Armstrong's numbers

[BroDeal]

But even though LA finished 12th at the Giro, look at the sort of riders who he finished amongst - David Arroyo, Kevin Seeldaeyers, Jose Serpa. Not exactly the cream of the GC crop, and not exactly "the top of the sport". And 10-15 minutes behind the "real" GC riders like Menchov, Sastre, DiLuca, Leipheimer - really, the only GC rider he finished ahead of was Simoni, and that was only because Simoni cracked. So yeah, he finished 12th overall but it was not a very impressive ride and certainly no sign of the dominating GT rider of the past - signs of the old LA only emerged during the Tour, which is why I believe that he may have ridden the Giro clean but topped up for the Tour.

What is considered clean, though? If he dopes during training, tops off before the Giro, but does not do anything during the three weeks, is that clean? Relative to DiLuca and Menchov it might be clean.

Hamilton's doping schedule involved extensive amounts of doping during training.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Seems to have quietened down nicely around here. While "Dr" Hombre composed mildly amusing fantasies, Illogical Cranium was just a raving loon.

Anyhow, I suppose the Bio Passport system, is ideal for micro dosing, especially, when you have been in "retirement" and can wave the 6 months registration rule.
Get the levels reasonably high before starting, must have been the goal of many riders.
Just "top up" that little bit more, when it is essential, as LA's figures highlight.
The Giro would have been ridden under the regular regime.

 

[UnBanProCycling]

Seems to have quietened down nicely around here. While "Dr" Hombre composed mildly amusing fantasies, Illogical Cranium was just a raving loon.

Yes I did actually agree with them being banned. They didn't add anything to the discussion and appeared to just be here to insult people.

One thing we can't allow, however, is people being banned simply because they hold a minority view. That would be wholly wrong. I'm sure we are all agreed on that.

 

[BikeCentric]

Yes I did actually agree with them being banned. They didn't add anything to the discussion and appeared to just be here to insult people.

One thing we can't allow, however, is people being banned simply because they hold a minority view. That would be wholly wrong. I'm sure we are all agreed on that.

Good for you buddy - don't let THE MAN keep you down! Banned three times and you just keep coming back. Pathetic is what you are. The uninvited guest. Psst: no one likes you, and you are different and strange.

 

[Digger]

So BPC was banned? Happy days..even if he is back in another guise, it's progress, as I was about to throw my hat at this forum because of the trolling. Thank you mods.

 

[Cobber]

So BPC was banned? Happy days..even if he is back in another guise, it's progress, as I was about to throw my hat at this forum because of the trolling. Thank you mods.

I disagree. Banning someone only to have then reappear 10 minutes later under another username is pointless. All it does is make all of us have to update our ignore list.

I don't believe in censorship of people that have a different point of view from my own. However, I do believe in "sanctioning" people whose sole purpose is disrupting the flow of threads.

 

[BikeCentric]

I disagree. Banning someone only to have then reappear 10 minutes later under another username is pointless. All it does is make all of us have to update our ignore list.

I don't believe in censorship of people that have a different point of view from my own. However, I do believe in "sanctioning" people whose sole purpose is disrupting the flow of threads.

Agreed, opposing viewpoints are always welcome - especially when made in a rational and concise manner. Spirited debate and discussion is good for the brain.

However, annoying douchebaggery with made-up crap, passive-aggressive behavior, playing stupid games with multiple usernames, not to mention getting banned mutiple times and coming back again immediately is most certainly not welcome (anywhere).

 

[Ripper]

Seems to have quietened down nicely around here. While "Dr" Hombre composed mildly amusing fantasies, Illogical Cranium was just a raving loon.

I think I said nutter, but loon works as well!

The Arbiter, BPC, UBPC thing is a weird one - speaks to difficulties actually banning a person?

Then there is WonderLance - ? This is one bizzaro-el-weirdo cat.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Agreed, opposing viewpoints are always welcome - especially when made in a rational and concise manner. Spirited debate and discussion is good for the brain.

However, annoying douchebaggery with made-up crap, passive-aggressive behavior, playing stupid games with multiple usernames, not to mention getting banned mutiple times and coming back again immediately is most certainly not welcome (anywhere).

It may not be welcome here at Cycling News forum but it sure is tolerated.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

...This would give credibility to the idea that his Giro performance came close to a clean performance...It would be an interesting concept, since we can then compare the two races in a qualitative manner - bad days, relative TT performance, recuperation in the third week, etc.

