• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Armstrong comments on Contador feud; "It was deliberate" - link in text.

Page 8 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Earth Tribe

BANNED
Dec 2, 2009
82
0
0
Visit site
peloton said:
+1

Astana (Klöden & LA) chasing their own teammate spoke volumes.

Contador was never in trouble so it didn't matter. You have to make the most of every second in this sport or LA would have been off the podium and everyone would be crowing about him getting beaten by Wiggins and Frank Schleck.
 
Nov 17, 2009
2,388
0
0
Visit site
Mellow Velo said:
Actually, this is a very good indicator to Lance's prospects. Simoni began his decline two, or even three seasons ago, depending where you take your marker from.
So, he was slipping by 35 or there abouts.
A 38, pushing 39 year old, would have to be very, very different, to get his performance curve moving in the opposite direction.

As for Contador having already peaked, at 26? Well that's just really wishful thinking and contrary to all your views on Lance.


I don't think Lance improved much once he came back from cancer. He didn't get worse... but he didn't get a ton better either. He just maintained a long peak.

By saying Contador may have peaked, I'm saying he might stay at this incredible level for the next decade instead of improving more and turning into some sort of superhuman alien.
 

Earth Tribe

BANNED
Dec 2, 2009
82
0
0
Visit site
kurtinsc said:
By saying Contador may have peaked, I'm saying he might stay at this incredible level for the next decade instead of improving more and turning into some sort of superhuman alien.

Yeah he's already made the leap that champion riders make at one point in their career, so there's a good chance that he won't get much better next year. I don't think he's going to have it as easy as this year. It won't look as easy.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
1
0
Visit site
The revisionist history of the Armstrong groupies is comical. Attacking your team leader is smart tactics, chasing your team leader is fine. When Armstrong suddenly became a GT rider at 29 this was said to be normal, even though we all know it is not. Why is it that the same groupies say that Contador has peaked at 26?

Are they *** or just trying to derail another thread?
 
Mar 12, 2009
2,521
0
0
Visit site
Earth Tribe said:
Yeah he's already made the leap that champion riders make at one point in their career, so there's a good chance that he won't get much better next year. I don't think he's going to have it as easy as this year. It won't look as easy.

You hope.
I don't see anyone beating AC/AS at the moment, maybe Kreutziger, certainly not a 39y LA unless he is back with Ferrari and his magic orange juice.
 
Aug 3, 2009
131
0
0
Visit site
Yeah, there is a chance Lance may improve and a chance he might not, just as there is with Alberto. Different individuals peak at different ages. But physiologically speaking and considering standard deviations there is a far better chance of a rider of 26/27 years of age improving year on year than one more than a decade older.

Similarly, the greatest threats to Contador come not from those older than him but those younger who may be able to improve quicker. Even if he now just has a prolonged plateu phase look more to those in the 23/24/25 age bracket to knock him of his pedestal in the next few years than those in their mid to late thirties.

It's the Gesink's, Kruiziger's, Martin's, Nibali's, Schleck's that make this sport look like it's going to be exciting in the coming years, not the old guard. That said there are still several 30+ riders capable of getting into the top ten at the Tour and the includes Lance, Levi and Kloden. The only ones I can see with a reasonable shot at the podium though are Evans and Menchov.
 

Earth Tribe

BANNED
Dec 2, 2009
82
0
0
Visit site
peloton said:
You hope.
I don't see anyone beating AC/AS at the moment, maybe Kreutziger, certainly not a 39y LA unless he is back with Ferrari and his magic orange juice.

Yeah both kurtinsc and I agree that AC and AS will be very hard to beat. But given that AC has already made that leap that riders make in their career, there is a good chance that he has peaked, just as Armstrong never really improved after he had made that leap a few years later. Here's hoping anyway.

Oh, by the way, this isn't the place to discuss doping.
 

