Armstrong's numbers

[Race Radio]

First he changed some of his numbers when the Hct looked too high. Now it looks like Wonderboy doesn't like people questioning him and has taken his numbers down.

http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstrong/blog/tag/testing/

So much for "complete transparency"

 

[Anonymous]

First he changed some of his numbers when the Hct looked too high. Now it looks like Wonderboy doesn't like people questioning him and has taken his numbers down.

http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstrong/blog/tag/testing/

So much for "complete transparency"

ssdd to use a Lanceism. Not real surprising. He'll probably issue some lame press release attempting to explain why he decided to take the numbers down. At this stage it makes you wonder what he's thinking. I think actions like this make him look more and more like he's hiding something.

What ever happened to being tested every 3 days?

 

[pedaling squares]

He lost me when he promoted his open and transparent tests/results with Don Catlin, then failed to follow through. Then the changing numbers, now no numbers. Shocking.

 

[Ex-trackie]

Interesting. Is this the only place where he had posted his results or is there somewhere else he might still have the full list posted?

 

[Cerberus]

Interesting. Is this the only place where he had posted his results or is there somewhere else he might still have the full list posted?

He published them once, he can't unpublish them now. The Intertubes never forget: http://cdn-community2.livestrong.co...c981f7be-e46c-4245-aa9d-d61ae110a264.Full.jpg

 

[Mellow Velo]

I'm sorry, but I duplicated this news, on the other thread, before I saw this thread.

Not the first time he has "massaged" his figures.

A see another spike coming.
The relationship of Lance's figures to sockpuppets generated, suggests some serious dopes to be had.

 

[El Imbatido]

Sorry guys i don't get it. They are still posted on the site through the link that is posted. Or was there more numbers on top of the ones still on the site????

 

[Jonathan]

Sorry guys i don't get it. They are still posted on the site through the link that is posted. Or was there more numbers on top of the ones still on the site????

You mean the results from 5/7/09 and after are somewhere else on his site?

 

[Ex-trackie]

Sorry guys i don't get it. They are still posted on the site through the link that is posted. Or was there more numbers on top of the ones still on the site????

He removed the 15 test results from the summer season spanning the Giro and the Tour de France.

The reason is anyone's guess.

 

[El Imbatido]

He removed the 15 test results from the summer season spanning the Giro and the Tour de France.

The reason is anyone's guess.

Yeah, i finally figured it out. Melo gave two links in the "Armstrong Tour levels debated" thread that showed that he took down his results of tests from the tour. As much as i would like him and the entire peloton to be clean, i think that by taking them down shows he has something to hide.

You mean the results from 5/7/09 and after are somewhere else on his site?

No, sorry mate thats not what i ment. I didn't realise that he had all his tour numbers on his site then took them down. And then when i got on his site earlier and saw that there were some numbers there (which were actually his old ones form the Giro and earlier) i was like 'WTF are these guys on about'

 

[Jonathan]

He removed the 15 test results from the summer season spanning the Giro and the Tour de France.

The reason is anyone's guess.

The reason he published them in the first place was anyone's guess. I forgot who it was that posted a list of possible reasons for doing it; none of them seemed really adequate. But if he did try to retract some part of it, that makes the explanation the he got no or bad advice more likely.

If I were in his situation, the best thing to control the damage would be not to react to any debates about the results and leave them. It is clear the UCI will not sanction on the basis of these, so he can still say he never tested positive.

And who would disagree? Regardless of the best way to interpret such results, is there anyone who believes they should be regarded as an actual positive test, in an official sense?

 

[elapid]

The reason he published them in the first place was anyone's guess. I forgot who it was that posted a list of possible reasons for doing it; none of them seemed really adequate. But if he did try to retract some part of it, that makes the explanation the he got no or bad advice more likely.

If I were in his situation, the best thing to control the damage would be not to react to any debates about the results and leave them. It is clear the UCI will not sanction on the basis of these, so he can still say he never tested positive.

And who would disagree? Regardless of the best way to interpret such results, is there anyone who believes they should be regarded as an actual positive test, in an official sense?

When you look at Armstrong's reaction to Rasmussen's blood profile, I can understand why he posted his profile. Everything was within UCI limits so there was no evidence of doping. For a PR savvy person like Armstrong, I would have thought that he would have known everyone would be micro-dissecting his every move, especially his blood profile, so it is strange that he would release results which show strong evidence of doping. Maybe he doesn't care - the cycling fans that do not get sucked into his PR machine are not the ones contributing to LiveStrong or supporting RadioShack. As long as the BPCs of this world and the largely ignorant fans who have turned out in their millions this year to watch him at the TDU, Giro and TdF continue to believe his rubbish, then all is good in Lance's world.

