Armstrong comments on Contador feud; "It was deliberate" - link in text.

[tubularglue]

 

[Publicus]

Indeed. But I don't think people expected him to beat FB in the time trial and quite possibly break the all time power record for climbing. People knew he was the man to beat, but this was not yet known. He did bonk in the Paris Nice, don't forget. He wasn't as invincable before the tour as he now seems after it.

I do think winning seven tours does give you a little more something than any old rider coming back to race, and this must have been clear to everybody including AC, who chose to stay in a team packed with LA's old crew. This is the real world we're dealing with. But I think we're going round in circles now. I take your point.

People expected him to win the 2009 TdF. Whether there were expectations that he would be Cancellara in an ITT (with cat 3 climb) is debatable, but also largely beside the point. And he did bonk at Paris-Nice, but he also came back at that same stage race. And went on to post a couple of nice victories and podiums in the run up to the TdF. Lance couldn't say the same thing.

My feet, as well as my head, are firmly grounded in reality. Leadership, like respect, is earned. Lance hadn't earned the leadership of the 2009 Astana TdF team. There's no plausible argument you can make that he had. 1999-2005 is irrelevant to that question if one is trying to win the TdF. It is only relevant if you are looking to get the highest Q-rating possible.

 

[L29205]

It keeps money flowing into LAF and indirectly his pockets. And keeps his sponsors in the press.

While I think LA could have found any sponsor for his team this coming year. It does not hurt to continue to have your name and that of your sponsors in the media spotlight. AC/LA rift probably helped LA secure Radioshack. While I am not a lover or hater of anyone on the pro-tour (come on people it is just bike riding), LA has proven himself a media wh0re.

 

[tubularglue]

Alberto has a public relations team managing his interests ?

Is that what i am supposed to believe?
http://www.albertocontadornotebook.info/specialedition.html


oh yeah, it's his brother. keepin' it simple

when you point a finger, theres always three pointing back at yourself

 

[hfer07]

I don't think 15% is the difference.

Once a pro rider is up to their peak power and form, nothing is left to do to improve but lose weight. That's why the pros are always going on about that issue. However, unfortunately, if you lose this weight before you are up to your top level - which is not a problem for most pros, since they have already done that bit - it can hit your power a lot.

We also know that TT power is one of the last things to go in pro-riders. So putting all this together, and taking into account that LA was a great TTist in his glory days, i think in theory he has the potential to improve quite a bit in this area - more so than in his climbing. Thus we remove much of the TTT factor that LA benefited from this year. That was really my point.

Lance Armstrong's weight
1993: 79 kg (174 lb)
1999: 74 kg (163 lb)
2009: 75 kg (165 lb)

According to you-either he lost weight too fast or miscalculate the peak time for the tour or the combination of the two made him loose power......
he came to this year's tour "one Kilo" heavier than his infamous 99 weight and yet he wasn't even close to produce any kind of acceleration at all (reckoning by 2004 he was already loosing explosiveness/acceleration) and according to you and many experts that "age would not be a factor in LA's performance"
I disregard that factor--but then I ask myself- less weight means less watts to produce when climbing to meet the speed, but he couldn't stay with AC & A/F S in the mountains at all-(even when climbing Verbier he produced 450 watts *source by 53X12.com AKA Michele Ferrari)then again-it was all gone..........


you also claimed that TT power is the last skill to fade in a Pro- But if you revise the Tour results, it was in the "Individual Time Trial" where he failed the most--And your "wise commentary" tells us that he should have retained some of that "good old power" at least to make top 10 that day...

conclusion: yes- "something" was missing for him in this tour.... that "something" is being nowadays tested for ... would you like me to spell the "something" for you?

 

[tubularglue]

team:

And why should Roberto thank his team ? for its unity, singleness of purpose, its cohesion ?