It does give some support to the idea that he didn't do much blood doping for the Giro. The most interesting part to me is it might give some idea of the potential un-blood-boosted performance level of a 37 year old with interrupted training (collar-bone/3 years off) who never showed promise as a GT rider in his early 20s.........which in turn gives an inkling about what could be achieved by other riders, although of course no other riders have a heart the size of a fiat bambina.

 

[ChrisE]

I think I said nutter, but loon works as well!

The Arbiter, BPC, UBPC thing is a weird one - speaks to difficulties actually banning a person?

Then there is WonderLance - ? This is one bizzaro-el-weirdo cat.

I found them highly amusing while I lurked around here. Is wonderlance banned with illogical cranium, hombre, BPC, and RHitaliano? Was it like carpet-banning? Boo.

Funnier yet is the reaction they stirred up. Breaks up the monotony.

BTW back to the topic, if y'all think LA is doing something other than anybody else you are on crack. Also, he is 38 off of 3 years retirement. Regardless of what you think come out of your pity houses and show some respect to that at least. This place is like a less moderated DPF....same misery in LA's achievements being passed amongst the denizens lol.

 

[Hugh Januss]

....same misery in LA's achievements being passed amongst the denizens lol.

I hear what you are saying and I'm tempted to agree, but then TFF will post about the lying Lance and I'll be tempted to agree with him. I don't think most of the folks who are anti Lance would be nearly so much so, even leaving out the doping, if it were not for the extent of the propaganda campaign that he hides behind. The whole if you don't love Lance then you love cancer thing. He is like a mafia don, and lots of people embrace the lies that are Lance Armstrong. Worse they can't stop bringing them into every discussion on what is wrong in pro cycling. It is not misery it is pure old fashioned contempt.

 

[Anonymous]

I found them highly amusing while I lurked around here. Is wonderlance banned with illogical cranium, hombre, BPC, and RHitaliano? Was it like carpet-banning? Boo.

Funnier yet is the reaction they stirred up. Breaks up the monotony.

BTW back to the topic, if y'all think LA is doing something other than anybody else you are on crack. Also, he is 38 off of 3 years retirement. Regardless of what you think come out of your pity houses and show some respect to that at least. This place is like a less moderated DPF....same misery in LA's achievements being passed amongst the denizens lol.

No, it was carpet-troll-banning and yeah, it was past due.

So I guess your position is everyone's doping. It may be true, but I don't think it is. Why on earth should people celebrate a 38 year old fraud? Respect is generally earned. LA may demand respect from you but he's not getting it from me. I mean, if that's ok with you...

 

[ChrisE]

No, it was carpet-troll-banning and yeah, it was past due.

So I guess your position is everyone's doping. It may be true, but I don't think it is. Why on earth should people celebrate a 38 year old fraud? Respect is generally earned. LA may demand respect from you but he's not getting it from me. I mean, if that's ok with you...

I remember a few days ago you giving props to illogical cranium for some post. I guess you turned sour when he fought back when he started getting attacked? The only person he attacked was RHital. Why the ban?

Anyway, I don't give a shyt about that so let's discuss this. Yeah, I think most dope. I think LA beat a doped peloton during his 7 straight. I think LA doped and still dopes. So what? Look at the effort here to prove it, and look at the thought here that he was not doped during the giro. So, there is some guess that a 38 year old off 3 years retirement finished 12th in a GT after a broken collarbone?

Get real, with either the charade or the venom. If he didn't dope, give him props. Putting down that performance just proves asshattery.

 

[Jonathan]

BTW back to the topic, if y'all think LA is doing something other than anybody else you are on crack. Also, he is 38 off of 3 years retirement. Regardless of what you think come out of your pity houses and show some respect to that at least. This place is like a less moderated DPF....same misery in LA's achievements being passed amongst the denizens lol.

If Armstrong's blood values are typical of the peloton, they are even more worthy of attention, because we're getting a rare glimpse here.

In addition, it would logically follow that those with all the biological passport data have a much clearer picture.

 

[ChrisE]

If Armstrong's blood values are typical of the peloton, they are even more worthy of attention, because we're getting a rare glimpse here.

In addition, it would logically follow that those with all the biological passport data have a much clearer picture.

Yet, why isn't any bandwidth devoted to all the others that don't post shyt about their blood values? All I see is a bunch of spewage about LA.

We go from "Contadope" when he was swapping turns with the Chicken climbing the Alps, to a bunch of quiet church mouses in here towards that "fraud". All because he is the anti-LA; LA was mean to poor little alberto putting who was putting out "grate pupkin" VAM numbers this last tour.

Go read my post on DPF in the feedback "signature" thread. Then, look in the mirror.