Earth Tribe

BANNED
Dec 2, 2009
82
0
0
Visit site
Kingsley A said:
Yeah, there is a chance Lance may improve and a chance he might not, just as there is with Alberto. Different individuals peak at different ages. But physiologically speaking and considering standard deviations there is a far better chance of a rider of 26/27 years of age improving year on year than one more than a decade older.

You make a good point, and its true that's generally the case. But the theory some of us were making is that it usually takes a rider a couple of years to get back to top form after they have been out for a few years, so there is a good chance Armstrong can improve a reasonable amount, just as Basso was saying in that interview. It's just going to be a question of how much the age will off set that. Nobody really knows.

Contador, however, was in the form of his life this year, and in the last couple of years has already improved a dramatic amount - becoming one the best two time trailers in the world etc. Maybe he has now gotten to that peak, just as Armstrong did, and thus has not a lot left to improve on. I certainly fancy AS to be closer to him.
 
Earth Tribe said:
Contador was never in trouble so it didn't matter. You have to make the most of every second in this sport or LA would have been off the podium and everyone would be crowing about him getting beaten by Wiggins and Frank Schleck.

It was actually the stupidest thing than Lance did in the whole race. Making the pace for the chase group with Kloden most of the way until they both tired and slipped off the back of the others near the top, cost both Contador and Armstrong and Kloden time over their rivals on other teams.

Well except for the serial twitting, that was stupider.
 
Aug 3, 2009
131
0
0
Visit site
Earth Tribe said:
You make a good point, and its true that's generally the case. But the theory some of us were making is that it usually takes a rider a couple of years to get back to top form after they have been out for a few years, so there is a good chance Armstrong can improve a reasonable amount, just as Basso was saying in that interview. It's just going to be a question of how much the age will off set that. Nobody really knows.

Contador, however, was in the form of his life this year, and in the last couple of years has already improved a dramatic amount - becoming one the best two time trailers in the world etc. Maybe he has now gotten to that peak, just as Armstrong did, and thus has not a lot left to improve on. I certainly fancy AS to be closer to him.

Firstly you are talking about a hypothesis not a theory. A theory is always supported by multiple facts. Please do not confuse these two words. It is a cheap trick, mostly used by politicians, religious extremists and the sensationalist media for the sole purpose of misleading the public.

Secondly you deliberately ignored the part of my post where I suggested that LA can improve and AC may have plateaued. I just suggested that it is statistically highly unlikely for both to be true based on both historical and current data.

Have you ever played backgammon? It is a game of great skill that depends heavily on luck. One does not play the back-game unless one already has a sturdy side-prime built, especially if there is money on the table unless one wants to risk the loss to be automatically doubled by being gammoned or worse still doubled twice by being backgammoned.

Like in backgammon, one looks at where the men are on the board and plays the probabilities with each roll. You are backing something that though not impossible is hugely improbable. It could lead to a spectacular win but is far more likely to lead to humiliation.

If someone offers a double my advice is to you is to forfeit rather than accept.
 
Earth Tribe said:
You make a good point, and its true that's generally the case. But the theory some of us were making is that it usually takes a rider a couple of years to get back to top form after they have been out for a few years, so there is a good chance Armstrong can improve a reasonable amount, just as Basso was saying in that interview. It's just going to be a question of how much the age will off set that. Nobody really knows.

Contador, however, was in the form of his life this year, and in the last couple of years has already improved a dramatic amount - becoming one the best two time trailers in the world etc. Maybe he has now gotten to that peak, just as Armstrong did, and thus has not a lot left to improve on. I certainly fancy AS to be closer to him.

And at the same time, you argue that it was reasonable to give him leadership of the team, even though in his first year back (according to your "theory") he wasn't in top form.
 
Kingsley A said:
Firstly you are talking about a hypothesis not a theory. A theory is always supported by multiple facts. Please do not confuse these two words. It is a cheap trick, mostly used by politicians, religious extremists and the sensationalist media for the sole purpose of misleading the public.