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2009/07/alberto-contador-you-may-not-know.html



4. Health (A Ticking Timebomb?) : The internal scar left in his head makes that area of his brain so hypersensitive that he often has epileptic fits. Contador takes medication daily to prevent those fits, and pays regular visits to the neurologist. Pedro Celaya, the doctor at his past team Discovery reported that as he remembers, Contador was absolutely obsessed with not doing anything strange about his health.

Perhaps Lemond and other Contador grillers in the press may like to think twice about "firing" pressuring questions at this youngster in front of cameras and the whole world. Perhaps this is the reason why he tries to avoid needless questions that try to take his mind off racing. He remembers hospital too well and does not want to end up there again.

Meanwhile, ignorance about his condition among his detractors abound and they chose to do things such as labeling him a "doper" or asking him to account for error prone "VO2 max" calculations when he had a race to take care of. Others, such as Armstrong and Bruyneel, were happily applying both psychological and political pressure on him through means of Twitter propaganda and press media. An astute observer will have noticed that these two individuals, with the help of media, were trying to manufacture a certain tension out of the team, while Contador was coolly trying to save the situation by reporting back that everything was quiet, friendly and normal at the dinner table and that the ambiance in the team was very good. Is it too hard to guess certain elements around him were trying to mentally break him from the inside while he was trying to concentrate on his career? It didn't work as planned, although Contador stated several times that this year's Tour was very difficult mentally for him.

 

[auscyclefan94]

(1) The article and quote was just before the TdF. But Bruyneel did favor Lance after the incidence on Stage 3.

(2) AC's form was known. Quite well. Everyone knew he was the man to beat. Won the Spanish TT championship. Toyed with Cadel at the Dauphine (sorry Aussiecycle). As for Lance, I don't begrudge him returning to race and gauging his form, but it was 2005 any more. He hadn't won. AC had won EVERY GT he had entered in the past two years. Every one of them. AC had been winning ALL YEAR. Lance, not so much. It's one thing if AC faltered on the road and Lance had the form and was there to take over. But that's not what happened. He was counting his past wins to earn him the current leadership. That's some pretty pathetic *** from a champion of his stature.

(3) Let's stay focused chief, we were talking about the 2009 racing year, not 2005.

(4) Apologies, I am a lawyer so it tends to slip into my forum discussions pretty easily.

I think AC was going at 80% Cadel at 90%. I don't like what he did but i'm over it. Sorry Publicus, Cadel is going to do the Giro/Tour double so tell your mate Conti that he should ride the vuelta so he can win something instead of getting whooped.

 

[karlboss]

Credit where credit is due.

Lance came 3rd. If there was no TTT chances are he would have come 3rd. Was he the 3rd strongest rider? Personally I rate frank as 3rd, and have difficulty separating 4th 5th 6th. Wiggins, Kloden, Armstrong

I think he will be stronger next year barring injury. 38, 39 not enough difference. Extra hunger from looking like a douche this year will cover that. So why stronger? His body is closer to what it needs to be to be a road cyclist. I mean runners and guys trying to look fit carry different muscles, I think you lose something changing that. One season competing can't hurt either.

However stronger than this year, will place him in a big list of also rans fighting for the last step of the podium.

Any questions?

 

[Mellow Velo]

I see Lance was promoted to co-Tour favourite, overnight on the fanboy fantasy thread.

It still amazes me that some posters chose to completely ignore factoring in his excessive age, when expounding their unsubstantiated theories on next year's improvement levels.

As has been pointed out on another thread. The oldest Tour winner, to date was 34. The gulf to nearly 39 is emmense and unrealistic.

To continue with the overnight fantasy theme, I suggest, for the ardent fanboy, the following:

The Shack's new logo.



And in the BPC/Arbiter/Sprocket/Earthy vision.
Lance modelling the new team strip.

 

[BroDeal]

I think we need to factor in that Andy S should be a lot better next year. He will spend a lot of time working on his time trial because of the long ITT in next year's Tdf; and in this year's last ITT, he was a mere 15 secs behind Armstrong. Does anyone see Armstrong improving more than Andy?

