back to the top of the gc list, Wiggins is going to be better prepared with a better training program to suit his GT needs, sastre (if riding) will want to redeem himself from this years dismal effort plus overs who will want prove themselves. Armstrong has no TTT to rely on get a headstart on the field which he would of needed to have a chance on beating gc.

My post is not an LA bash but an eye-opener to people who think this forum is full of lance bashers, it is a forum of realists (mostly). lance may be better next year, but their seems to be a lot of hungry riders looking to improve or get back to the form they had.

 

[Earth Tribe]

auscyclefan94,

one thing I would expect is for Armstrong to TT significantly better next year. Losing weight fairly rapidly before you have reached your peak fitness, as he did this year, hits the power. In theory power should be one of the last things to go in a rider, so theoretically he should be much better.

 

[BikeCentric]

You must be getting at least a little tired of getting a new IP address every time you are banned......all that work just so you can embarrass yourself.

Consider this: we're obviously the only friends BPC has because he's been banned about 9 times now and yet keeps coming back despite the fact that we all dislike his presence immensely. In light of that, can you imagine what a detestable person he must be in reality? I would posit that the reason he has devoted his life to trolling is because he gets punched in the face often when trying to speak to people in everyday life.

 

[BikeCentric]

auscyclefan94,

one thing I would expect is for Armstrong to TT significantly better next year. Losing weight fairly rapidly before you have reached your peak fitness, as he did this year, hits the power. In theory power should be one of the last things to go in a rider, so theoretically he should be much better.

Lance Lance Lance. I'm BPC/Arbiter/BritishProCycling/BanProCycling/UnbanProcyling/Max Power/Sprocket01 / EARTH TRIBE and I'm here to talk about Lance Lance Lance. I don't ever type anything about anything except Lance Lance Lance. I've been banned by the site about 9 times now because all I do is talk about Lance Lance Lance and say the same things about Lance over and over and over again!

Lance!

 

[auscyclefan94]

auscyclefan94,

one thing I would expect is for Armstrong to TT significantly better next year. Losing weight fairly rapidly before you have reached your peak fitness, as he did this year, hits the power. In theory power should be one of the last things to go in a rider, so theoretically he should be much better.

Obviously you haven't read FACT 3 of my prior comments

Consider this: we're obviously the only friends BPC has because he's been banned about 9 times now and yet keeps coming back despite the fact that we all dislike his presence immensely. In light of that, can you imagine what a detestable person he must be in reality? I would posit that the reason he has devoted his life to trolling is because he gets punched in the face often when trying to speak to people in everyday life.

Breaking news: HE's a loner. He needs to get a life.

Earth, even with my cadel evans views which may seem bias, their is undeniable fact that LA is a lying cheat. He's a fraud. Also i can speak about issues that don't relate to lance (are you lance?).

 

[Hugh Januss]

Auscyclefan has it right, Earth mother (or whatever, this time) is dreaming. Lance will finish somewhere btwn 7th-12th, depending on whether he tries too hard and pays for it with a bad day.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Consider this: we're obviously the only friends BPC has because he's been banned about 9 times now and yet keeps coming back despite the fact that we all dislike his presence immensely. In light of that, can you imagine what a detestable person he must be in reality? I would posit that the reason he has devoted his life to trolling is because he gets punched in the face often when trying to speak to people in everyday life.

Jeez, when you put it that way I almost feel sorry for him. Quit it!

 

[BikeCentric]

Thinking more on the Tour I would be surprised if Evans isn't quite a threat this summer as well. He's been very very close a number of times and that Worlds victory has to have been absolutely huge for his confidence. He should be in it for a podium placing as long as he shows up on form. It should be a really good race, much much better than this past summer.

 

[BroDeal]

Thinking more on the Tour I would be surprised if Evans isn't quite a threat this summer as well. He's been very very close a number of times and that Worlds victory has to have been absolutely huge for his confidence. He should be in it for a podium placing as long as he shows up on form. It should be a really good race, much much better than this past summer.

He has to start the year with the goal to peak at the Giro since he won't know if he will ride the Tour. He might even have to race well in the early season as the team tries to impress the ASO and get a Tour slot. So he may not be able to arrive at the TdF in top form.

I give him a decent shot at winning the Giro.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Thinking more on the Tour I would be surprised if Evans isn't quite a threat this summer as well. He's been very very close a number of times and that Worlds victory has to have been absolutely huge for his confidence. He should be in it for a podium placing as long as he shows up on form. It should be a really good race, much much better than this past summer.

I hope and think your right.

Just to lighten the mood, i posted some funny and a little naughty pics of santa in the christmas thread in the cafe.