 

[workingclasshero]

Yet, why isn't any bandwidth devoted to all the others that don't post shyt about their blood values? All I see is a bunch of spewage about LA.

you either need to get your eyes tested or start reading the forum.

no one gets away from this forum, not tom danielson, not valverde, not rasmussen, not contador, not the schlecks, not borut bozic, not gustav larsson, not bradley wiggins

mark cavendish has a thread devoted to him coz his brother is trying to get rid of the plastic pre fix to his scouseness.

so seriously, no rider can feel safe in this clinic

lance armstrong is debated more than anyone else, nowt strange about that at all. as he is one of the few we have lots of data on, he has tested non-negative on seven occasions, he is a very strong character, is a tremendous story with the cancer, the foundation, the money making off that foundation, a comeback at 37/38.

plus the lance groupies keep posting misinformation, and correcting this takes a lot of the space on these forums, especially as there's a few around who have this as their hobby, spreading lies which portray armstrong in a good light but make no sense.

also, the bio passport is discussed by some very knowledgeable people as is other ways of detecting doping. you should get yourself onto some of those threads, you will find them most interesting if you are willing to open your eyes and realise not every post or thread is about lance armstrong

 

[Race Radio]

I remember a few days ago you giving props to illogical cranium for some post. I guess you turned sour when he fought back when he started getting attacked? The only person he attacked was RHital. Why the ban?

Anyway, I don't give a shyt about that so let's discuss this. Yeah, I think most dope. I think LA beat a doped peloton during his 7 straight. I think LA doped and still dopes. So what? Look at the effort here to prove it, and look at the thought here that he was not doped during the giro. So, there is some guess that a 38 year old off 3 years retirement finished 12th in a GT after a broken collarbone?

Get real, with either the charade or the venom. If he didn't dope, give him props. Putting down that performance just proves asshattery.

I see your point Chris. I do not care so much about Armstrong doping, as it a obvious he has/is. What I do not like are the clueless groupies who suspend rational thought when it comes to Wonderboy. The same groupies that praise Armstrong when he attacks slam Contador when he attacks. That Contador dopes is seen as a given, I have yet to see him develop a legion of clueless followers who post long dispelled myths as if they are fact. Armstong has many of these.

 

[Anonymous]

I remember a few days ago you giving props to illogical cranium for some post. I guess you turned sour when he fought back when he started getting attacked? The only person he attacked was RHital. Why the ban?

Anyway, I don't give a shyt about that so let's discuss this. Yeah, I think most dope. I think LA beat a doped peloton during his 7 straight. I think LA doped and still dopes. So what? Look at the effort here to prove it, and look at the thought here that he was not doped during the giro. So, there is some guess that a 38 year old off 3 years retirement finished 12th in a GT after a broken collarbone?

Get real, with either the charade or the venom. If he didn't dope, give him props. Putting down that performance just proves asshattery.

Really? That's it, just so what?

Why all the effort over the years to obscure his practice then? What to make of the "Most tested athlete" blather? Why the charade with Caitlin? Why the attempts at personal (Andreu, Bassons, Simeoni) destruction? Why the enforcement of the Omerta? Why the payoffs to the UCI? Why post blood values on his web-site that supposedly demonstrate his clean ethics? Why not just come out and admit what's going on? There are millions and millions of reasons why that will never happen... can we at least agree on that?

I view cycling not just as entertainment but human saga and endeavor. May the best cyclist win not just the one with the best "programme".

Doping (cheating) might be ok with you. I can only speak for myself here but it's not ok with me.

 

[ChrisE]

I see your point Chris. I do not care so much about Armstrong doping, as it a obvious he has/is. What I do not like are the clueless groupies who suspend rational thought when it comes to Wonderboy. The same groupies that praise Armstrong when he attacks slam Contador when he attacks. That Contador dopes is seen as a given, I have yet to see him develop a legion of clueless followers who post long dispelled myths as if they are fact. Armstong has many of these.

Only because this site is dominated by Americans, and LA is a hyped up figure in American society. Find a Spanish cycling website and there will probably be the AC zombies there as well, albeit Euros seem to be more in touch with what goes on than Americans.

 

[ChrisE]

Really? That's it, just so what?

Why all the effort over the years to obscure his practice then? What to make of the "Most tested athlete" blather? Why the charade with Caitlin? Why the attempts at personal (Andreu, Bassons, Simeoni) destruction? Why the enforcement of the Omerta? Why the payoffs to the UCI? Why post blood values on his web-site that supposedly demonstrate his clean ethics? Why not just come out and admit what's going on? There are millions and millions of reasons why that will never happen... can we at least agree on that?