 

[thehog]

I think we need to factor in that Andy S should be a lot better next year. He will spend a lot of time working on his time trial because of the long ITT in next year's Tdf; and in this year's last ITT, he was a mere 15 secs behind Armstrong. Does anyone see Armstrong improving more than Andy?

If Tiger Woods is shagging everything from Las Vegas to New York then I'll believe anything!

My biggest worry is he's going to come out next year and smash everyone to pieces in the ITT. Remember LA at the 2005 Paris-Nice TT compared to what he did to a blood doped Ullrich in July of that year?

PS Read the comments on this page below the article: http://www.austin360.com/recreation/content/recreation/stories/2009/12/1203lancebook.html

 

[BroDeal]

If Tiger Woods is shagging everything from Las Vegas to New York then I'll believe anything!

I am beginning to think that Tiger must be doping. WIth the number of women was he seeing at the same time...

 

[Tangled Tango]

While I expect A. Schleck and Contador to beat Lance handily... where does the belief that Lance will get worse from this past year come from?

We all know the team will sacrifice for him... because that's what he demands from a team. And we know many of those guys are pretty strong riders. I don't see any reason he wouldn't be in the mix for 3rd again next year.

Simple......no team time trial.

 

[Tangled Tango]

Nibali might be good too.

Yeah, I had my eye on him during the 09 Ventoux stage but he didn´t have it. He could improve into a serious climber.

 

[Tangled Tango]

Why do you believe this given we know Armstrong was a better time trialer than most of these riders? I don't understand your reasoning.

"WAS" is the key word here "WAS" a better TT.

 

[Berzin]

I just don't see everyone else gaining much ground on Lance.

Gaining ground on Lance? First of all, it was his team that dragged him all around France at this year's Tour. The team time trial and severe lack of mountain top finishes played into this. Also the severe lack of attacking by rivals only looking to consolidate their top ten places. A terrible course, the help from his team and overall meekness by the peloton was what got him that podium spot.

But look at his results in the the prologue and the individual time trial. That's the REAL Armstrong. Nowhere near the top three.

I expect the battle for the last podium spot to be between Frank, Lance, Wiggins, Evans and a couple of others... I don't see all of those guys simply jumping past Lance like many expect.

If Armstrong has to actually answer attacks with his own legs or Heaven forbid attack on his own, you'll see it's not going to be Sestrieres circa 1999.

All this guy has left are the toxic fumes emanating from his mouth.

 

[kurtinsc]

Everyone points to the lack of a TTT... and there is a serious lack of ITT kilometers too.

But the fact is that really doesn't help people too much. Who was as good or better then Lance in the mountains?

Contador and Andy Schleck? Definitely.

Frank Schleck? Up until Ventoux he was better. But Lance beat him by 40 seconds and Astana won... 40 seconds in the TTT. I'd say with the same amount of ITT km (5 km more actually) it's reasonable to say they'll be close to each other. Wiggins? He was the one favorite I thought Lance out-performed in the climbs. Evans? Bit of a wildcard... he wasn't really on form last year and was hurt badly by the TTT. Same goes for Menchov. Lance DID outperform both in the mountains in the last tour for whatever it's worth. Kloden? He'll be working for Lance, he doesn't factor in. Nibali? Lance outclimbed him. Kreuziger? Lance outclimbed him. Vandevelde? Lance outclimbed him.


Look... he's not going to win. He has virtually no chance aside from a mass crash taking Andy and Contador out. But I just can't see how any think he wouldn't be in the mix for 3rd. He climbed with or outclimbed everyone else aside from Frank Schleck on a couple stages... and frank lost a lot of time to Lance in the two ITT's.