 

[mektronic]

The OFF scores, HB z-scores and OFF z-scores are mostly calculated wrong as well. Here is the comparison list, orange are the correct values:

And here is the comparison between Livestrong.com published OFF score and true OFF score from 30/4/09 through to the Tour de France:

 

[Cobber]

Ha ha ha ha....... looks like Lance has gone full genius as well. Wow, just wow....

Well, I still had this on my computer from when I made a graph of his blood value fluctuations. So here it is!

 

[franciep10]

Rather jumping to conclusions, aren't we? If there was a policy to take down the numbers then why not take them all down? We don't know what's going on.

However, I do think LA would be bonkers to keep making his numbers public after the last few weeks. I would be mad as hell if I was him. Far better to keep them private like other top GC guys and stop people being able to smear you. It was a good experiment but unfortunately too much risk is involved - you can be riding totally clean and still be smeared as a cheat, which is the worse possible position for a rider. Wiggins should take down his as well - it's just not worth the hassle.

I bet that even if there was undeniable proof that he doped you would still come up with some silly excuse. Your argument could make sense but he took down a specific set of numbers ranging from the giro to the tour, and left his other values. Sure that might not scream guilt but it shows he's trying to cover something up. I'm happy that some athletes publish their numbers, to create a true sense of clarity and honesty, not just a pr game.

 

[Jonathan]

However, I do think LA would be bonkers to keep making his numbers public after the last few weeks.

The 'bonkers' part would be if Armstrong believes that when he removes some numbers from his website, they are no longer public. They're still as public as a few days ago, only now we know he is not happy with the fact that people are discussing them.

 

[Bala Verde]

Just to consolidate all the info in one thread, does someone have a link to the 'altered numbers' post. Or does someone have the before and after data at the time he changed some values?

 

[franciep10]

No if there was hard undeniable proof I would accept it. I even think he probably doped in 1999. But there is just too much doubt here for me. I think it's grossly unfair to convict someone on the current evidence.

Taking down the numbers doesn't necessarily show anything. Armstrong is not involved in the daily running of that site. We don't know what's going on - it could be something to do with all the abusive messages in the comments box below the numbers. There is no reason to keep some numbers up if there was a new policy to take them all down. Plus everybody knows these numbers are already out there, so what would be the point of taking them down?

Well that's good to hear at least I don't have to call you delusional on that subject. If armstrong says to take down the values they get taken down it's that simple. So are you saying that it so happens that some error or abusive messages gets those specific values taken down, while completely unrelated that scientist are suspicious of those values. Please tell me if I misunderstood, but if that's what you believe you are being delusional.

 

[Ex-trackie]

We don't know what's going on - it could be something to do with all the abusive messages in the comments box below the numbers.

The most recent comment in the comment box below the numbers is from June 12, 2009 at 1:50 PM .

Or at least the most recent remaining comment.

 

[Jonathan]

Niether Armstrong or the LiveStrong site are stupid enough to think people can no longer access these numbers simply because they have been removed from the site. They've already been downloaded around the world, including in Denmark. They know this - clearly that is not the reason.

Never assume that stupidity knows boundaries. I can see no other reason to remove the test results than regret about the debate they caused, and the misguided opinion that removing them could make it all just go away. Which boils down to basic stupidity.

 

[Jonathan]

I think you'd have to be pretty stupid yourself to believe they're that stupid.

As I said before, we're left with few other options. Armstrong must have initially thought releasing the test results was a good idea, and now he apparently believes releasing only some test results is an even better idea. That which can be factually proven is already pretty dumb. Therefore, I don't think any level of stupidity can be ruled out with him or his advisors, if they have been active in the matter.

 

[Cobber]

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!!!!!

Please do not derail the thread. Put him on ignore and go about your business. We all know that BPC makes ridiculous statements. That is why we all put him on ignore.

 

[Cobber]

Just to consolidate all the info in one thread, does someone have a link to the 'altered numbers' post. Or does someone have the before and after data at the time he changed some values?

Here it is:

Thread: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2811

Compare the 2/4/09 crit values on the two slides:

FIRST ONE

http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstrong/blog/tag/testing/

2nd ONE

http://www.livestrong.com/lance-arm...sting-results-to-be-posted-at-livestrong-com/

The numbers Lance is posting are not the real numbers. Maybe somebody told Lance you cant go from 39 to 45 without a blood refill so he changed it to 43. lol

Edit: Here is a fresh upload of the numbers before they were changed (in case this "disappears" from Livestrong.com)

 

[franciep10]

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!!!!!

Please do not derail the thread. Put him on ignore and go about your business. We all know that BPC makes ridiculous statements. That is why we all put him on ignore.

I agree with you he is probably a troll, but he isn't derailing the thread, the thread is about armstrong numbers and that's what we are discussing. I tried the ignore thing but I don't like it, so I choose to listen to like minded and opposite opinions.

 

[poupou]

Original publication

Then the last value was changed...