I view cycling not just as entertainment but human saga and endeavor. May the best cyclist win not just the one with the best "programme".

Doping (cheating) might be ok with you. I can only speak for myself here but it's not ok with me.

Sorry. Please find where I said doping was OK. I drink alot so maybe I did and just forgot. IMO in a perfect world it is not OK. Cyclists that wish to be clean should be able to compete within the rules.

Look here (limited source), or go dig thru 1000's of posts on DPF and please post a link to prove that I have said otherwise. Good luck.

As for the other, name one current cyclist other than Millar who has been busted and has sung the song you crave above. Even Millar is mealy mouth at times. LA is a commodity, and there is more at stake here than a bicycle race. To sit here and toss feces towards him because he doesn't "own up" to something he accepted long ago, and has profitted from, is a little Monday morningish IMO. And, unrealistic. If you accepted something and profited from it, and effected so many from it in a positive manner, and it was generally accepted in your sport you would do it to. Sorry, if you claim otherwise I feel you are a liar. Hopefully I won't get banned for that like our other esteemed posters.

Caitlin was a stupid move, I agree. I have said as much elsewhere. I wouldn't have posted my blood values, and if I had a problem with anybody in the peloton causing issues with the status quo that I had accepted then I would have whipped their *** outside the TV camera range.

And, I don't buy the $ can buy the best program crap. Right, he had all the $ in 99 to win the his first. That right there blows that argument out of the water.

Yeah, so I stand by "so what".

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry. Please find where I said doping was OK. I drink alot so maybe I did and just forgot. IMO in a perfect world it is not OK. Cyclists that wish to be clean should be able to compete within the rules.

Look here (limited source), or go dig thru 1000's of posts on DPF and please post a link to prove that I have said otherwise. Good luck.

As for the other, name one current cyclist other than Millar who has been busted and has sung the song you crave above. Even Millar is mealy mouth at times. LA is a commodity, and there is more at stake here than a bicycle race. To sit here and toss feces towards him because he doesn't "own up" to something he accepted long ago, and has profitted from, is a little Monday morningish IMO. And, unrealistic. If you accepted something and profited from it, and effected so many from it in a positive manner, and it was generally accepted in your sport you would do it to. Sorry, if you claim otherwise I feel you are a liar. Hopefully I won't get banned for that like our other esteemed posters.

Caitlin was a stupid move, I agree. I have said as much elsewhere. I wouldn't have posted my blood values, and if I had a problem with anybody in the peloton causing issues with the status quo that I had accepted then I would have whipped their *** outside the TV camera range.

And, I don't buy the $ can buy the best program crap. Right, he had all the $ in 99 to win the his first. That right there blows that argument out of the water.

Yeah, so I stand by "so what".

LA had Ferrari so he had the best programme..

You have a cynical view of this and maybe I should too.

 

[Anonymous]

I hear what you are saying and I'm tempted to agree, but then TFF will post about the lying Lance and I'll be tempted to agree with him. I don't think most of the folks who are anti Lance would be nearly so much so, even leaving out the doping, if it were not for the extent of the propaganda campaign that he hides behind. The whole if you don't love Lance then you love cancer thing. He is like a mafia don, and lots of people embrace the lies that are Lance Armstrong. Worse they can't stop bringing them into every discussion on what is wrong in pro cycling. It is not misery it is pure old fashioned contempt.

Damn fine post.

 

[Anonymous]

Yet, why isn't any bandwidth devoted to all the others that don't post shyt about their blood values? All I see is a bunch of spewage about LA.

We go from "Contadope" when he was swapping turns with the Chicken climbing the Alps, to a bunch of quiet church mouses in here towards that "fraud". All because he is the anti-LA; LA was mean to poor little alberto putting who was putting out "grate pupkin" VAM numbers this last tour.

Go read my post on DPF in the feedback "signature" thread. Then, look in the mirror.

Obviously you don't read many of the posts here. And I have no desire to read your post anywhere. Look up the definition of "tool." I am guessing you didn't know someone stole your picture.

 

[Race Radio]

Only because this site is dominated by Americans, and LA is a hyped up figure in American society. Find a Spanish cycling website and there will probably be the AC zombies there as well, albeit Euros seem to be more in touch with what goes on than Americans.

I lived and raced in Spain for two years. I read the Spanish sites often. NOBODY thinks Contador is clean. They seldom bring it up as it is obvious. This is the same reason why you seldom hear Americans seldom question the cleanliness of the NFL, it is seen as a given that doping is part of the job.