Lance got 10th in the prologue. The GC guys who wouldn't be working for him next year ahead were Contador, Wiggins, Evans, Nibali and Kreuziger. The last 3 were by 17 seconds or less.

In the other ITT, he got 16th. The only GC guys ahead were Contador, Wiggins and Evans. And Evans had taken a few stages off once he was out of the GC race, losing tons of time but saving energy.

Look... I'm not a huge Lance fan... but he didn't look all that washed up climbing Ventoux. 5th at the finish and first up behind the break, Contador and Andy. I think the tales of his TOTAL demise are overstated.

 

[Bala Verde]

QUESTION What happened to thread tags?

We were forced to remove them due to misuse.

 

[Timeless]

When that moment came, Armstrong then accepted Contador was the stronger rider and domestiqued for Contador. So lets get the record straight.

Mmm...I appear to have missed that. Did he carry water for his team leader, or sacrifice his own strength when pacing his leader? When did this happen?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Mmm...I appear to have missed that. Did he carry water for his team leader, or sacrifice his own strength when pacing his leader? When did this happen?

I seem to recall Lance snatching a water bottle that was destined for Contador, from his grasp. Does that count?

 

[Tangled Tango]

I seem to recall Lance snatching a water bottle that was destined for Contador, from his grasp. Does that count?

Of course it counts; it´s the old I´m helping you by making you stronger ploy first introduced by Hinault to help Lemond in 86. Isn´t it obvious? AC did win so LA must of helped.

 

[richwagmn]

I think we need to factor in that Andy S should be a lot better next year. He will spend a lot of time working on his time trial because of the long ITT in next year's Tdf; and in this year's last ITT, he was a mere 15 secs behind Armstrong. Does anyone see Armstrong improving more than Andy?

This is what I don't understand about the LA will improve next year and these others guys won't theory. AC is in his prime years and AS is just getting there. Surely these too will also improve by at least as much as LA if not more.

 

[thehog]

Armstrong was plugging his book on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart last night, and in the typical 'talking sports without really talking sports' way, dropped a few shots at his old teammate, and reigning Tour de France champion, Alberto Contador.

"It wasn't a great relationship. We're not having any tapas later on."
"He's a good rider. Whatever." "We've got our own team." "We're divorced."


link: http://eztvlinks.com/the-daily-show-december-2-2009-lance-armstrong/

 

[thehog]

Armstrong was plugging his book on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart last night, and in the typical 'talking sports without really talking sports' way, dropped a few shots at his old teammate, and reigning Tour de France champion, Alberto Contador.

"It wasn't a great relationship. We're not having any tapas later on."
"He's a good rider. Whatever." "We've got our own team." "We're divorced."

Is he being racist that all Spanish people eat tapas?

Geez he's carving it up for the book!

 

[kurtinsc]

This is what I don't understand about the LA will improve next year and these others guys won't theory. AC is in his prime years and AS is just getting there. Surely these too will also improve by at least as much as LA if not more.

Probably.

Lance's improvement will come from getting more bike time (as will Ivan Basso). Most expect guys who miss 2-3 years to need a full season before their bodies adjust to major racing again.

That improvement will be countered by whatever decrease in performance he gets from aging. It could be a net positive, or a net negative. I'm not sure anyone knows how much either factor will help or hurt. Going into the Tour, Lance had ridden The tour down under, the tour of california, milano sanremo, a couple of days of the tour of castilla and leon, the tour of the Gila, the Giro and the nevada city classic. About 40 days of racing after a 3 year break. And he did look stronger toward the end of the tour (5th on Ventoux) then he did early on.

Andy should improve a decent amount due to age and experience... Contador may as well (though it's possible he's already at his peak).

I honestly don't expect Lance to compete with either one of them unless something happens (a crash, not eating and bonking on a big climb, a windy stage where Lance can get a couple of minutes). But the fact is he outclimbed every contender BUT Andy and Alberto on Ventoux last year... which was thought to be the big climb of the Tour.