Armstrong Not the Focus?

[Black-Balled]

Armstrong is the focus, just not what he *used* necessarily. Armstrong was on a mission to basically OWN cycling: bikes, parts, clothes, accessories, a little race called the Tour de France, and... <fill in the obvious blank that the most of the peloton can't survive big GT's without>

Think about it. Why else do six Feds fly to Europe? Fresh croissants?

Coz the taxpayers are buyin!

 

[Barrus]

People, shall we get back to Armstrong, or at least the case that is built around USPS doping and leave the other discussions for other topics.

 

[jimmypop]

Agreed. It does appear the Pantani hit multiple drugs so hard that his body had issues producing natural levels.

Continuing the aside: Toward the end of his life, he'd pick up a few ounces of cocaine at a time and cook off the bases Richard Pryor-style. I'm still not sure I believe that he'd personally go through an ounce in two-week span, but he was certainly binging for an extended period.

If anything, his body was no stranger to foreign chemicals.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Was he the first person to test positive with a broken leg whilst alive? or the first to test positive with broken leg when not dead?

Beloki?...

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

People, shall we get back to Armstrong, or at least the case that is built around USPS doping and leave the other discussions for other topics.

Hey, I thought the thread title was 'Armstrong NOT the focus'. Sorry, just being a d*ck...

 

[Berzin]

The results of the investigation should therefore be less politically questionable than a classic anti-doping case where there is often a lot of inbreeding and too many agendas for the results to be considered independent by many. Who knows if Jeff Novitzky even knows how to ride a bike?

I agree with you, but I just wanted to set the record straight on a little detail-
Novitzky isn't the only agent collecting evidence on the case. In fact, he's not even the lead investigator.

That honor falls to Doug Miller.

 

[thehog]

Beloki?...

I thought he was the first person to test positive with a broken hip whilst not dead. Floyd was the second.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

I thought he was the first person to test positive with a broken hip whilst not dead. Floyd was the second.

Floyd was the fist to test positive with a dead hip whilst not being dead.

On topic... hopefully they've got enough to get the the suppliers, pushers and users.

 

[frenchfry]

I agree with you, but I just wanted to set the record straight on a little detail-
Novitzky isn't the only agent collecting evidence on the case. In fact, he's not even the lead investigator.

That honor falls to Doug Miller.

I may be nit picking, but isn't Miller the prosecutor?

In any case there appears to be a solid team on the case. I must admit that when I think about it it's pretty amazing that Armstrong is the subject (or not the subject) of a federal investigation. Who would have imagined that 8 months ago.

 

[Benotti69]

I may be nit picking, but isn't Miller the prosecutor?

In any case there appears to be a solid team on the case. I must admit that when I think about it it's pretty amazing that Armstrong is the subject (or not the subject) of a federal investigation. Who would have imagined that 8 months ago.

Floyd Landis

 

[frenchfry]

Floyd Landis

I really doubt that Floyd would have thought things would turn out this way, though I could be wrong. I really don't think his motivation was to initiate a federal investigation but rather to lay out the raw truth in order to ease his conscience and maybe help improve cycling. There again I might be wrong - maybe vengence was a motivation as well. You must admit that Armstrong has seriously ****ed off a lot of people over the years, maybe Floyd figured it was payback time.

 

[Digger]

About the focus. Now that Lance is retired again - get JB out of the sport maybe through this investigation and that is serious progession.

 

[Polish]

I may be nit picking, but isn't Miller the prosecutor?

In any case there appears to be a solid team on the case. I must admit that when I think about it it's pretty amazing that Armstrong is the subject (or not the subject) of a federal investigation. Who would have imagined that 8 months ago.

I agree that Novitzky and Millar are a solid team. Way solid, to be sure.

And as long as they stay away from Lance they should do just fine.

But if they should go up against Lance, they will get spanked Big Time.
No shame in that though. It has happened to plenty of worthy adversaries.
Still can hold there heads up high.

 

[BotanyBay]

I really doubt that Floyd would have thought things would turn out this way, though I could be wrong. I really don't think his motivation was to initiate a federal investigation but rather to lay out the raw truth in order to ease his conscience and maybe help improve cycling. There again I might be wrong - maybe vengence was a motivation as well. You must admit that Armstrong has seriously ****ed off a lot of people over the years, maybe Floyd figured it was payback time.

Six short months ago, Floyd would have been willing to take a slot on RadioShack and stay quiet forever. But he probably sat down and said "I won the tour-day-fricken-france and 4 years later, I can't find even a local team to ride with". I think his motivation was "F-all". Burn the whole mutha down.

When he spoke out 6 mos ago, even then he said he did not feel guilty about having doped, as "everyone else did it". So this has nothing to do with easing a conscience. He saw his crap situation and refused to properly acknowledge his own role in his downfall. He's still blaming others.

I'm glad he spilled his beans. I just don't think he's done it with proper humility.

 

[Slo & Old]

And as long as they stay away from Lance they should do just fine.

But if they should go up against Lance, they will get spanked Big Time.No shame in that though. It has happened to plenty of worthy adversaries.
Still can hold there heads up high.[/QUOTE]

Let's hope this is not the case.

 

[frenchfry]

I agree that Novitzky and Millar are a solid team. Way solid, to be sure.

And as long as they stay away from Lance they should do just fine.

But if they should go up against Lance, they will get spanked Big Time.
No shame in that though. It has happened to plenty of worthy adversaries.
Still can hold there heads up high.

Maybe you have insider information that Armstrong is going to pull out the "independant investigation" trick again. I'm certain Vrijman is available. Yup, that is certain to make those federal guys look like fools.