Secondly you deliberately ignored the part of my post where I suggested that LA can improve and AC may have plateaued. I just suggested that it is statistically highly unlikely for both to be true based on both historical and current data.

Have you ever played backgammon? It is a game of great skill that depends heavily on luck. One does not play the back-game unless one already has a sturdy side-prime built, especially if there is money on the table unless one wants to risk the loss to be automatically doubled by being gammoned or worse still doubled twice by being backgammoned.

Like in backgammon, one looks at where the men are on the board and plays the probabilities with each roll. You are backing something that though not impossible is hugely improbable. It could lead to a spectacular win but is far more likely to lead to humiliation.

If someone offers a double my advice is to you is to forfeit rather than accept.

This is some of the most impressive trash talking I've ever read. Well done sir. Well done.
 
Mar 19, 2009
1,796
0
0
Visit site
Armstrong is becoming my hero now.... He´s just so ridiculous he´s hilarious.. Remember what he said in march.. restated... That´s an brilliant quote from him.

He´s amazing, I hope he keeps twittering his madness, I think next year has the potential for some great quotes from him..
 

Earth Tribe

BANNED
Dec 2, 2009
82
0
0
Visit site
Kingsley A said:
Firstly you are talking about a hypothesis not a theory. A theory is always supported by multiple facts. Please do not confuse these two words. It is a cheap trick, mostly used by politicians, religious extremists and the sensationalist media for the sole purpose of misleading the public.

Interesting theory.

Secondly you deliberately ignored the part of my post where I suggested that LA can improve and AC may have plateaued. I just suggested that it is statistically highly unlikely for both to be true based on both historical and current data.

It's not certain in the least, I agree, but to me it doesn't seem "highly unlikely" at all. Contador is already producing more power than any cyclist that has ever lived going up hill (apparently) and has really come on in the last two years. How much better can he possibly get?

Have you ever played backgammon.

Can't say I have, but thanks for the info.
 

Earth Tribe

BANNED
Dec 2, 2009
82
0
0
Visit site
Publicus said:
And at the same time, you argue that it was reasonable to give him leadership of the team, even though in his first year back (according to your "theory") he wasn't in top form.

No I thought it should be decided on the road. Like in Mad Max.
 
Aug 3, 2009
131
0
0
Visit site
Earth Tribe said:
Interesting theory.
Not a theory. Merely a statement of the definition of well defined terms with a little socio-political conjecture on the side.



Earth Tribe said:
It's not certain in the least, I agree, but to me it doesn't seem "highly unlikely" at all. Contador is already producing more power than any cyclist that has ever lived going up hill (apparently) and has really come on in the last two years. How much better can he possibly get?
This is the great unknown isn't it? There must have been a time in Merckx's career when people asked the same thing. The fact reamains that he is at an age where year on year improvement is to be expected in cycling and the vast majority of other sports, hitting his prime in another two to three years time. Of course he may be outside of the bell-curve but we won't know that until he retires.

But of course my conjecture was conditional. It was based on both AC failing to improve and LA improving at the rate of a much younger man. Either or indeed both are possible but the combination is improbable. The later condition especially.


Earth Tribe said:
Can't say I have, but thanks for the info.
All I can say is learn it. Along with of chess and go! it is almost certainly one of the three greatest boardgames ever created by mankind.
 
Aug 3, 2009
131
0
0
Visit site
Publicus said:
This is some of the most impressive trash talking I've ever read. Well done sir. Well done.

Thank you. I think?

Trash talking was not my aim. Maybe I would have done better by suggesting betting on a 10/Jack suited with three Aces on the flop?
 
I'm just curious about the idea of a fabricated conflict versus a real one. Since Armstrong and Contador had real differences, is the purpose of this interview to cast Contador as the bad guy that Lance can beat down next July? In addition, since he's not the same guy that he was in the early 2000s, does this mean that he owes Jan an apology?