 

[frenchfry]

Six short months ago, Floyd would have been willing to take a slot on RadioShack and stay quiet forever. But he probably sat down and said "I won the tour-day-fricken-france and 4 years later, I can't find even a local team to ride with". I think his motivation was "F-all". Burn the whole mutha down.

When he spoke out 6 mos ago, even then he said he did not feel guilty about having doped, as "everyone else did it". So this has nothing to do with easing a conscience. He saw his crap situation and refused to properly acknowledge his own role in his downfall. He's still blaming others.

I'm glad he spilled his beans. I just don't think he's done it with proper humility.

Easing his conscience regarding his big lie, not his doping. I don't think I have ever heard him say he regretted doping - it was just a normal occurance. I do believe that he regrets his lie and the way he handled the situation - although I still haven't forgotten just how pathetic he and his cohorts were and mabe a little more humility wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

[Oldman]

I may be nit picking, but isn't Miller the prosecutor?

In any case there appears to be a solid team on the case. I must admit that when I think about it it's pretty amazing that Armstrong is the subject (or not the subject) of a federal investigation. Who would have imagined that 8 months ago.

I have a feeling this investigation started long before Floyd came out. There has been USADA activity regarding internet and international drug traffic separate of Balco; including investigations into baseball player connections with Puerto Rico and South America. Winter baseball is a large component of a developing player's "preparation" for Spring training and team tryouts.
Floyd's admissions probably accelerated an already ongoing search for sources and money trails.

 

[Berzin]

I'm glad he spilled his beans. I just don't think he's done it with proper humility.

In an imperfect world with complicated and conflicting values and morals, some altruistic and others self-serving and vindictive existing within all of us simultaneously, situations like this cannot be served to us on the pious platter we'd prefer.

We just have to deal with it.

If Landis acted out of a thirst for revenge, then good for him. How many times has Armstrong done exactly the same thing?

What Armstrong is learning is the age-old lesson-to get back at a remorseless bully, you have to speak to them in the only language they understand, which is to punch them right in the face.

Armstrong is no longer protected by the cloak of omerta, which turned most well-meaning lesser players in Armstrong's reign of terror into blithering cowards. They saw those who spoke out marginalized and thought only of their careers and families. That is a tough choice for any man to have to consider.

I'm sure it must have been quite emasculating to have one's testicles cut off in public like Simeoni and a few others. He was one of the riders who suffered the most, publicly humiliated by the peloton and barred from riding his own national Tour by this yellow-clad ape.

So whatever Landis' reasons were for exposing Armstrong and Bruyneel, that's neither here nor there. It's not a viable argument for obstructing justice or sweeping this under the rug.

The conjecture will end as far as Armstrong's drug use the second we hear that another rider confirmed the organized team doping.

The ball is no longer in Armstrong's court. Now we all must wait and see what the next move will be.

 

[BotanyBay]

And as long as they stay away from Lance they should do just fine.

But if they should go up against Lance, they will get spanked Big Time.No shame in that though. It has happened to plenty of worthy adversaries.
Still can hold there heads up high.

Let's hope this is not the case.[/QUOTE]

No, Lance has this big "don't p-e-e in the soup" complex going. There's no staying away from him, really.

 

[Oldman]

Let's hope this is not the case.

No, Lance has this big "don't p-e-e in the soup" complex going. There's no staying away from him, really.[/QUOTE]

That's long been Lance's problem: he's been cooking the soup along with the UCI.

 

[D-Queued]

Very interesting article on CN today that seems to shed some new light on the direction of the FDA investigation. Just read the entire thread and it doesn't appear to have been commented on yet:

Individual doping likely not the focus of FDA US Postal investigation, says source

Their mandate is to approve trials for new drugs, monitor administration and the distribution of new drugs. They look at the import and export of drugs from the US."

"It could be a case of distribution of a drug before it's approved. It could be clinical trial drugs that are being used without approval, distribution of drugs by someone without a license - but being the receiver of drugs they wouldn't be interested in."

...

"If an individual athlete was involved in the investigation it would have to be because that individual athlete was involved in distributing drugs or something that's not approved"

 

[Johnny Rotten]

I am telling you all...

Mark me post here, I have a strong gut feeling Armstrong is not gonna take a fall on this doping investigation.

Sure he will be tarnished but no charges will be leveled against him and he will continue on.

I think this recent article is the beginning of the ground work being layed to shift the investigation away from him.

Sad but true really.

 

[tockit]

Latest on Cyclingnews http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ind...us-of-fda-us-postal-investigation-says-source

TheHog and I had this converstion in another thread but I can't find it. The latest article presents a case that Novitzky is going after the source and not the individual drug users.

I'm still thinking all of the depositions by the cyclists will stay sealed and we will only learn something that was discussed when the dope ring gets busted.

This has probably been covered, but I don't keep up with this stuff as well as I should.

Could someone explain to me what jurisdiciton the United States FDA has over an international doping ring, operating largely in foreign countries?

I could see the Postal money possibly being used to buy doping products could be pursued, but how can a US agency charge someone (for example), from Italy for distributing drugs to someone else?

I don't get it ???

 

[flicker]

This has probably been covered, but I don't keep up with this stuff as well as I should.

Could someone explain to me what jurisdiciton the United States FDA has over an international doping ring, operating largely in foreign countries?

I could see the Postal money possibly being used to buy doping products could be pursued, but how can a US agency charge someone (for example), from Italy for distributing drugs to someone else?

I don't get it ???

I really like your avatar, Greg and Lance. Being frommerika we are all about democracy and furn doping rings don't cut it see.

We like are doping rings here on merikan soil. Oh yeah did I forget to tell you we love democracy?